Ponder

[FISHINGURU]

But you can also say that the other teams didn't game plan against him so he should have an advantage in that respect as well. It isn't like they tied a hand behind his back or anything. The Bills put in a raw rookie and he looked plenty poised, didn't game plan and still made plays we are still waiting for Ponder to make.

That says two things- Did you essentially just said Ponder is garbage. But the thing I wonder about that statement is how you can look at the roster and say the rest of the team is garbage.

Rudolph- Young, talented, Pro Bowl MVP.

Felton- Pro Bowl FB

Jennings- Talented WR

Kalil- One of the top LT's in football.

Sullivan- One of the best Centers in the game

Loadholt- Emerging as one of the best RT's in the game and the heart and soul of the OL.

Allen, Robison and Griffin as DT's- Lots of talent there.

KW and Floyd- Great interior players with age and youth

Harrison Smith- Great second year player.

There is a lot of talent on this team. Enough to challenge for a championship if we get solid play at the QB position.

They did game plan for Ponder that's why they blitzed every play lol. Normally in preseason teams just stick to a base defense and don't do blitzes or trickery, they were going all out.

Sure we have some decent individual players but that doesn't make a great TEAM, I don't know what to tell you if you think we could lose AP and still be a championship team. Your purple drank must be a tasty one.

[fishersofmen]

"If he can just manage the game and not turn the ball over." That seems to be the highest expectations of the majority for Ponder. Look at many of these other young qb's that are dynamic playmakers and making their teams better. Our expectations are "don't sink the ship." Sucks.

[zepman]

^^^^spot-on^^^^

[FISHINGURU]

That is the truth.

If I was the Vikes I would of tried to get Cousins in the offseason, let him come in and battle for the #1 spot.

[CaptainMusky]

And have yet another young unproven qb? True the attitude of a game manager vs a game changer sucks but the fact of the matter is there are few game changers at qb out there and you can win a lot of games with a qb that is just "good". Whether that's enough to go deep in the playoffs well it used to be but the last few years it hasn't.

[FISHINGURU]

They are all young and unproven at one point. That's the only way your going to get a game changer QB in this league. Once they are proven you can't get them. So you have to gamble unless you just always want a mediocre middle of the pack QB.

The Vikes seemed scared to bring in a decent QB to challenge Ponder, they probably know he would of lost the battle. Could of easily got a guy in here like Fitzpatrick and he would of been our starter day 1. They want Ponder to feel reassured he's our guy for some reason even though he hasn't earned anything.

[SkunkedAgain]

The Vikes seemed scared to bring in a decent QB to challenge Ponder

Tough words without proof. Just because decent QBs exist doesn't mean you can get them, or get them for a reasonable price. Herschel Walker

I lot of you will be pacified this Saturday, but only because Ponder will have AP in the backfield. That makes a big difference for a marginal QB like Ponder. It turns him from a bad QB into a game manager.

[CaptainMusky]

I dont believe the vikings are scared to sign a higher priced QB, its all about where they are at cap wise with what they have now. Allen has a huge salary, as does Peterson. If they went out and signed some prized free agent QB (which there werent any this offseason I would have been interested in) where does that leave them with the rest of their roster?

Hypothetically speaking just think how good the Packers would be if they didnt have so much money tied up with Rodgers. I mean, they might be able to get a decent running back.

I would be all for spreading the money around and getting a more balanced team than spending loads of cash on some hot commodity QB and nothing around him to throw to.

[nofishfisherman]

I agree its not about being afraid to bring someone in. Its a matter of there not being anyone worth bringing in.

How often does a quality QB hit the free agent market? I can only think of two, Brees and Manning and both only became free agents because of serious questions about their health and because the Colts and Chargers both had young QB's waiting to take over. Brees was coming off a serious shoulder injury and Manning a serious neck injury.

A quality QB without question marks is not something that comes along very often because teams sign them to long term extensions before they hit free agency.

And on the odd occasion when a top tier QB may hit FA you need a large amount of cap space availabel to sign them. If Rodgers, Brady, or Brees where cut today and where FA's there would be alot of teams not capable of signing them to the contract they command because of salary cap limitations. Teams would need to cut 1/4 of their roster to free up enough money to sign one of those guys.

[FISHINGURU]

LOL, by decent I meant Ponders level which isn't hard to find or very costly. Decent QB isn't Brees, Manning, Brady, Rodgers, ect, they are top flight.

They could of got a guy like Fitzpatrick in here for a few mill and he would of beat Ponder out in a fair competition. They didn't want that to happen because they are still hoping their 1st round QB is the guy they were looking for when they drafted him.

I still haven't gave up on him personally, this year will show us what he's really made of but I do think they are afraid to bring in stiff competition having him fail and lose confidence.

[CaptainMusky]

I guess, by those terms of decent wouldnt Cassel fit the requirements? I mean, he has better overall career stats than Fitzpatrick.

[nofishfisherman]

They could of got a guy like Fitzpatrick in here for a few mill and he would of beat Ponder out in a fair competition. They didn't want that to happen because they are still hoping their 1st round QB is the guy they were looking for when they drafted him.

The Vikings did get a guy like Fitzpatrick. If you look at Matt Cassel and Fitzpatrick side by side you'll see that they have remarkably similar stat lines with the edge probably going to Cassel. Both have shown they can win in the past but both struggled recently. Its a toss up between Cassel and Fitzpatrick regarding who was the better FA option. If they had signed Fitzpatrick he'd be in the same spot as Cassel right now waiting in the wings for Ponder to blow his last chance.

[FISHINGURU]

Give me Fitz or Palmer over Cassel anyday, even though I wouldn't doubt Cassel ends up being our QB by the end of the season.

Sorry guys I didn't know your so into Cassel lol.

[CaptainMusky]

Give me Fitz or Palmer over Cassel anyday, even though I wouldn't doubt Cassel ends up being our QB by the end of the season.

Sorry guys I didn't know your so into Cassel lol.

What makes you think Fitzpatrick is a better QB? Going off stats hes not. Cassel really hasnt been with a great team the last two years, but neither has Fitz so its pretty much a wash.

I would have rather had Palmer, but you were the one who singled out Fitz and I am not in love with his game vs Cassel. Both comparable QBs IMO, neither outshines the other. Coin toss for me.

[FISHINGURU]

Fitz was just an example because he was a guy we could of easily got, just like Palmer they gave up a 6th round pick for him.

I've never seen Cassel take over a game and win, I have seen Fitz and Palmer, take away Cassels 1 good season filling in for Brady on a Superbowl team and he's pretty much done nothing.

If your so into stats and if thats how your grade players how can Palmer and Cassel be a flip of a coin?

[FISHINGURU]

Nevermind I see you said Fitz and Cassel are a coin toss.

What makes me think Fitz is a better QB is because when I watch him I can see a guy thats a gamer and is out to make big plays with mediocre players around him.

When I watch Cassel I see a guy who's just trying to manage the game and hope to come out with a victory. Probably why we wanted him because it seems that's what type of QB we are always looking for.

[Scott K]

They specifically said there isnt a QB competition, Ponder was starter, and Cassel, was back up. No competition at all. So no need to bring in the best available. They went into it, stating its Ponders job, and he will get every chance to keep it, and learn. I respect that on trying to train young QB's, but the young QB needs to have the tools to be a decent QB, and not have potential to be a game manager. He should be a game manager, and have potential to be a good QB. Those are the QB's that you give the starting job to with no competition.

[nofishfisherman]

I've never seen Cassel take over a game and win, I have seen Fitz and Palmer, take away Cassels 1 good season filling in for Brady on a Superbowl team and he's pretty much done nothing.

Cassel actually had another good year in 2010 with the Chiefs. Statistically speaking his best season with the Chiefs was a much better season than his one year as a starter with New England.

Personally I'd have been fine if the vikes went with Fitz over Cassel, I'm not in love with either one of them. Like said before its a coin toss between the two, both would fill the same roll on the Vikings.

If the vikings knew 100% for sure at the end of last season that Ponder is not the guy then I'd have been fine with looking at Palmer until we could draft another QB. But as it is the vikings needed to give Ponder one last chance. Unfortunately he showed just enough during parts of last season for the vikes to string him along one more year. I'd have preferred he sucked just a little more so there would have been no doubt about it.

[CaptainMusky]

You could be right but getting that mindset without the two being in the same system I think skews the results. I don't think kc has really opened the book for Cassel but fitz was given more latitude or freedom. Ponder doesn't open it up either. Is it the offensives scheme, his skills, the talent around him? Probably all of the above to an extent.

Palmer would have been a nice addition though.

[CaptainMusky]

I wish we would have lost that game to the eagles three seasons ago then there would be no debate at qb because we would have had Luck. Thanks a lot Joe Webb. They should cut him just because of that!

[LMITOUT]

It was the Redskins, not Eagles, and the Vikings would have RGIII right now had they not won that meaningless game where PEDerson got his knee blown out for no reason whatsoever.

Thanks a lot Chilly, I mean, Leslie.

[CaptainMusky]

That's right. I was thinking about the game Webb came in and beat the eagles but that was the season before. You are exactly right about playing Peterson in that redskin game. Completely pointless.

[Big Dave2]

Ponder is terrible and will end up being another failure in a long list of Vikings drafted quarterback failures including but not limited to T-Jack and Joe Webb.

When's the last time that the Vikings drafted a QB that panned out......for the Vikings? Tommy Kramer?

[Alagnak]

Ponder is terrible and will end up being another failure in a long list of Vikings drafted quarterback failures including but not limited to T-Jack and Joe Webb.

When's the last time that the Vikings drafted a QB that panned out......for the Vikings? Tommy Kramer?

Come on you're over reacting. They even said on TV he had a great game and has improved a lot so I was thinking super bowl for sure. It's obvious he throws over everyone's head on purpose, just to be safe. :-) LOL

[zepman]

Culpepper...he was a pro-bowler before he blew his knee out.

I don't know which unit has looked worse this pre-season...our entire offensive line or our 2nd and 3rd string defense. Both have been hard to watch.

Typical Ponder outing...numbers seem ok but still doesn't look like he knows what he's doing. "Indecisive" and "uncomfortable" is how I'd describe tonights and the last three years of his performance.

[Big Dave2]

Culpepper...he was a pro-bowler before he blew his knee out.

Randy Moss even made aging Randall Cunningham and Brad Johnson look good.

[zepman]

you asked....

[harvey lee]

After watching only the 1st half yesterday, I can see the Vikes are on thier way to

Couldn't watch another half of that offense.

[MUSKY18]

Couldn't agree with you more Harvey Lee. Had hoped for a good showing from Ponder, but it seemed on the very first pass attempt of the game is was back in the pocket doing the RiverDance with his feet. Captain Happyfeet looks like he is a high school QB. Its bad. I want to see Cassle get some time with the frist unit to see what he has.

[CANOPY SAM]

It wasn't encouraging, that's for sure.

Not on topic, but what's the deal with Jarrod Allen? They interviewed him last night and he talked about going free agent after this season, and that the Vikes had made no movement to reaquire him? Why?