Jump to content
  • GUESTS

    If You  want access  to member only forums on FM, You will need to Sign-in or  Sign-Up now .

    This box will disappear once you are signed in as a member.

Manziel Debate


DrJuice1980

Recommended Posts

Wouldn't it be a Prototype because it's successful?

Brees and Russell Wilson fit that prototype? Just to name a few.

Nope.

Were/are they successful?

Yep.

Manziel has the wanna-be wonks stymied and it frustrates them to no end. I love it. grin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 1.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Big Dave2

    181

  • DrJuice1980

    176

  • CaptainMusky

    173

  • LMITOUT

    135

Well height a plays little bit into prototypical but by no means does it define it.

Weak.

Ps, Brees is still legit. Where you got "were" from I do not know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would think breaking that "mold" would be beyond the risk of what the Vikes want, or any team in that matter with a top pick.

But yet someone is definitely going to go against YOUR advise and pick him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Someone always defies logic and reason bigdave. Some are just busts. Did people think Leaf, Russell, etc were going to be flops? Maybe but someone still gave them the #1 pick. Its inevitable. Some enjoy the challenge of proving others wrong, others hit a home run and some just flat out screw the pooch. There will be plenty of these picks this year.

I'm not convinced that manziel will be a franchise qb. I'm also not convinced clowney will be the beast his measureables make it look to be.

We will see that's what makes this entertaining.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well height a plays little bit into prototypical but by no means does it define it.

So scratch stats off your list.

And scratch height off your list.

What do you have left?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most of guys who ended up being bust high draft picks had enough talent and athletic ability to make it in the league, but not the drive and the determination to be great.

Personally, I think Manziel has that drive. Yes, there will be an adjustment period and he'll take his lumps early on, but he will learn from it and work hard to improve. He's got a lot of people to prove wrong...

Jamarcus Russell was lazy and could barely keep himself in playing shape after he got his big pay day. Bryant McKinnie is the same way. Elite size and athletic ability (which barely keeps him in the league) but no drive to be tops at his position.

Peyton Manning isn't great because he's mobile or has a big arm, he's great because he works harder and prepares more than everyone else on the field.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree manziel appears to have the drive but will the drive be funneled toward the right things?

Clowney I think is definitely concern merely because of his work ethic. You cannot dispute manziels just all the distractions which those have killed many careers. Pick your poison.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So scratch stats off your list.

And scratch height off your list.

What do you have left?

Playing under control and not being selfish would be a pretty good start. Wouldn't you agree?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Think Manziel will have some success along the lines of a Vick or Flutie who makes the hilights but isn't going to carry a team to a title unless he ends up in a situation like Wilson where he's got a surrounding cast of teammates and he doesn't need to carry the team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Superbowl winning QBs and where they were drafted.

SB 48: Russel Wilson; 75th

SB 47: Joe Flacco; 18th

SB 46: Eil Manning; 1st

SB 45: Aaron Rodgers; 24th

SB 44: Drew Brees; 33rd

SB 43: Ben Rothlisberger; 11th

SB 42: Eli Manning; 1st

SB 41: Peyton Manning; 1st

SB 40: Ben Rothlisberger; 11th

SB 39: Tom Brady; 199th

SB 38: Tom Brady; 199th

SB 37: Brad Johnson; 227th

SB 36: Tom Brady; 199th

SB 35: Trent Dilfer; 6th

SB 34: Kurt Warner; undrafted

SB 33: John Elway; 1st

9 of the last 15 drafted in the first round. No real point, just FYI.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Superbowl winning QBs and where they were drafted.

SB 48: Russel Wilson; 75th

SB 47: Joe Flacco; 18th

SB 46: Eil Manning; 1st

SB 45: Aaron Rodgers; 24th

SB 44: Drew Brees; 33rd

SB 43: Ben Rothlisberger; 11th

SB 42: Eli Manning; 1st

SB 41: Peyton Manning; 1st

SB 40: Ben Rothlisberger; 11th

SB 39: Tom Brady; 199th

SB 38: Tom Brady; 199th

SB 37: Brad Johnson; 227th

SB 36: Tom Brady; 199th

SB 35: Trent Dilfer; 6th

SB 34: Kurt Warner; undrafted

SB 33: John Elway; 1st

9 of the last 15 drafted in the first round. No real point, just FYI.

And not a single one of them had better college stats than Johnny Football.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote:
A couple of weeks ago, we detailed how teams around the league feel that two of the top quarterback prospects, Teddy Bridgewater and Johnny Manziel, could be facing a potential draft-day free fall. In following up with some of the quarterback-needy teams picking in the top 10, three of them have Fresno State quarterback Derek Carr as their second-rated quarterback behind Central Florida's Blake Bortles. The common media and fan projection is that Carr is the fourth-rated quarterback and a late first-round or early second-round pick, but at least three NFL teams aren't in agreement with the consensus opinion.

The reason that Carr is being rated second is that teams feel he is the most polished passer in the draft. Two of the teams told us that Carr is the best passer of the draft class, while Bortles presents the most athletic upside. A number of teams have varying doubts about Manziel and Bridgewater as pro prospects and are lukewarm on them as players. They feel as though a late first-round or second-round pick would be more appropriate for Manziel and Bridgewater.

One NFC team picking in the 20s told us that they expect the Minnesota Vikings to take Carr with the eighth-overall pick, unless he is selected by the Raiders at No. 5 overall.

Looks like we are trading up to take Tajh Boyd.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Superbowl winning QBs and where they were drafted.

SB 48: Russel Wilson; 75th

SB 47: Joe Flacco; 18th

SB 46: Eil Manning; 1st

SB 45: Aaron Rodgers; 24th

SB 44: Drew Brees; 33rd

SB 43: Ben Rothlisberger; 11th

SB 42: Eli Manning; 1st

SB 41: Peyton Manning; 1st

SB 40: Ben Rothlisberger; 11th

SB 39: Tom Brady; 199th

SB 38: Tom Brady; 199th

SB 37: Brad Johnson; 227th

SB 36: Tom Brady; 199th

SB 35: Trent Dilfer; 6th

SB 34: Kurt Warner; undrafted

SB 33: John Elway; 1st

9 of the last 15 drafted in the first round. No real point, just FYI.

7 out of 12, really, since there are repeat winners. And Brees was taken at the top of Rd 2, so effectively 2/3 of em. Yeah, one can pray that a late round flier turns into a franchise QB, but in reality that only happens once in a generation in the modern NFL. It's a QB-driven league, period

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Problem is picking the right one...there have been a few 1st round busts and mediocres thru the years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Problem is picking the right one...there have been a few 1st round busts and mediocres thru the years.

At least it wont be so bad as if we were picking 1 2 or 3. Then to draft a guy and have him bust it hurts a lot more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would be happy with Manziel, Bortles, or Carr. In that order.

You meant Bortles, Carr, Manziel.

at least its not Blunder, T-junk, McNothing

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bortles screams "bust" to me...just doesn't do it for me. What makes Bortles a better QB than Murray, Mettenberger, or McCarron? At least the three M's played in the SEC against the best defenses in the country week in and week out.

Johnny Football or Bridgewater I could live with in the 1st...I'd wait until round 2 or later on the rest.

I would love to see the Vikes pick up Murray in the 3rd...let him heal and learn...and draft two defensive studs in Round 1 and 2.

I still wouldn't pass on Manziel or Bridgewater if they were there at 8 though....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hate to say it but Bridgwater I think will slip into the late first round, or second round. I just dont see him amounting to more then TJack.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If we're ranking based on college stats, it's tough to not have Carr ranked high. He had 5000 yards and 50 td passes this past season on 659 pass attempts.

He didn't play against the best teams, but neither did Bortles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would love to see the Vikes pick up Murray in the 3rd...let him heal and learn...and draft two defensive studs in Round 1 and 2.

I still wouldn't pass on Manziel or Bridgewater if they were there at 8 though....

I am kinda thinkin Murray might be there in the early fourth yet. Wouldnt it be funny if the Vikes got him. Him and Ponder could start their own reality TV show because Murray's GF is Ponder's ex.

She must have saw more in Murray than she did in Blunder and that's why she dumped him. Maybe we should be asking her for a scouting report since our guys blew it on Blunder.

I am not opposed to taking two QBs at all. We need to get rid of Blunder next year and if we have two this year we could have a nice back up and get rid of Cassel and Blunder next year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote:

NFL Network's Albert Breer reports Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel scored a 32 on the Wonderlic exam, while Louisville's Teddy Bridgewater scored a 20.

Blake Bortles scored 28. There is no correlation between Wonderlic scores and NFL success, and we're not even convinced they factor much into NFL teams' evaluations anymore, but people always seem to be interested in them. For some perspective, Andrew Luck scored a 37 before the 2012 draft. Geno Smith scored a 24 last year. Blaine Gabbert scored 42. Christian Ponder scored 35. Colin Kaepernick scored 37, and Ben Roethlisberger scored a 25.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lets see

Scored highest on the wonderlick- check

Plays in a big conference- Check

Passed for Huge yards against big teams- Check

Has great passer rating in a big conference- check!

Scored many passing TD's against some of the best college defenses- Check

Is a good on the field leader- Check

Has the drive to win- Check

Has many NFL scouts drooling over him- Check

Has the support of Drjuice- oops, not this one

Looks like JM checks out with all of the important things an NFL QB needs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If ponder scored a 35 on that wonderlik scale whatever that is, then either that scale us useless or this draft is hurting big time for qbs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well having a nice score doesn't make up for having a noodle arm and happy feet. Blunder has always been smart but that alone doesn't cut it. We were hoping his noodle arm was because of a past injury and he'd get over his happy feet but looks like neither has happened.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lets see

Scored highest on the wonderlick- check

Plays in a big conference- Check

Passed for Huge yards against big teams- Check

Has great passer rating in a big conference- check!

Scored many passing TD's against some of the best college defenses- Check

Is a good on the field leader- Check

Has the drive to win- Check

Has many NFL scouts drooling over him- Check

Has the support of Drjuice- oops, not this one

Looks like JM checks out with all of the important things an NFL QB needs.

Yeah but he's about an inch too short.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just hope that not too many folks are pinning their hopes on the fact that Wilson has a ring because he's not tall or that the hawks would not have won this year without him. Let's face it; there are quite a few nfl qbs out there right now who would be celebrating the title if they wore a hawks uniform this past season. Not saying he isn't decent qb but he isn't reason they are sb champs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree 100%...Wilson IS the real deal though. He's just going to keep getting better and better....

The key to Wilson's success is he landed with a team and COACH who let him be who he is...they didn't try to "change" him.

That's why I think the Jags take JF at #3...Gus Bradley is smart enough to do the same with him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just hope that not too many folks are pinning their hopes on the fact that Wilson has a ring because he's not tall or that the hawks would not have won this year without him. Let's face it; there are quite a few nfl qbs out there right now who would be celebrating the title if they wore a hawks uniform this past season. Not saying he isn't decent qb but he isn't reason they are sb champs.

I hear that, T-Junk probably could of started for the SeaChickens this season and won it all (ok that might be pushing it). That just goes to show what a strong running game and mean defense can do.

I think Wilson would just be another middle of the pack type QB playing with a different squad. His game fits nicely for what they want to do though, he don't make many dumb mistakes and pulls out a nice play here and there when needed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Your Responses - Share & Have Fun :)

    • Brianf.
      I'm not there, so I can't tell exactly what's going on but it looks like a large area of open water developed in the last day with all of the heavy snow on the east side of wake em up Narrows. These two photos are from my Ring Camera facing north towards Niles Point.  You can see what happened with all of snow that fell in the last three days, though the open water could have been wind driven. Hard to say. .  
    • SkunkedAgain
      Black Bay had great ice before but a few spots near rockpiles where there were spots of open water. It looks like the weight of the snow has created a little lake in the middle of the bay.  
    • LakeofthewoodsMN
      On the south end...   Thanks to some cold spring weather, ice fishing continues strong for those still ice fishing.  The bite remains very good.  Most resorts have pulled their fish houses off for the year, however, some still have fish houses out and others are allowing ATV and side by sides.  Check social media or call ahead to your favorite resort for specifics. Reports this week for walleyes and saugers remain excellent.   A nice mix of jumbo perch, pike, eelpout, and an occasional crappie, tullibee or sturgeon being reported by anglers. Jigging one line and using a live minnow on the second line is the way to go.  Green, glow red, pink and gold were good colors this week.     Monster pike are on a tear!  Good number of pike, some reaching over 45 inches long, being caught using tip ups with live suckers or dead bait such as smelt and herring in 8 - 14' of water.   As always, work through a resort or outfitter for ice road conditions.  Safety first always. Fish houses are allowed on the ice through March 31st, the walleye / sauger season goes through April 14th and the pike season never ends. On the Rainy River...  The river is opened up along the Nelson Park boat ramp in Birchdale, the Frontier boat ramp and Vidas boat ramp.  This past week, much of the open water skimmed over with the single digit overnight temps.   Areas of the river have popped open again and with temps getting warmer, things are shaping up for the last stretch through the rest of the spring season, which continues through April 14th.   Very good numbers of walleyes are in the river.  Reports this week, even with fewer anglers, have been good.  When temps warm up and the sun shines, things will fire up again.   Jigs with brightly colored plastics or jigs with a frozen emerald shiner have been the desired bait on the river.  Don't overlook slow trolling crankbaits upstream as well.   Good reports of sturgeon being caught on the river as well.  Sturgeon put the feed bag on in the spring.  The bite has been very good.  Most are using a sturgeon rig with a circle hook loaded with crawlers or crawlers / frozen emerald shiners. Up at the NW Angle...  Ice fishing is winding down up at the Angle.  Walleyes, saugers, and a number of various species in the mix again this week.  The bite is still very good with good numbers of fish.  The one two punch of jigging one line and deadsticking the second line is working well.   Check with Angle resorts on transport options from Young's Bay.  Call ahead for ice road guidelines.  
    • CigarGuy
      With the drifting, kind of hard to tell for sure, but I'm guessing about a foot and still lightly snowing. Cook end!
    • PSU
      How much snow did you get on Vermilion? 
    • Mike89
      lake here refroze too...  started opening again yesterday with the wet snow and wind...  very little ice left today...
    • Hookmaster
      A friend who has a cabin between Alex and Fergus said the lake he's on refroze. He texted me a pic from March 12th when it was open and one from 23rd when it wasn't. 🤯
    • SkunkedAgain
      I don't think that there has been any ice melt in the past few weeks on Vermilion. Things looked like a record and then Mother Nature swept in again.   I'll give my revised guess of April 21st
    • leech~~
      As I get older it's really not just about sending bullets down range.  Some of it's just the workmanship of the gun and the wow factor. The other two guns I have really wanted which I'll never have now because of their price, is a 8mm Jap Nambu and 9mm German Luger.   Just thought they always looked cool!  
    • jim curlee
      I had a guy hit me with a lightly used 1969 BAR, he wanted $1650 with an older Leupold scope. More than I think they are worth, I made an offer, he declined end of story.   You know if you look at the old brochures, a grade II BAR sold for $250 in the late 60s, $1650 would be a good return on your investment.    Why would anybody want a 50 year old gun, they are heavy, have wood stocks, and blued metal.  I guess mainly to keep their gun safes glued to the floor. lol   You can probably buy a stainless rifle that you never have to clean, with a synthetic stock you never have to refinish, is as light as a feather, and for half as much money, perfect.   I'm too old for a youth gun, although I've shrunk enough that it would probably fit. lol   No Ruger 10/44s.   Jim      
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.