Jump to content
  • GUESTS

    If You  want access  to member only forums on FM, You will need to Sign-in or  Sign-Up now .

    This box will disappear once you are signed in as a member.

MN Pheasants down 29%


mascad

Recommended Posts

I hunted geese and worked on deer stands primarily this weekend, but did get out for about a half an hour or so and hunted a 13 acre field and saw 13 birds. Got 1, passed up 2 young ones. Where was this? On habitat enhanced by the local PF chapter.

Harvey, you keep swiching from Sibley county to MN. No idea what is happening in Sibley, but you are dead wrong about MN. I shot 24 wild birds last year and my dad and brother both shot more than 15 each. I can name 4 more guys who shot about that many. All MN birds, mix of public and private. It is pretty fun to see the results of habitat work. Here are the numbers of birds shot on one farm (60 acres) by year (and by the way, we are quite a ways north of Sibley county). Can you guess when the habitat work was done???

1994-2000 about 1-2 per year

2001 2

2002 1

2003 2

2004 4

2005 13

2006 21

2007 24

2008 27

2009 6 - Note we did very little hunting on that place that year

2010 13

2011 10

2012 25

Wel that's great you have a few in your neighborhood.

Seem's I was talking about 2 small areas in the entire state.

As a comparison, where I deer hunt in ND, we have good hunting, others areas not so as some tell me, I do not call them liars or jump them, I just say that stinks. I have no idea what others area have for a population so I off course do not question what they say.

Facts may be, I saw the days when one could flush 100 birds at a time. What you see today compared to the hay days is nada.

I could make a chart with the deer I shot shot in one area in ND, does that mean the entire state has those numbers, almost laughable.

The fact still remains, according to the DNR the bird population is way down, not my figures but thiers. I did not say one could not shoot a few, just said it is poor at best out there and you could find a pocket of birds here and there.

I get my info from what I have seen and what the local farmers have told me they saw while in thier fields.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 78
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • harvey lee

    17

  • BLACKJACK

    6

  • CodyDawg

    6

  • Ryan_V

    6

I didnt hunt very hard, but only because I didnt see any birds, and the dogs lost interest early.

Were you in the LeSueur area Scott?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I get my info from what I have seen and what the local farmers have told me they saw while in thier fields.

But yet you have yet to set foot in the fields yourself! Ill take first hand reports from those that still go out and get their boots muddy than from a bunch of old timers who sit around and drink coffee.

We get it you don't hunt pheasants any more. Save your gossip and doom and gloom pheasant stories for your coffee talk and spare the rest of us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As far as I am concerned there have NEVER been good numbers of birds in Sibley county. I grew up 15 miles from Sibley county and mostly black earth as far as the eye can see. There is your reason there are so few birds.

Harvey Tell your farmer buddies to plant some habitat and there would be birds around.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

rundave, I have numerous friends that have told me they have done poorly this year when they were out. Those are reports as close as I need to know what is out there without going out. I use to hunt pheasants more than 90% of the people but I have stopped simply for the lack of birds. Sure, I could go out and shot 1 or maybe 2 but I would rather do other things that are more productive. Anyone else can do as they please but I choose not to until the numbers get up there a bit more and with the farm program, that is highl;y unlikely anytime soon.

I have no idea about your friends who hunt but my OLD TIMER friends who have hunted this year do not lie to me so I take what they tell me as fact. But, just maybe since they have OLD TIMERS brains, maybe they do not know what they saw when they were out. You know how those OLD TIMERS forget everything from 2 days ago and how much they lie.

The only gossip around is the gossip on this subject.

One does not have to go out into the field to know what is out there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As far as I am concerned there have NEVER been good numbers of birds in Sibley county. I grew up 15 miles from Sibley county and mostly black earth as far as the eye can see. There is your reason there are so few birds.

Harvey Tell your farmer buddies to plant some habitat and there would be birds around.

Year's back there were huntable numbers but nothing to get overly excited about.

I do not see much planting for habitat when ag land sells for $10,000 and maybe more per acre and the Gov programs pay way less. It's $'s for them and pheasants do not put any food on thier table or help with the bills like corn and beans do.

I would agree with you that we need more habitat but with land values, prices for grain, long story short, habitat for wildlife is not on that list of what to do woith thier acerage.

I agree, tough for the birds to survive in a black desert.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Harvey, I mean no dis-respect to your or your "old timer" friends. My point is that you come on these pheasant hunting threads for years with the same message.

You don't hunt them, you don't put the time in the fields like the others on these threads do. Your posts are the same thing, over and over, rinse and repeat.

People are still going to hunt pheasants regardless of bird numbers. Just because it doesn't excite you to go any more so be it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Never said noone should hunt, don't know where you get your info.

Seem's to me in my area, in the past years, it has been the same. Some report better bird numbers and that's fine, I guess one should only post if they are going to post that the birds are plentiuful. Maybe the DNR should only post when the numbers are up and not like the last few when they post the same thing, number's down.

I also never said people should not go out, you said I said that. Yes, I have hunted them and hard when the numbers were better, I simply choose to not hunt now until the numbers increase, ok with you? You are more than welcome to chase them all you want, never said you should not.

Talk about putting words in one's mouth.

No reason to post in here any longer as one should only post if they have seen or shot many birds, if not, please do not post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No question the bird numbers are down and we all know the reasons why.....

But - there will always be people out there (myself included at times) that do the right things, at times and hunt the right areas....and harvest birds.

In the last 2 years we harvested 10% of the birds we use to get...but we still go cause its FUN!...and my dogs like it too!

Nuff said.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder if people really know why the bird numbers are down. ???

I don't think blaming the farmers is completely correct. It is their land and they have a right to do with it what they want...as long as it is legal and within the provisions of the farm program. If it is illegal and outside the provisions of the farm program...then there are some issues.

Bad winters...yes, that potentially increases mortality.

Cold wet springs...yes, that also potentially increases mortality.

But...my farm has been exposed to the same winters and same cold wet springs...yet I have birds flying all over the place.

What I am getting at is that pheasants are "home bodies"...they don't travel far from the place they like to live. DNR studies have shown that pheasants stay very close to their winter cover areas but will travel up to 6 miles out to nest "if they need to". I personally feel those distances can be much less with proper design and management.

My property is designed with shrub\conifer areas protecting food plots and feeders along with surrounding native grass areas. This design gets more hens through the winter which provides for a higher nesting population which results in a higher number of chances of having more birds. IE...10 hens producing two chicks during a bad spring = 20 new birds...versus...50 hens producing two chicks during a bad spring = 100 new birds. The more hens you have...the better you will get through the bad years in good condition.

So...we are not shooting hens. What is happening to the hens?

My opinion is that we are not taking care of our hens. You can have a "black desert" as some have expressed and still get your hens through the winter by having one really well designed "Winter Core Area" (WCA) in the "9 mile square area". (9 mile square area is the DNR's research out of the Medila, MN research station. I personally don't buy into it as I would rather have a WCA in every 1 mile square or slightly out from that.)

So...if we really looked at what we can do within even a 3 mile area, can we develop WCAs to get our hens through the winter even though there is extensive farming going on???

I say that "yes we can". But is it being done? Not that I see.

There are a few private lands with some descent designs and pheasant numbers...mine is one of them. But how about all the other areas?

How about the WMA and WPAs? Are they set up as WCAs to get hens through the winter? Remember...we have control over these areas...no one is coming in and making a black desert on the WMA and WPA units.

But are the WMA and WPAs getting hens through the winter? Are they set up as WCAs?

My observation is that they are not. For the most part they have or are cutting down the trees, not putting food plots in and no feeders. Just high diversity prairie that is not used by the hens because "Dead Hens Don't Lay Eggs". There is an exception in SW Minnesota however where some previous DNR managers installed large conifer plantings and still have food plots being installed...there are also higher bird numbers there. Some great fore site from those guys!

What I am getting at is that I would like everyone to do the following...

1. Identify the best winter cover areas in your area or where you hunt and get food plots and\or feeders implemented to get more hens through the winter. It is too late for food plots...so start getting feeders out before the snow flies.

2. Contact your local DNR and state DNR and ask them why they are not planting WCAs on the public land us tax payers have paid for. And don't let them give you the song and dance about "there is cover and food near by or within the area". If that was REALLY the case, then we wouldn't have a dwindling pheasant population.

3. Contact your local PF group and state PF and ask them why they are not planting WCAs on the land they buy and donate for public land us tax payers and members have paid for. And don't let them give you the song and dance about "there is cover and food near by or within the area". If that was REALLY the case, then we wouldn't have a dwindling pheasant population.

If you don't do any of these things, then you have absolutely nothing to complain about.

The fact that our own PUBLIC land is not being managed for pheasants is frustrating. I really don't think anyone should complain about the farmers when "your own public land" is sitting in shambles. If every WMA was designed with maximum carrying capacities for pheasants, you would definitely not see the decline in pheasants we are seeing right now.

I am more than happy to help anyone review aerial photos of their area to identify WCAs to get feeders into. I am also more than happy to help provide designs for WCAs on public lands if you want to present them to the decision makers. Let's make it happen!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We get it you don't hunt pheasants any more. Save your gossip and doom and gloom pheasant stories for your coffee talk and spare the rest of us.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Much of the land in West Central MN is WPA's and as the Fish and Wildlife Service has made abundantly clear, they care NOTHING about pheasants in their management plans for these areas. Trying to get food plots or feeders in these areas will never happen unless there is a mindset shift at the top and I dont see it. Their focus is waterfowl and waterfowl only.

That leaves WMA's which I agree with you 100% that in SW MN lands have extensive food plots and wintering cover. Trouble is those lands were established many moons ago in most cases and much of the cover is aged to a point its no longer effective and the foodplots are sprayed so there are no weeds in them because the "farmer" doesnt want a weedy crop.

I would honestly love to see your Land Landdr. There is nothing I appreciate more than a well planned out and managed piece of property for wildlife.

I have high aspirations to own one myself one day, but the prices are currently out of my reach.

I have hunted in your neck of the woods for nearly 15 years and there are some nice properties out there, but some have changed negatively significantly in the last 5 years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Captain...let me know and I would be happy to give a tour. Maybe we should set a date and everyone can show up for a "field day". I am bow hunting right now so probably don't want to tramps around the entire property but can take a look from the outside in. Sunset it always fun when all of the roosters start cackling and chasing other roosters and hens around.

My past experience with USFW is that they will allow feeders. Tree plantings and food plots definitely not...which I also agree is really sad. I don't understand how that agency can be so narrow minded on this.

If anyone has a WPA they want to put feeders on, I would be happy to lobby the area office for that unit to get permission. Worst they can say is no, and if they do I will challenge them on it some more. smile

WMAs...hunters need to engage and engage fast. PF is buying land to go to the DNR and it is all grass. On mild winters you will see a population increase with "just grass"...but one or two bad winter\springs and you are right back to ground zero. That is not an opinion since everyone can see where we are currently at in most of the state. Contact them and ask the tough questions. Please post your results and what they said...it would be interesting to hear from everyone on what they found out.

BigTen...I have done A LOT of the native prairie plantings in those counties and spent a lot of time there as well. What happens when all of these large areas get put into GRASS is that it develops a situation where the pheasants have to go farther and farther to the FOOD SOURCE during the winter. THE GRASS HAS ISOLATED THE WINTER COVER AREAS FROM THE FOOD SOURCES.

For example...if you have a really good woody cover area and then you plant 40 or 60 acres of grass around it, where is the food source now? The food source used to be right beside the thick woody cover...but now it is a quarter or half mile away! So when the going gets tough in Jan and Feb, these birds have to venture further and further away from the excellent safe cover to get the food. DNR studies show the further birds have to go for food, mortality increases exponentially!! This is a HUGE issue! Again why we need to get the food back into the existing WCAs areas and make sure new lands have WCAs designed into them.

Back 10-15 years ago there used to be a real relationship between Ag and winter cover. But now the conservation programs have isolated the winter cover from the Ag food and we are seeing some really high mortality rates with our hens.

Some good points BigTen

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry... I deleted my prior post right after I submitted it because I decided I didn't want to get into a big squabble.

We have some cedars and some cattail sloughs that are surrounded by cedars and/or heavy, large willows. These are the areas that the pheasants go to survive, along with the heavier groves (mainly evergreen trees). It is about 150 yds to the crop fields from these sloughs, and it is pretty neat to watch them walk single file out to feed in the afternoons later in winter. They look like a little army.

I agree with your overall assertion about needing a place that is cover for the nastiest times.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BigTen...I thought your post was good and it brought up a very important point.

The fact that you are seeing your pheasants travel from good cover to the food source is exactly what I am pointing out as well. Every time those pheasants do that, they are exposing themselves to avian and ground predators. It is a death march!

Maybe the 150yds is now grass (CRP) but was one time crop. When it was crop, the food source was right next to the cover which resulted in less exposure.

I would recommend getting feeders down in the thick stuff...put the feeders right inside the willows to avian predators can fly in and gives the birds time to escape in other predators arrive.

When I give seminars on this stuff, I express to people that you don't want to "see" your birds in the winter. You want to create a situation where the birds don't have to move far from their best cover to a reliable food source.

It kills me when I see a feeder put on top of a knoll in a field or out in the open somewhere. Seriously...are they trying to draw the birds out so the hawks and owls can nail them?

Another example is when you see birds out in an open field on a sunny day and everyone gets excited to see all of the birds. WORST THING THAT COULD HAPPEN to see all of those birds out in those open fields! Easy picking for predators. The birds are out there because either they ran out of food next to their cover or the best food is the meager pickings they find in the field. If the birds had reliable food next to their cover, they wouldn't need to venture out and increase their exposure.

I hope everyone is starting to see that there is A LOT that can be done by each of us to improve the situation. But before blaming others, make sure you do as much as you can first.

Also keep in mind that "just enrolling" programs or grass is not going to solve the problem. Like I mentioned, grass will do fine if all we have is mild winters, but we all know that is not the case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's why you design what they need to survive harsh winters. The start!

Humans are not adapted to survive harsh winters either...so we build warm houses with fridges full of food.

Build your pheasants a warm house and fill their fridge up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Your Responses - Share & Have Fun :)

    • leech~~
      Nope not me.  May want to go nextdoor and ask around?  
    • smurfy
      Looks to me like Leech brought his chair home!!😅😆
    • Brianf.
      I'm not there, so I can't tell exactly what's going on but it looks like a large area of open water developed in the last day with all of the heavy snow on the east side of wake em up Narrows. These two photos are from my Ring Camera facing north towards Niles Point.  You can see what happened with all of snow that fell in the last three days, though the open water could have been wind driven. Hard to say. .  
    • SkunkedAgain
      Black Bay had great ice before but a few spots near rockpiles where there were spots of open water. It looks like the weight of the snow has created a little lake in the middle of the bay.  
    • LakeofthewoodsMN
      On the south end...   Thanks to some cold spring weather, ice fishing continues strong for those still ice fishing.  The bite remains very good.  Most resorts have pulled their fish houses off for the year, however, some still have fish houses out and others are allowing ATV and side by sides.  Check social media or call ahead to your favorite resort for specifics. Reports this week for walleyes and saugers remain excellent.   A nice mix of jumbo perch, pike, eelpout, and an occasional crappie, tullibee or sturgeon being reported by anglers. Jigging one line and using a live minnow on the second line is the way to go.  Green, glow red, pink and gold were good colors this week.     Monster pike are on a tear!  Good number of pike, some reaching over 45 inches long, being caught using tip ups with live suckers or dead bait such as smelt and herring in 8 - 14' of water.   As always, work through a resort or outfitter for ice road conditions.  Safety first always. Fish houses are allowed on the ice through March 31st, the walleye / sauger season goes through April 14th and the pike season never ends. On the Rainy River...  The river is opened up along the Nelson Park boat ramp in Birchdale, the Frontier boat ramp and Vidas boat ramp.  This past week, much of the open water skimmed over with the single digit overnight temps.   Areas of the river have popped open again and with temps getting warmer, things are shaping up for the last stretch through the rest of the spring season, which continues through April 14th.   Very good numbers of walleyes are in the river.  Reports this week, even with fewer anglers, have been good.  When temps warm up and the sun shines, things will fire up again.   Jigs with brightly colored plastics or jigs with a frozen emerald shiner have been the desired bait on the river.  Don't overlook slow trolling crankbaits upstream as well.   Good reports of sturgeon being caught on the river as well.  Sturgeon put the feed bag on in the spring.  The bite has been very good.  Most are using a sturgeon rig with a circle hook loaded with crawlers or crawlers / frozen emerald shiners. Up at the NW Angle...  Ice fishing is winding down up at the Angle.  Walleyes, saugers, and a number of various species in the mix again this week.  The bite is still very good with good numbers of fish.  The one two punch of jigging one line and deadsticking the second line is working well.   Check with Angle resorts on transport options from Young's Bay.  Call ahead for ice road guidelines.  
    • CigarGuy
      With the drifting, kind of hard to tell for sure, but I'm guessing about a foot and still lightly snowing. Cook end!
    • PSU
      How much snow did you get on Vermilion? 
    • Mike89
      lake here refroze too...  started opening again yesterday with the wet snow and wind...  very little ice left today...
    • Hookmaster
      A friend who has a cabin between Alex and Fergus said the lake he's on refroze. He texted me a pic from March 12th when it was open and one from 23rd when it wasn't. 🤯
    • SkunkedAgain
      I don't think that there has been any ice melt in the past few weeks on Vermilion. Things looked like a record and then Mother Nature swept in again.   I'll give my revised guess of April 21st
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.