Lowering our Low Expectations

[Wanderer]

Drop the hide in a donation box if you still have it.

[Jameson]

....It will not get any better with more big racks running around unless of course you are in the crowd that wants to reduce the number of hunters that can buy a license and if that is really your goal then I guess I will have to disagree with that idea.

While I am not in the crowd that wants to, I am in the crowd that is willing to, and my goal isn't to reduce the number of hunters that can buy a hunting license. I want to not have any limits or seasons, but understand that it isn't 1492 anymore and we need to have adequate regulations for the times.

I guess I am not in the conversation though, as I am not in the crowd that wants to. They must be some of the few, too.

[HunterLee]

I don't think there is a need to limit the numbers of hunters, but limit pressure to reduce the kill.

I have looked on the DNR website to just see the increase of hunters up until now.

The biggest thing I see is that muzzleloading hunters was a pretty consistant number at 10,000 give or take, but now the last 5 years its around 60,000 hunters, but the harvest is roughly the same at roughly 7500, they didn't break down what they killed.

That in itself is alot of pressure deer don't need after getting blasted at during the regular season.

Archery has up ticked a little the last few years but the harvest is only slightly up.

Regular season is a little more difficult to look at but the only consistant chart I found was 1989 thru now with anywhere from just over 400,000 total license in 1989 and stayed under 500,000 until 2000. From 2002 until now its been from 540,000 to 645,000 total licenses granted it was the "glory" years of shooting does but we are now feeling it.

It always made me cringe during that time when people were shooting all those does, because a fair amount of them were "nub" bucks. That's even worse than shooting forks and such as the nubs were even more of an easy target.

With habitat loss and with more hunters than ever its going to take some type of management or deer and deer hunting will continue to fade. But then the worse it gets the less people will hunt. Its a cycle and for now we are on a downward trend in my eyes outside with a glimmer of hope in the APR zone.

[PurpleFloyd]

While I am not in the crowd that wants to, I am in the crowd that is willing to, and my goal isn't to reduce the number of hunters that can buy a hunting license. I want to not have any limits or seasons, but understand that it isn't 1492 anymore and we need to have adequate regulations for the times.

I guess I am not in the conversation though, as I am not in the crowd that wants to. They must be some of the few, too.

My guess is if you ask every hunter if they would be OK with rationing licenses if it meant they may go a year or two without being able to hunt much less harvest a deer even the APR guys would be few and far between to check the yes box.

[PurpleFloyd]

I don't think there is a need to limit the numbers of hunters, but limit pressure to reduce the kill.

I have looked on the DNR website to just see the increase of hunters up until now.

The biggest thing I see is that muzzleloading hunters was a pretty consistant number at 10,000 give or take, but now the last 5 years its around 60,000 hunters, but the harvest is roughly the same at roughly 7500, they didn't break down what they killed.

That in itself is alot of pressure deer don't need after getting blasted at during the regular season.

Archery has up ticked a little the last few years but the harvest is only slightly up.

Regular season is a little more difficult to look at but the only consistant chart I found was 1989 thru now with anywhere from just over 400,000 total license in 1989 and stayed under 500,000 until 2000. From 2002 until now its been from 540,000 to 645,000 total licenses granted it was the "glory" years of shooting does but we are now feeling it.

It always made me cringe during that time when people were shooting all those does, because a fair amount of them were "nub" bucks. That's even worse than shooting forks and such as the nubs were even more of an easy target.

With habitat loss and with more hunters than ever its going to take some type of management or deer and deer hunting will continue to fade. But then the worse it gets the less people will hunt. Its a cycle and for now we are on a downward trend in my eyes outside with a glimmer of hope in the APR zone.

Supply and demand will work. If the number of hunters increases and the supply of deer decreases then the hunters numbers will fall back as their odds of harvesting a deer drop.A good example is the pheasant boom in the mid 90's. When the population exploded for a few year we all of a sudden had a surge in hunters coming here from all over the state and especially the metro to fill their bags because you could go out and get a limit in a few hours. Then a few bad winters and springs and the population crashed and now it is rare to see a shiny new twin cities Suburban decked out in Cabelas gear driving around looking for a place to hunt. they don't want to work that hard for a limit.

Deer hunting is much the same. When word gets out that there is a trophy buck in a particular area, especially public land, there is a surge of hunters all trying to put him on the wall. If you want lower pressure, having more big deer around isn't going to do it in a state with lots of public land unless you implement quotas. If you want lots of big deer and no DNR quotas then get on board with selling the public land and putting it in private hands and then be prepared to open your wallet. Wide.

[JIvers]

Its a cycle and for now we are on a downward trend in my eyes outside with a glimmer of hope in the APR zone.

I just want to add that there is no shortage of deer in Zone 3.

Whatever else else may or may not need to be tweaked in the southeast corner of the state, the overall deer numbers there are fine.

[Wanderer]

I wish that were still the case on the properties we hunt in SEMN.

I just talked to landowners and other hunters again last night and had a little light shed on another population decline factor. Through the archery season I've been really surprised at our way lower than average deer sightings after opening weekend plus the overall lack of fresh sign. Originally I've been thinking the drawn out winter and high coyote population could be the culprits, not just the lull of activity we usually see in October. The overall population has been trending significantly downward for the past several seasons to boot.

Come to find out there is a landowner of a smallish piece of property who has been holding LARGE group, A season hunts on his land but also flooding the surrounding state land that's wedged in between the private parcels. This area is one of the most travelled deer corridors on the properties as it bridges the gap between the most prime feeding and bedding areas. They've been absolutely POUNDING the deer for the past few years. That info had credibility in my eyes as I recalled my last still hunt through the state parcel and saw lots of gut piles laying about and no deer.

It's really unfortunate how that extreme pressure appears to have ruined a once prolific deer area.

[HunterLee]

Thats my point, the SE corner has it all, good numbers and decent age structure. But they have been managing the deer in that area before APR to some extent and thats why they have deer.

Private land owners can manage their own land to some extent the perham area is a good example I forget what they call themselves but they have a big group of dedicated landowners and let them grow and shot does.

Public areas get hammered both by people and by shooting whatever they see. A little guidence would go a along ways

[BLACKJACK]

On the way into work this morning I was watching the sky get lighter to the east and was wishing I was in a deer stand!!! Love that anticipation as it gets light, is that blob over there a deer?? And then seeing a nice sunrise.

Just thought I'd throw out a positive post!!!

[PropsterII]

To each his own, but it slays me how some people want to keep the size of the deer and the age structure of the herd down so that we don't get any further interest in hunting them. What have we come to.

[Bear55]

To comment on the original post, I think (like many others) deer hunting is what you make of it. Not hard at all to get a deer if you put in the effort and time. If you only hunt a few days in the same old stand year after year you are depending more on luck than anything else. DNR has to manage for the masses and they should. We all loved those boom years and I think the DNR understands that and hopefully they are working to build the population up in most areas. I also think they have a much better understanding of the herd than they did 15-20 years ago. Things will pick up again but it might take more time than we had hoped. Your options are to wait until herd booms again and deer are running around everywhere or you can hunt a little harder and shoot a deer.

[SmellEsox]

Good point PropsterII. Lets keep hunting mediocre at best so no one wants to come here and hunt.

[SmellEsox]

[Note from admin: Your post has been edited. Please read forum policy before posting again. Thank you.]

This pretty much sums it up.

[PurpleFloyd]

We had two of the best seasons of the 35 or so years I have hunted in the last 2 years and we have seen a trend of more deer over the past decade along with warmer temps to boot so I am having a hard time understanding what is so poor about the hunting. In the photo section here and in the local papers they have pictures of some of the biggest deer I have seen in my hunting career. We had bigger deer running around that made it through the season and they will be bigger next year.

The sun is shining today, the birds are singing and I saw a few very nice Roosters fly in front of me on the way to Mankato today. What was the problem again? Things are as good as they have ever been.

[SmellEsox]

Maybe in your world PurpleFloyd. Other areas of the state are awful.

[Gordie]

Don't expect the best of things all the time and you'll be surprised with the out come each and every time.

So except what is given to you and be happy.

[flipper]

Maybe in your world PurpleFloyd. Other areas of the state are awful.

Yup, I'm quite sure one's personal viewpoint is directly affected by where they happen to be hunting and what they have seen/shot. Hunting success in any given area runs in cycles just like fishing does on most lakes. I appreciate Gordie's viewpoint, we should all just be happy to be out there, success can be measured in more ways than meat in the freezer and horns on the wall. Be Happy.

[DaveT]

Don't expect the best of things all the time and you'll be surprised with the out come each and every time.

So accept what is given to you and be happy.

So in other words, "lower your already low expectations"? Sounds like a recipe for happiness to me, think of how life changing this could be. "She only cheated on me with 6 of my friends but I expected it to be a dozen. I think I'm gonna keep her!"

Seriously, I just returned from another Kansas hunt where I saw ten bucks a day, mostly 1 and 2 year olds but the occasional mature buck. I can't get excited to hunt MN anymore and the day is coming where I will stop hunting here altogether. There is simply too much pressure in this state and the DNR refuses to do anything to alleviate the problem. They create more and longer seasons which makes you think there's more opportunity to kill a deer. In reality, the added pressure just makes you hunt longer and harder to kill the same forkhorn it used to take you a day and a half to kill.

[Jaspernuts]

And how should the DNR "alleviate" the problem of too much pressure? Restrict liscenses? You can only hunt every other year? I think the DNR does just fine with the enormous amount of hunters we have. Deer hunting is pretty good if you ask me. But Im just a meat hunter, what do I know.

[PurpleFloyd]

Maybe in your world PurpleFloyd. Other areas of the state are awful.

Could be. then again that is my point. Just because things might not be good in your area don't try to force your solutions to your area on the rest of the state. But really- what parts are awful that is directly contributed to the hunting operating under the same practices that have been used for many decades? If it is the Wolf zone then go after the wolves as the problem and not the fellow hunters.

[TruthWalleyes]

+1 Gordie

I kind of feel bad for those of you that think so poorly of our deer hunting when i know so many that are very happy to be out hunting deer each year.

In 4 days of hunting this year, 3 in se mn and 45minutes in sw mn I've seen over 40 deer. i can't complain one bit. heck the 45 minutes that i hunted in a sw mn lottery zone i saw 17 deer.

guys, therez tons of public land over there too, and they all hold deer.

its been a great season for me, and my friends n family so far.

[PurpleFloyd]

Don't expect the best of things all the time and you'll be surprised with the out come each and every time.

So except what is given to you and be happy.

+1

[PurpleFloyd]

So in other words, "lower your already low expectations"? Sounds like a recipe for happiness to me, think of how life changing this could be. "She only cheated on me with 6 of my friends but I expected it to be a dozen. I think I'm gonna keep her!"

Seriously, I just returned from another Kansas hunt where I saw ten bucks a day, mostly 1 and 2 year olds but the occasional mature buck. I can't get excited to hunt MN anymore and the day is coming where I will stop hunting here altogether. There is simply too much pressure in this state and the DNR refuses to do anything to alleviate the problem. They create more and longer seasons which makes you think there's more opportunity to kill a deer. In reality, the added pressure just makes you hunt longer and harder to kill the same forkhorn it used to take you a day and a half to kill.

What is the population of Kansas vs Minnesota? Is it identical? Is this public or private land?

[DaveT]

There's a hundred of ways to alleviate pressure, all of them involve limiting either your bag limit or time afield. There was a time when seasons were shorter, there were less antlerless tags, less special hunts, and in my opinion, a lot more deer and more mature bucks as well.

PF, it's private land and there is nowhere near the hunting pressure in KS as here. However, if KS had their rifle season during the rut and let people party hunt I expect our hunting would get much, much worse.

I don't expect MN to become Iowa, I just want it to be as good as it used to be as recently as 10 years ago, before the DNR declared war on the deer herd with ridiculously liberal antlerless tags and a bunch of new seasons and hunts. There is nowhere for a deer to hide between SEP and JAN in this state anymore.

[Jaspernuts]

I will agree with you on this Dave. Going from a 2 day season down here to 10 days does seem aggressive. Are the harvests higher? Not sure. Everybody was out for the 2 day season pushing them everywhere. Now they don't get pushed as much.

[PurpleFloyd]

I don't expect MN to become Iowa, I just want it to be as good as it used to be as recently as 10 years ago, before the DNR declared war on the deer herd with ridiculously liberal antlerless tags and a bunch of new seasons and hunts. There is nowhere for a deer to hide between SEP and JAN in this state anymore.

10 years ago we harvested 290,000 deer and in 2011 we harvested 192,000 deer and I don't know what this year looks like but my guess is it is not more than and probably lower than in 2003. In 2003 we sold 648k licenses and this year 597k.

Just sayin......

[hockeybc69]

Whats your point PF?

So the deer harvest is down 100k since roughly 10 years ago. And??

[Gordie]

So in other words, "lower your already low expectations"? Sounds like a recipe for happiness to me, think of how life changing this could be. "She only cheated on me with 6 of my friends but I expected it to be a dozen. I think I'm gonna keep her!"

Seriously, I just returned from another Kansas hunt where I saw ten bucks a day, mostly 1 and 2 year olds but the occasional mature buck. I can't get excited to hunt MN anymore and the day is coming where I will stop hunting here altogether. There is simply too much pressure in this state and the DNR refuses to do anything to alleviate the problem. They create more and longer seasons which makes you think there's more opportunity to kill a deer. In reality, the added pressure just makes you hunt longer and harder to kill the same forkhorn it used to take you a day and a half to kill.

If you always look at things for the bad or in a bad way you will never know when the good is in front of you.

Biggest problem today is not the population of deer, its the HYPE that these media driven hunting shows make out every hunt to be for the "MONSTER BUCK", and how it seems that they all shoot them. So we should too. $ $ $ is what's its about its not the hunt anymore or is hunt for the $....

Keep painting your picture black DaveT and soon enough the deer in the other state you hunt will not be good enough also.

[harvey lee]

The last 2 years in Mn for me archry hunting were the best two in many years f me. Last fall, I took a nice 10 and I hunted for 20 minutes.

This fall, I hunted for 4 days, about 2 hours each sit and saw deer everytime out.I shot one the last day and thought, boy, this has sure been good for me archery hunting the past 2 seasons in Minnesota

If Mn gets a bit better,I will quit going to North Dakota buying those spendy licenses and just hunt in my back yard.

I do go out and look for sign before the season and from time to time, I change areas I hunt but I am more than happy with my results the past 2 years.

NO complaints here.

[Old Dewjabber]

Why do some of you consistently have to keep throwing little pot shots at anyone that is for seeing bigger racks? Every post by a couple of you has some snide remark in it about antlers, APR, or trophy hunting. I just don't get it.