Manziel Debate

[ozzie]

Getanet...All "gifts" IMO.

His own coach even threatened to bench or release him from his schalorship/team halfway through the year because of the "cancer" like effect his "laziness" was having on the rest of the team.

41 tackles...3 sacks for the so-called best defensive prospect in years. Give me a break.....

Clowney was a freak and the #1 recruit coming out of high school and played like it an animal his first 2 seasons!!! As a freshman had 8 sacks and 13 as a sophmore!!! The kid knew he should have went in the draft after his sophmore season and made a mistake but it was too late so he had to go back to school and compete but he knew that if he got injured his millions would be lost!!! He had a nagging injury that Spurrier didn't think was a big deal but if you are the kid and know that coach don't care about you or your future what do you think he should have done? Go out and risk potential life changing injury to give your college a chance or protect #1 and make sue you are 100% healthy before getting back on the field?

[Getanet]

Clowney couldn't have entered the draft after his sophomore year. The NFL requires you to be 3 years removed from high school. His only option would have been to sit this past season out. I can only imagine how many questions there would be about his commitment to football and quitting on his teammates if he didn't play at all this year.

[fishersofmen]

And we thought there was a circus when they brought Favre in. How many news helicopters for Johnny....

P.S I'm pretty sure they are building Johnny's house right now. Time to replace the Peterson image on the new stadium with Mr. Football.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Summary-

Big Dave 2: Jonny Manziel is 6'6 and a really good footballer.

Lmitout :take a knee for johnny!

Dr.J : NO. JF is a headcase and is 5'10. We need a Middle Line Backer!

Big Dave2: (posts a link of an obscure story about how johnny football is actually 6'3)

Lmit: Dr. J is a stupid head

Dr. J: No, you are a stupid head. How about sticking your stupid head neck out.

LMT: grasping at straws (insert image)

Dr. J: Put your neck out and say what you'd do

LMT: stop digging

Big Dave 2: JOHNNY FOOTBALL IS a 21 Year old kid! He's gonna grow to be at least 6'1!

(FWIW I actually agree with Lmit and Big dave 2 on johnny foosball. Weird, i'm not sure that happens often)

*Claps hands*

Awesome summary! Spot on!

[BuckSutherland]

If we draft JM, and he comes out to this music I will be a huge fan!!

[DrJuice1980]

If we draft JM, and he comes out to this music I will be a huge fan!!

Or if he would go out and do stuff like this to kids when he visits schools. You can fast forward to around 2:38.

I think JM should try to trademark his own laugh like the MDM.

I should get some major credit here. I incorporated Jesse, the MDM, and JM all into one post.

Like I said, Rubes love Rubes....

[Big Dave2]

Makes sense than why he is projected as #1 or top 5 for sure. Maybe these scouts didnt watch the games you watched OR maybe you just dont understand the game of football

I could say the exact same thing to you about Johnny Football.

[greebs]

Think its safe to say if he's the sure bet that some here think he will be long gone by the time Vikings make their pick.......and if he's the worthless bum others think he will be available in the later rounds.

[DrJuice1980]

I could say the exact same thing to you about Johnny Football.

No, you couldn't. I understand football. Doesn't mean in always right but I feel pretty confident on this one for all the right reasons. Razzle dazzle only works on kick returns.

[creepworm]

Well, there we have it folks.

Dr. Juice claims he "understands' football and feels "pretty confident" that Mr. Football will be a bust. I bet he does not get drafted once teams hear about Dr. Juice's feelings about Johnny.

[Big Dave2]

No, you couldn't. I understand football. Doesn't mean in always right but I feel pretty confident on this one for all the right reasons. Razzle dazzle only works on kick returns.

[DrJuice1980]

Akili Smith, Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, the list goes on and on. Scouts aren't always right.

[fishersofmen]

Scouts aren't always right.

Nobody is.

[DrJuice1980]

Yeah, but Big Dave seems to think there's no such thing as a bust. He's too busy busting his own watching dude perfect videos to realize this kid has some significant flaws.

[FISHINGURU]

OVERVIEW

Left school as a third-year sophomore. Won 2012 Heisman Trophy. 2012 Davey O’Brien Award Winner as nation's top quarterback. Two-time First-Team All-SEC. 2013: Finished fifth in Heisman voting. Started all 13 games. Led team in rushing with 759 yards. Suspended for first half of opener vs. Rice for violating NCAA bylaw saying student-athletes cannot permit their manes or likenesses to be used for commercial purposes. 2012: First Freshman to ever win Heisman Trophy. SEC Offensive Player of the Year. SEC Freshman of the Year. First Team All-SEC. Led the team in rushing with 1,410 yards. 2011: Redshirted. High School: A three-star player who was also recruited by Oregon. Misc: Arrested on June 29, 2012 for showing fake ID to police after getting into a fight at a College Station bar. Pleaded guilty to misdemeanor charge of failing to properly identify himself to police.

ANALYSIS

Strengths- Has very big hands and grips the ball well on the move. Dynamic athlete. Exceptional game-day competitor -- rises to the occasion. Has a passion for the game. Played on the biggest of stages and revels in having his back against the wall. Stepped up against a national-championship Alabama defense in 2012 and has proven he can command come-from-behind victories, as he capped his career in the Chick-fil-A bowl vs. Duke by overcoming a 21-point halftime deficit. Sufficient timing, ball placement and accuracy (68.9 percent career passing percentage). Terrific scrambling ability. Reverse spins and buys time in the pocket while continuing to scan the field -- can still set his feet, alter his throwing motion and manipulate his arm and throwing platform. Houdini-like escapability (uses subtle, nifty sidestep moves) and improvisional ability in the pocket to pull a rabbit out of his hat and create magic. Has peripheral, wide-eyed running vision (sometimes seems like he has eyes in back of his head) and a very good feel for spacing. Carries the ball with a fearless confidence that he will find a way to create and usually gains positive yardage on broken plays when he appears trapped. Is mentally and physically tough -- will pop back up from hard collisions and respond to a challenge. Record-setting and award-winning two-year production. Has a knack for sustaining drives and possesses playmaking ability to create on third downs and in critical situations to keep the sticks moving.

WEAKNESSES- Has an unorthodox body type with marginal height, rounded shoulders, an underdeveloped body and very big feet that almost look clumsy. Will need to learn to do a better job protecting his body and sliding. Feels pocket ghosts and often takes off running at the second flash of coverage. Undisciplined -- plays his own offense and presses to make plays. Cannot see over the pocket easily and almost never steps up into it, creating extra difficulties for OL coaches to coordinate blocking schemes and for offensive linemen to anticipate where the pocket will be. Dances around the pocket too much and creates needless sacks rolling into protection when the pocket is clean. Has not worked from under center, and footwork and set-up will require refinement. Often throws the ball up in the air and relies on big receivers to adjust to it and make plays, highly benefiting from the playmaking ability of Mike Evans. Tends to overshoot the deep ball and throw off his back foot, leading to some underthrows (too many dirtballs on the move) and diminished accuracy. Needlessly pats the ball when he scans the field. Could stand to do a better job carrying out play-action fakes. Has not developed a reputation as a worker or for doing the extras. Suspect intangibles -- not a leader by example or known to inspire by his words. Carries a sense of entitlement and prima-donna arrogance seeking out the bright lights of Hollywood. Is known to party too much and is drawn to all the trappings of the game. Lacks ideal starting experience (only two years), operated a non-traditional offense and has a lot to learn.

Draft Projection- Round 1

BOTTOM LINE- A very unique, run-around, ad-lib, sandlot-style quarterback who consistently won games playing a brand of fast-paced, jailbreak football that often goes off script and can be difficult both to game plan with and against. Is most comfortable on the move outside the pocket where he can find open throwing lanes and see the field and will command mush rush and extra spy defenders. Has defied the odds and proven to be a great college-system quarterback, but still must prove he is willing to work to be great, adjust his hard-partying, Hollywood lifestyle and be able to inspire his teammates by more than his playmaking ability. Overall character, leadership ability and work habits will define his NFL career. Rare competitiveness and third-down efficiency could carry him a long way, yet he will be challenged to avoid a Ryan Leaf-like, crash-and-burn scenario if he does not settle down and mature. A high-risk, high-reward pick, Manziel stands to benefit from entering the NFL at a time when moving pockets are trending.

[Big Dave2]

Yeah, but Big Dave seems to think there's no such thing as a bust. He's too busy busting his own watching dude perfect videos to realize this kid has some significant flaws.

Why would you put words in my mouth that I never said? I never once said there is no such thing as a bust. I never once said that it is a 100% certainty that Johnny Football will not be a bust. I do however think that it is certainly worth taking a chance on drafting one of the best college football quarterbacks of all time.

[Big Dave2]

Scouts aren't always right.

But YOU are?

nar·cis·sism

ˈnärsəˌsizəm/Submit

noun

noun: narcissism

1.

excessive or erotic interest in oneself and one's physical appearance.

synonyms: vanity, self-love, self-admiration, self-absorption, self-obsession, conceit, self-centeredness, self-regard, egotism, egoism More

antonyms: modesty

PSYCHOLOGY

extreme selfishness, with a grandiose view of one's own talents and a craving for admiration, as characterizing a personality type.

PSYCHOANALYSIS

self-centeredness arising from failure to distinguish the self from external objects, either in very young babies or as a feature of mental disorder.

[LMITOUT]

Why would you put words in my mouth that I never said?

Because he has a shovel and won't stop digging.

[DrJuice1980]

Thanks Big Dave, your psycho analysis means a lot coming from a Bama fan. I think a couple posts up I stated I'm not always right. I didn't see admission in that definition so I'm not quite sure the shoe fits. Nice try, now move along or I'll be forced to shovel more dirt on you and LMIT. Go watch some more of party boys unnecessary scrambling highlights. Watch him evade the DE's that run 5 second+ 40s.

[LMITOUT]

The fear in Juice's posts is remarkable, and it has really ratcheted up since Johnny's pro day.

Love it!

[DrJuice1980]

Fear? More like the lack of supporting evidence from you and Big Dave and the empty posts void of anything credible. O king of Rubes.

[LMITOUT]

In other words: Metrics which don't fit your mold + Stats of a top tier QB = frustrated Juicy.

[Big Dave2]

Thanks Big Dave, your psycho analysis means a lot coming from a Bama fan.

I guess now we know which one of us knows a winner when they (I) see one.

[Rick]

Originally Posted By: LMITOUT

Contradict yourself much?

You're so far over your head on this Manziel deal that you can't even make a post that makes sense anymore.

Hint: when you're in a hole, stop digging.

Originally Posted By: DrJuice1980

How so there big guy?

Hint: elaborate for once, with intellectual input. not some meme [/quote']

Juice, the contradiction lmit is talking about is VERY OBVIOUS...You say all he can do is go off stats in one sentence and the next you say he's going off video performances he likes (you don't obviously by your choice of description).

So which is it Juice?

#1. "All he can do is go off stats"

or does Lmit

#2. "go off performance he sees"?

[DrJuice1980]

Are you guys really that blind??

The video statement was obviously because its a joke highlight. LMIT has posted multiple videos of poor judgement that he sees as "good" football. I'm sorry but flushing out of a pocket due to ghost rushers, running around for 20 yrds behind the line of scrimmage "evading" defenders and throwing up a prayer or gaining 2 yrds on the ground it not a highlight. News Flash!!! Thats not quality football and it wont transition to a quality career in the NFL.

THEN..

Its all these numbers. Great, he rocked at NCAA football, not the same as the bigs. Look at the stats then watch the tape, and if you think he's a lock then you're blind.

Look at you guys, you're desperation is showing.

[LMITOUT]

In other words, you've been boxed.

Please, put the shovel down.

[DrJuice1980]

Boxed by highlight reels that highlight what he wont be able to do successfully at the next level (throwing up prayers/going against DE's that run 5+ second 40s) OR boxed by stats that wont transition to the next level?

The kid rocked at the college level, I have a hard time thinking that the way he played and put up those stats will transition. If you strongly think otherwise then you do not know the difference between college and the NFL.

Bottom line he is a major "hope" pick. I know, I know "But everybody in the draft is a hope pick" yeah well not to this extent.

[LMITOUT]

If you strongly think otherwise then you do not know the difference between college and the NFL.

Ahh yes, the prototypical QB mold argument again.

[DrJuice1980]

Wouldn't it be a Prototype because it's successful? I would think breaking that "mold" would be beyond the risk of what the Vikes want, or any team in that matter with a top pick.

If you were referring to Prototypical "College" QB mold then my friend, there isn't one of those yet. I guess you'd only know that if you watched anything besides Bison football.

[Dave S]

I say just draft the guy and if he's a bust, it's business as usual in the Vikings camp. BIG DEAL!!