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Manziel Debate


DrJuice1980

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Big Dave must be going down with no hands seeing that he's still able to type. Or maybe he's giving sign language to LMIT for his posts. It has to be one of them. They def are at the same party, drinking the same kool aid for a while now. Big Dave is still hanging on to college stats even thou JM is a backup to one of the leagues bottom feeder QBs. Sad. I wonder why those college stats didn't get him drafted in the top 10 or why they didn't "earn" him a starter role... But who am I to judge ol high and mighty "Big" Dave. Don't take the bait Captain, that's all he has.

All LMIT has in his arguement is the pixilated picture defense, as if he was unrecognizable. I know I know, you thought the Bigfoot comparison was genius, it got kinda lame after you repeated it many times. You didn't even rinse, you just repeated...

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One would surely think the best college QB stats mean something in the pros, just ask Tim Tebow!

"Gurgle Gurgle, Slurp Slurp"

Did you say something Big Dave?

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All LMIT has in his arguement is the pixilated picture defense, as if he was unrecognizable.

And using a crummy picture to call the subject a doper is acceptable? Come on. I guess you're a bigger mouth breather than I had originally thought.

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One would surely think the best college QB stats mean something in the pros, just ask Tim Tebow!

If you think Tim Tebow's college stats are anything close to JF's stats that explains your ignorance on this subject.

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I didn't say because of his stats. Because of his style of play and his mechanics. I don't think those will translate to NFL any better than Tebows did.

Find me anyone who ever considered Tim Tebow a great "passing" QB. You and Juice obviously never watch any SEC football. Carry on with your Mighty Gopher fascination, I prefer to follow the "big leagues" of college football.

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Find me anyone who ever considered Tim Tebow a great "passing" QB. You and Juice obviously never watch any SEC football. Carry on with your Mighty Gopher fascination, I prefer to follow the "big leagues" of college football.

did tebow play for the gophers? I thought he played for a team in the "big leagues" of college football? My bad.

Yeah their stats don't compare at all. Almost identical completion percentage and yards per attempt. Comparable passing and rushing TDs. The sample size is smaller with Manziel and tebow had on avg fewer pass attempts but otherwise numbers are comparable.

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did tebow play for the gophers? I thought he played for a team in the "big leagues" of college football? My bad.

Yeah their stats don't compare at all. Almost identical completion percentage and yards per attempt. Comparable passing and rushing TDs. The sample size is smaller with Manziel and tebow had on avg fewer pass attempts but otherwise numbers are comparable.

No, Tebow did not play for the Goofers. That must be why you know nothing about his college career.

Comparable stats? What year did Tebow have over 4,000 yards passing?

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So then what does the gophers have to do with this? Nothing.

Tebow didn't throw over 4000, but he had 3300 and 2800 (twice) on roughly 100 fewer attempts each season. If the throws 100 more times at an avg of 6.3 per completion then they are neck and neck.

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So then what does the gophers have to do with this? Nothing.

Tebow didn't throw over 4000, but he had 3300 and 2800 (twice) on roughly 100 fewer attempts each season. If the throws 100 more times at an avg of 6.3 per completion then they are neck and neck.

Should I type s-l-o-w-e-r so you can understand? I brought up the Goofers because obviously that is the only college team you follow because you certainly don't know anything about the SEC.

Yeah JM and TTs stats are the same except for the extra 1000 yards that JM threw for as only a college sophomore. JM was only about 1400 yards shy of Tebow's total passing stats while only playing for 2 years instead of Tebow's 4. Yeah, the stats are the same crazy

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Sure when you completely ignore the fact that he had 100 more attempts per season your logic makes perfect sense.

Completion %, yards per attempt, TD rushing, TD passing, avg rush are all relatively close.

But OK, I understand you just use the stats that matter to your argument and conveniently ignore the rest.

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Sure when you completely ignore the fact that he had 100 more attempts per season your logic makes perfect sense.

Completion %, yards per attempt, TD rushing, TD passing, avg rush are all relatively close.

But OK, I understand you just use the stats that matter to your argument and conveniently ignore the rest.

Ever think there is a reason one QB has more attempts than another? Ponder must be just as good as Payton Manning, he just didn't get as many attempts. crazy

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The gators were a rush first offense? Manziel had no running back?

And why do you suppose they had a rush first offense? Was it because they had the best passing QB in college football? I doubt it.

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Why did JM pass the ball so much? Because he had all american wide receivers and no RB? I believe so.

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Meanwhile in Cleveland...

full-593-47336-20140712_152809.jpg

The Luverne and Shirley shirt puts that over the top.

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Sure when you completely ignore the fact that he had 100 more attempts per season your logic makes perfect sense.

Completion %, yards per attempt, TD rushing, TD passing, avg rush are all relatively close.

But OK, I understand you just use the stats that matter to your argument and conveniently ignore the rest.

So, just to be fair, what does this say for Bridgewater's career potential in the NFL? Because if you are looking at stats to justify what is going to happen, Bridgewater has nearly identical stats to Brian Brohm, who also went to Louisville so he played for the same team against the same level of competition.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/brian-brohm-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/teddy-bridgewater-1.html

I guess we better start looking for the next guy.

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Why did JM pass the ball so much? Because he had all american wide receivers and no RB? I believe so.

Or, maybe because he was the best qb in the country? Why do you suppose Payton manning passes the ball so much?

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Gee Big Dave, one would think Manziel should've been taken much higher like Peyton and maybe one would also think that if his greatness was so great he wouldn't be backing up a bottom feeder QB. You must not be able to look beyond the stat line. Common error for the simple minded.

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Exactly Juice. If he was the best qb in college he would have been drafted that way.

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I guess we'll see if he's better than Bridgewater. BTW isn't HE a 3rd stringer backing up 2 bottom feeder QBs right now too?

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No big Dave its not a we'll see. If he was the best qb in college he would have been drafted that way. You said it. Not me. Or is it the fact that best qb in college means absolutely nothing to a pro game? If so maybe you are getting wiser.

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Convenient of you to switch to something else, I guess instead of backpedaling you prefer the side-step. Bridgewater is a different forum.

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Proof that LMT and Big Dave are the same person.

BTW the beauty of not sniffing someone's jock like you and your conjoined twin lmit have of JM is that when they flop you don't have to own up to it.

JM is the kindling his flames are about to come.

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Big Dave lost the argument about the stat thing months ago when he said something along the lines of Luck can't hold Johnnys jock as a QB just check their college stats.

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Big Dave lost the argument about the stat thing months ago when he said something along the lines of Luck can't hold Johnnys jock as a QB just check their college stats.

crazy :-)
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Quote:
Johnny Manziel Must Be Browns' Starting QB in Week 1

By Chris Roling , Featured Columnist Jul 11, 2014

Let's put the "Football" back in "Johnny Football" for a moment, no?

Johnny Manziel, at 21 years of age and the No. 22 overall pick in the 2014 draft, is the player who must waltz through the tunnel at Heinz Field Week 1 as the Cleveland Browns' starter.

Not Brian Hoyer, and certainly not Tyler Thigpen or Connor Shaw. Manziel, the guy named after, well, the sport.

A star since he was a teenager, birthed from a rich Texas family and an ungodly amount of football talent, Manziel is an international sensation and—gasp—a kid. A rich kid who has managed to transcend traditional tabloid junk stuff like TMZ to the point of being borderline stalked wherever he goes.

While the media focuses on his off-field escapades that are really nothing more than a 21-year-old kid being a 21-year-old kid—while ignoring work he does like mentoring young quarterbacks at the Elite 11—Manziel has been hard at work perfecting his craft when not acting like a normal human being.

Which is what it is. Well, Manziel's not a normal human, so his night's out are going to be a little more extravagant. Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com has a pertinent quote from the man himself:

I don't think I'm doing anything wrong. I'm going out. Everybody goes out on the weekends and enjoys their life and lives their life and just for them, they don't have people that when they walk into a place pull out their phones and all they want to do is follow me around and record everything, so my situation is unique and different and now more than ever I've seen that it's an every weekend thing wherever I'm at, whether it's here in Cleveland on a weekend, or in Dallas or anywhere on a weekend people want to record what I'm doing because they think it's a story.

He's not wrong, and until the results on the field suggest otherwise, Manziel can live life however he wants.

On the field, there is no denying he has what it takes to be the starter right away, and that has to be preferable for Mike Pettine and Co. in an era where rookie signal-callers are routinely thrown to the wolves.

The situation, of course, is quite dire in Cleveland. When Miles Austin and Nate Burleson are the No. 1 targets at wideout, any quarterback will struggle.

But it's better to let Manziel go out there and give the Browns the best chance to win right away than to hope beyond hope that Hoyer can be the starter in the interim. If the franchise was that in love with what the veteran had to offer pre-knee shredding, Manziel wouldn't be in town in the first place.

Per Aditi Kinkhabwala of NFL.com, Pettine has even said Hoyer's lead is not "insurmountable," a smart stance for a head coach who just potentially lost his greatest weapon, per Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk, and has a veteran under center who has not proved to be anything more than a flash in the pan through 192 career pass attempts.

Manziel can, at the very least, improvise on the field and use his escapability to give the Browns a fighting chance. His pairing with offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan, who helped get the most out of a rookie Robert Griffin III, should prove nothing but fruitful right away (Terrance West, coincidentally, can be quite the Alfred Morris in time).

USA TODAY Sports

After all, should Hoyer go out and stumble, the pressure to bring on Manziel from fans and media will resemble a riot. That's not to suggest a professional coaching staff should be swayed by the wants of a fanbase, but better to avoid a combustible situation that can negatively impact the finances of a franchise, especially when, on paper, they might just have a point.

Should Manziel start Week 1?

Yes

No

SUBMIT VOTE vote to see results

If Manziel struggles and does not seem focused on the task at hand during training camp, then the Browns have a serious issue. But there's nothing to suggest either of those will be the case.

"I want to play. That's what anybody wants to do. Anybody that's been a starter in the past, and been playing, they want to play," he said, per Kinkhabwala. "To say I don't want to be the starter, that would be ridiculous. I absolutely want to start, that's my goal. Hopefully I can achieve that."

Were this another franchise with a rookie quarterback, like say the Minnesota Vikings, a staff that can ride Matt Cassel and Adrian Peterson for a year, then this would be a different conversation entirely.

But this is Cleveland, a dire situation that calls for somewhat extreme measures. That means Manziel needs to be out there from Day 1, and with any luck, he'll come out with a major chip on his shoulder as a reaction to all of the scrutiny and prove the globe wrong.

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