Jump to content
  • GUESTS

    If You  want access  to member only forums on FM, You will need to Sign-in or  Sign-Up now .

    This box will disappear once you are signed in as a member.

Manziel Debate


DrJuice1980

Recommended Posts

I wouldn't say he's the most polarizing ever. The hype surrounding Tebow was just as unrelenting. I recall a ton of debate about Vince Young and Reggie Bush the year they came out as well. And heck, as we get a few weeks closer to the draft we're going to be incredibly tired of hearing about Jadaveon Clowney (if you're not already) and whether he has the desire to play football.

These debates are as much driven by the need for sports networks and websites to fill the 24 hr news cycle than anything the athletes are actually doing off the field.

Need to fill 3 minutes on Sports Center or get a bunch of clicks on your website - run story on Johnny/Jadaveon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 1.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Big Dave2

    181

  • DrJuice1980

    176

  • CaptainMusky

    173

  • LMITOUT

    135

I wouldn't say he's the most polarizing ever. The hype surrounding Tebow was just as unrelenting. I recall a ton of debate about Vince Young and Reggie Bush the year they came out as well. And heck, as we get a few weeks closer to the draft we're going to be incredibly tired of hearing about Jadaveon Clowney (if you're not already) and whether he has the desire to play football.

These debates are as much driven by the need for sports networks and websites to fill the 24 hr news cycle than anything the athletes are actually doing off the field.

Need to fill 3 minutes on Sports Center or get a bunch of clicks on your website - run story on Johnny/Jadaveon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The same can be said for any player. Clowney did nothing last season and his hype is based purely on his 40 time and the fact that he knocked the Michigan RB's helmet off on an unblocked tackle. There plenty of articles out there talking him up as a can't miss #1 pick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry Juan, he is much more than just a 40 time and an unblocked tackle. Dude can flat out play. He is a freak, a specimen, a guy well worthy of a #1 pick. I have nothing against these guys getting paid, they should for all the $$$$ somebody else makes of them. I have no problem with the possibility of Clowney taking time off because of a risk of injury and a pay day. I have no problem with JM finally cashing that big boy check. The character issues shouldnt be about the money. Theyre about the leadership, the late night parties, "making it rain", skipping out on hosting camps because youre still drunk from the night before, Mr. You-Tube highlight reels of yourself w/ dude perfect, "hey, look at me!" attitude, etc. The only thing you can come at Clowney for is maybe not going 100% and risking becoming a millionaire. Can you blame him? No, blame the NCAA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The character issues shouldnt be about the money. Theyre about the leadership, the late night parties, "making it rain", skipping out on hosting camps because youre still drunk from the night before, Mr. You-Tube highlight reels of yourself w/ dude perfect, "hey, look at me!" attitude, etc.

All of that stuff is only a distraction for sports fans. Have you read any teammates ripping him? By almost all accounts his teammates and coaches love him. In terms of leadership that matters, he brought the program to greater prominence and often put up amazing performances that led to victories. His production is what former and future teammates and coaches will care about.

I have no idea if his skills will translate in the NFL, but most of his indiscretions can be chalked up to being a 21-year old.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well you could argue Manziel had the same financial risk in 2013 by getting hurt after winning the Heisman his freshman season. He proceeded to put up 4114 passing yards, 37 tds, a 70% completion percentage, 759 yards rushing, 9 rushing tds and played every game.

Clowney had 41 tackles and 3 sacks. I have no doubt Clowney has the physical tools to be a great pro, but we'll see how motivated he is after he cashes that first check.

Manziel has the motivation and competitive drive to be the best. That's what I like about him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is Johnny Manziel the most polarizing player ever? I've never seen so many varying opinions on one guy before.

The haters don't like him because he doesn't fit into their prototypical mold for a QB which they live and die by, even though he still puts up the stats. This frustrates their minuscule minds because they can't comprehend how to evaluate him. Therefore, they just disregard him completely in a fit of anger like a 3-year old child who can't figure out why the square peg won't fit into the round hole.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Everything I have read about JM he is a great team leader, his players respect him. He leads the team on the field with confidence.

He is the player that knows more about football then the coaches, and he is eager to learn everything there is. He is a quick learner of play books, and can execute the plays on the field. I am not sure where you dream up this stuff about his lack of leadership?

Haters gunna Hate!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rubes love dem Rubes!

Have fun "leading" and NFL squad when its all about "Me, Me, Me, and Me!" The way he plays spews selfishness, lack of regard for the team, and "pad MY stats." Not really friendly in an NFL locker room.

FYI fellas, quick reminder, the pro game is a different type of game than the college game. Just go ask Mr. Saban, Mr. Weiss, Mr. Spurrier, Mr. Holtz, Mr. Petrino, etc. Or you can ask Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, soon to be RGIII, Joey Harrington (Joey Football, huge stats, similarities? all signs point to YES!), Vince Young, Jamarcus Russell, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The same can be said for any player. Clowney did nothing last season and his hype is based purely on his 40 time and the fact that he knocked the Michigan RB's helmet off on an unblocked tackle. There plenty of articles out there talking him up as a can't miss #1 pick.

I agree 100% with this Juan G.

I've seen Clowney play probably 10 times over the past two years and never once was I even slightly impressed.

Lack of effort from a player playing a position that requires RELENTLESS effort is very concerning to me. His own college football coach said he was "a lazy football player". Double concerning.

He is a physical freak though...no doubt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've seen Clowney play probably 10 times over the past two years and never once was I even slightly impressed.

Lack of effort from a player playing a position that requires RELENTLESS effort is very concerning to me. His own college football coach said he was "a lazy football player". Double concerning.

Makes sense than why he is projected as #1 or top 5 for sure. Maybe these scouts didnt watch the games you watched OR maybe you just dont understand the game of football and you thought he looked bad because he wasnt in on the tackle but did his job to not open up a hole.

Football isnt all about stats. To guys like LMIT it is and theres nothing else. Its easy for him to think that way because he cant comprehend more than reading the stat line and analyzing play is WAY over his head. He makes comments like "you guys act like a 3yr old trying to put square peg in round hole" yet posts a video of JM running around like a chicken with his head cut off, heaving up a duck in the middle of 4 defenders, only from the miracle to happen that his teammate comes down with it for an 8 yrd gain and first down. Like, wow guys look at this highlight! That pretty much sums up LMIT's understanding of the game of football.

Rubes love Rubes.

Hey LMIT:

Rinse, Repeat!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, the pro game is much different than college, much harder in fact. Stands to reason that a player who is going to dominate in the pros should dominate in college right? If not then should we disregard college stats altogether and just draft based off combine measurables?

By your rationale Dr. Juice, we should never draft a QB for fear that he might be the next Ryan Leaf instead of Drew Brees. How about a list of all the bust defensive players taken in the first round? The Vikes have a list a mile long...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Football isnt all about stats. To guys like LMIT it is and theres nothing else. Its easy for him to think that way because he cant comprehend more than reading the stat line and analyzing play is WAY over his head.

He makes comments like "you guys act like a 3yr old trying to put square peg in round hole" yet posts a video of JM running around like a chicken with his head cut off, heaving up a duck in the middle of 4 defenders, only from the miracle to happen that his teammate comes down with it for an 8 yrd gain and first down. Like, wow guys look at this highlight!

Contradict yourself much?

You're so far over your head on this Manziel deal that you can't even make a post that makes sense anymore.

Hint: when you're in a hole, stop digging.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well with a top 10 pick you have to be careful. If youre gonna pick apart my posts show your pair and say what you'd look for. Should it just be the guy with the best stats? Im sure we could find some DII guys who have massive stats, do we include them based just off numbers?

There is no direct science. You analyze all aspects of the game. I'd take a guy with average stats that had no support vs a guy who had arguably the best O-Line and best WR in the college game.

How'd they go 9-4 with such a "Great" player? Selfish play, thats how. Learn a lesson from this kids. Football is 100% a team sport.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's easy...A&M had one of the worst defenses in all of college football last year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Contradict yourself much?

You're so far over your head on this Manziel deal that you can't even make a post that makes sense anymore.

Hint: when you're in a hole, stop digging.

How so there big guy?

Hint: elaborate for once, with intellectual input. not some meme

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's easy...A&M had one of the worst defenses in all of college football last year.

Is that your excuse when he fails to impress in the NFL?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How so there big guy?

Unwind the panties (see above about fits of anger), stop punching at the air, and rationalize it out for yourself.

BTW, Thanks for perfectly illustrating my previous point, RE: haters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Clowny is the prototypical "work-out warrior". Basically, he's just big and fast...he's not that strong at all.

It's very hard to find anyone calling him a "great" football player...he simply wasn't at SC. It's all about what he MIGHT be able to do if he finally decides he wants to play football.

Lack of effort, desire, and competitiveness are much bigger red-flags than anything that Manziel may have done (off field)as a 20-21 year old kid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Juice...you obviously never tuned in to an A&M game this year to watch young JF play...if you had, you would have heard over and over and over how BAD the A&M defense was.

There are no excuses...that was a fact.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's very hard to find anyone calling him a "great" football player...he simply wasn't at SC. It's all about what he MIGHT be able to do if he finally decides he wants to play football.

You do know he was a unanimous All American as a true sophomore and Defensive Player of the Year in the SEC right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unwind the panties (see above about fits of anger), stop punching at the air, and rationalize it out for yourself.

BTW, Thanks for perfectly illustrating my previous point, RE: haters.

How insightful and intellectual.... I bet your searching for a Manziel circus throw video to post and add to your reasoning for why he will succeed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Getanet...All "gifts" IMO.

His own coach even threatened to bench or release him from his schalorship/team halfway through the year because of the "cancer" like effect his "laziness" was having on the rest of the team.

41 tackles...3 sacks for the so-called best defensive prospect in years. Give me a break.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I bet your searching for a Manziel circus throw video to post and add to your reasoning for why he will succeed.

Why would I do that when, according to you, I'm supposedly all about the stats?

Put down the shovel and walk away. No, run, while you still can.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Gifts" huh? Didn't know they just hands those All-American awards out. I'll add that to my Xmas list, it will look great on my resume and LinkedIn profile.

There's no question he had a disappointing year this past season, but it's silly to say he did nothing special in college or was simply handed All-American recognition as a true sophomore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Juice...you obviously never tuned in to an A&M game this year to watch young JF play...if you had, you would have heard over and over and over how BAD the A&M defense was.

There are no excuses...that was a fact.

Actually I saw quite a few of his games over the last 2 years and saw many parts of his game that were flawed. Like flushing a pocket for ghost rushers, running backwards 20 yrds to gain 2, throwing into double/triple coverage, etc. The difference is I wasnt pitching a tent over that 2 yard gain. If you were at LMIT or Big Dave's house you had to put up the plastic sheet in front of you like you were seated in the front row at a Gallagher show to avoid the DNA shower.

LMIT, is this true? A&M had a bad defense? I thought a great QB solved everything? HAHAHA!!

Rubes love Rubes...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't read any of this thread.

Not only do I love Johnny football the Vikings have to get him somehow someway.

It may flop but its worth the risk IMO.

Carry on!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't read any of this thread.

Do yourself a favor and stick to that plan, unless you want your head to explode.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm starting to hope he ends up a Viking just for the fun of it. If he ends up a Texan,Brown or Raider it won't be as fun anymore lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't read any of this thread.

Summary-

Big Dave 2: Jonny Manziel is 6'6 and a really good footballer.

Lmitout :take a knee for johnny!

Dr.J : NO. JF is a headcase and is 5'10. We need a Middle Line Backer!

Big Dave2: (posts a link of an obscure story about how johnny football is actually 6'3)

Lmit: Dr. J is a stupid head

Dr. J: No, you are a stupid head. How about sticking your stupid head neck out.

LMT: grasping at straws (insert image)

Dr. J: Put your neck out and say what you'd do

LMT: stop digging

Big Dave 2: JOHNNY FOOTBALL IS a 21 Year old kid! He's gonna grow to be at least 6'1!

smile

(FWIW I actually agree with Lmit and Big dave 2 on johnny foosball. Weird, i'm not sure that happens often)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Your Responses - Share & Have Fun :)

    • leech~~
      Nope not me.  May want to go nextdoor and ask around?  
    • smurfy
      Looks to me like Leech brought his chair home!!😅😆
    • Brianf.
      I'm not there, so I can't tell exactly what's going on but it looks like a large area of open water developed in the last day with all of the heavy snow on the east side of wake em up Narrows. These two photos are from my Ring Camera facing north towards Niles Point.  You can see what happened with all of snow that fell in the last three days, though the open water could have been wind driven. Hard to say. .  
    • SkunkedAgain
      Black Bay had great ice before but a few spots near rockpiles where there were spots of open water. It looks like the weight of the snow has created a little lake in the middle of the bay.  
    • LakeofthewoodsMN
      On the south end...   Thanks to some cold spring weather, ice fishing continues strong for those still ice fishing.  The bite remains very good.  Most resorts have pulled their fish houses off for the year, however, some still have fish houses out and others are allowing ATV and side by sides.  Check social media or call ahead to your favorite resort for specifics. Reports this week for walleyes and saugers remain excellent.   A nice mix of jumbo perch, pike, eelpout, and an occasional crappie, tullibee or sturgeon being reported by anglers. Jigging one line and using a live minnow on the second line is the way to go.  Green, glow red, pink and gold were good colors this week.     Monster pike are on a tear!  Good number of pike, some reaching over 45 inches long, being caught using tip ups with live suckers or dead bait such as smelt and herring in 8 - 14' of water.   As always, work through a resort or outfitter for ice road conditions.  Safety first always. Fish houses are allowed on the ice through March 31st, the walleye / sauger season goes through April 14th and the pike season never ends. On the Rainy River...  The river is opened up along the Nelson Park boat ramp in Birchdale, the Frontier boat ramp and Vidas boat ramp.  This past week, much of the open water skimmed over with the single digit overnight temps.   Areas of the river have popped open again and with temps getting warmer, things are shaping up for the last stretch through the rest of the spring season, which continues through April 14th.   Very good numbers of walleyes are in the river.  Reports this week, even with fewer anglers, have been good.  When temps warm up and the sun shines, things will fire up again.   Jigs with brightly colored plastics or jigs with a frozen emerald shiner have been the desired bait on the river.  Don't overlook slow trolling crankbaits upstream as well.   Good reports of sturgeon being caught on the river as well.  Sturgeon put the feed bag on in the spring.  The bite has been very good.  Most are using a sturgeon rig with a circle hook loaded with crawlers or crawlers / frozen emerald shiners. Up at the NW Angle...  Ice fishing is winding down up at the Angle.  Walleyes, saugers, and a number of various species in the mix again this week.  The bite is still very good with good numbers of fish.  The one two punch of jigging one line and deadsticking the second line is working well.   Check with Angle resorts on transport options from Young's Bay.  Call ahead for ice road guidelines.  
    • CigarGuy
      With the drifting, kind of hard to tell for sure, but I'm guessing about a foot and still lightly snowing. Cook end!
    • PSU
      How much snow did you get on Vermilion? 
    • Mike89
      lake here refroze too...  started opening again yesterday with the wet snow and wind...  very little ice left today...
    • Hookmaster
      A friend who has a cabin between Alex and Fergus said the lake he's on refroze. He texted me a pic from March 12th when it was open and one from 23rd when it wasn't. 🤯
    • SkunkedAgain
      I don't think that there has been any ice melt in the past few weeks on Vermilion. Things looked like a record and then Mother Nature swept in again.   I'll give my revised guess of April 21st
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.