New Mille Lacs slot

[BrdHunter01]

Gonna put this post out there. Haven't been on this thread in awhile. I planned on netting and exercising my tribal rights as a Mille Lacs Band Member this year. I value our rights. I've never netted. But hearing the state of the lake I'm opting out. Once a healthy balance returns I plan to exercise within the healthy allotment takes. I respect many people's concerns. I've heard of other band members that are not taking part for the same reasons. Grain of salt maybe for die hard tribe opposing factions. Mostly I like to angle Mille Lacs. We can angle and keep any size. This is fine for me. I will exercise this. We will retain our rights, but I do agree a management plan restriction is good. I will harvest my angled fish a couple times this summer and be happy. I did hear angler quota outside of tribe was well over by far last year. Just posting my view as a member who values the quality of the lake.

[fetch]

I'm not saying but I am saying. I didn't see one "native" on the last fishing last year and I was on the lake nearly 3 days a week..?

[kgpcr4]

Too many Musky, Pike and now small mouth and not enough forage fish. Crash the forage and you are hosed. You cant manage the lake for everything but the forage base. Now throw in a few nets to pull fish on their spawning beds and what do you think you are going to get??

[BrdHunter01]

I'm not saying but I am saying. I didn't see one "native" on the last fishing last year and I was on the lake nearly 3 days a week..?

You do realize the natives net the lake before walleye season begins right?

I know natives who live in the area fish the lake a lot. I'm not sure how you would ID them as native if they are just fishing and not netting?

[Amature Hour]

I would like to say I'm writing this without reading this whole post past page 3, because of discuse.

I can not belive the people that live in MN (the state I love, and wouldn't go anywhere else). The way I see it, outdoor news rallies the troops to attack the netting of ML, when the numbers of harvestable size fish drops or when the dnr has a change in slot size. The same paper also attacks the dnr for not doing anything about the state of the lake. And it's always those poor resort owners or fishing guides. My opinoin is if they can aforrd a resort or be a guide, than they can aford to give back to the lake that they make there living off of.

I don't care about the illeagely taken fish.(it doesnt matter the rules it will always happen)I have been to ML 12 times or more. Once by charter boat, once by fish house rental and the rest in my own boat or fish house. I have not one time been checked by the dnr's creel survey. So how does the dnr know how many pounds of fish taken. You got me but they will always know what the netters that have are allowed to take know.

The people that should be held acountable for this decline, is the "poor resort owners and fishing guides" they are the people that know were the fish are every day of the week. Their goal is for you to have a good time and they thinkk that a full limit is a good time for everyone that they carter to.

I think if they cared about the fishiery that supplies their living they would care about its future. If the dnr let them regulate themselfs. I bet would not catch a walleye of any size after 2 years. Its all about making money. And who cares about our kids and there kids.

I DO!

[eastside]

Wow, sorry you feel that way! I'm a guide, and I'm employed by a resort on Mille Lacs Lake. I have also been on the lake for 56 years. Prior to the tribal netting activity. The lake had its ups and downs.....but it has never gone in the tank like it has now!

The slot limits that have been used, which are there because of the netting! have caused the lake to become "SO UNBALANCED" over run with larger fish. The lake is currently short on it's perch population, small year of the class walleye and tullibee.

The resort and guides fault? what about the young waitress at the cafe? the employee at the gas station......when the lake tanks.......how long are they going to have a job along with many others?

I have to disagree

What about the DNR's responsiblity to manage the resoruce?

[upnorth]

Don't forget the fact that there are also more people out there, and with better boats, better locating equipment and not to mention better educated anglers. You think there may just be a few more people in boats fishing the lake and a bit more proficient at catching fish?

Easy to point fingers at the other guys, than it is to look in the mirror.

[Gordie]

Easy to point fingers at the other guys, than it is to look in the mirror.

+1

Just look at the crappies on Red they some what disappeared and those fish were NOT netted.

[Shammy]

Amature hour,

I see your name supersedes itself. You came up with all that after being to the lake 12 times?

[GravelBar]

What I don’t understand is nobody seems to care about the angling rights of the tribe. They can have 10 Walleyes in possession with no size limit! They do not have to be held to the 2” slot we must adhere to. Just a quick scenario:

500 licenses sold

8 days fishing per year

10 fish limit

4 pound average

That’s 160,000 pounds of Walleye with no size restriction. What really gets me is if you can prove you are 2% Native American you can apply for this special license.

Netting and special angling rights are the cause of the decline of Walleyes in Mille Lacs!

[CaptainMusky]

And it's always those poor resort owners or fishing guides. My opinoin is if they can aforrd a resort or be a guide, than they can aford to give back to the lake that they make there living off of.

I didnt agree with much of what you posted, but this was an interesting point.

I have heard from guides in other areas of the state (namely Alexandria) that actually pay money to local lake assoc. to help stock the area lakes they fish.

This is a very nice gesture and one that could potentially be extended elsewhere.

They understand that they are putting more pressure on the fisheries than the recreational angler and do their part to ensure its prosperity continues.

Something like this is easier said than done on a lake the size of Mille Lacs, but interesting none the less.

[laportian]

What I don’t understand is nobody seems to care about the angling rights of the tribe. They can have 10 Walleyes in possession with no size limit! They do not have to be held to the 2” slot we must adhere to. Just a quick scenario:

500 licenses sold

8 days fishing per year

10 fish limit

4 pound average

That’s 160,000 pounds of Walleye with no size restriction. What really gets me is if you can prove you are 2% Native American you can apply for this special license.

Netting and special angling rights are the cause of the decline of Walleyes in Mille Lacs!

C'mon Gravel. Quit reaching. Misinformation at its ugliest. Sad.

Have to be a Mille Lacs Band member to get a license. You have to prove 1/4 Mille Lacs blood quantum for enrollment. Not simply 2% indian blood. Get real and quit spreading misinformation. I bet its dozens that actually get out and hook and line fish with any regularity. I'm sure they can reel in 160,000 pounds.

[BrdHunter01]

That graph is pointless!

First, not all fish are recorded and weighed on both sides of the isle.

Second, most of the walleyes netted by the bands are males as they stay in the shallows spawning much much longer than females. And it is the Male population of walleyes that has been in question for years now!

Third, anglers have harvested fish for as long as the lake has been around. Funny, the lake didn't start taking a nose dive until the nets were set!

[walleye18]

great point BrdHunter01.

Thats the way I see it too.

[upnorth]

That graph is pointless!

First, not all fish are recorded and weighed on both sides of the isle.

Second, most of the walleyes netted by the bands are males as they stay in the shallows spawning much much longer than females. And it is the Male population of walleyes that has been in question for years now!

Third, anglers have harvested fish for as long as the lake has been around. Funny, the lake didn't start taking a nose dive until the nets were set!

A few years ago there was a debate about netting etc and one of the Native Americans referred to the anglers as being selfish. I was rather offended by that. But reading stuff like this, I can truly see where he got it from.

[laportian]

Problem with Mille Lacs isn't netting alone. It is up to 3 million angler hours a year, the thousands of zeebs per square foot, it's spiny water fleas, it's slots, it's cormorants, it's milfoil, it's muskies, it's no tulibees, it's no young perch, it's smallies, it's climate change...and on and on and on. But you good ole boys keep on blaming the Indians. It just makes more sense.

[BrdHunter01]

A few years ago there was a debate about netting etc and one of the Native Americans referred to the anglers as being selfish. I was rather offended by that. But reading stuff like this, I can truly see where he got it from.

How is that selfish? Those are FACTS

[Gordie]

How is that selfish? Those are FACTS

[upnorth]

How is that selfish? Those are FACTS

They take a smaller share of the take, yet you want them to give up theirs so yours will be more. Can't get any better example than that.

[thatoneguy]

That graph is pointless!

[Shack]

That graph is pointless!

First, not all fish are recorded and weighed on both sides of the isle.

Second, most of the walleyes netted by the bands are males as they stay in the shallows spawning much much longer than females. And it is the Male population of walleyes that has been in question for years now!

Third, anglers have harvested fish for as long as the lake has been around. Funny, the lake didn't start taking a nose dive until the nets were set!

Originally Posted By: BrdHunter01

How is that selfish? Those are FACTS

BrdHunter what facts? Because you posted what you did after coming to those assumptions or hearing or reading them they then become fact?

At least laportain brought a chart with him.

Quote:

Problems have surfaced at Mille Lacs, the state's premier walleye lake.

The primary concern is that not enough small walleye are becoming big walleye because of increased mortality rates on small walleye. A second concern is that mature male walleye numbers have decreased. A final concern is that the lake is becoming increasingly complex and unpredictable due to the presence of zebra mussels, spiny water fleas and Eurasian watermilfoil. The lake continues to have ample walleye spawning stock and more than sufficient hatches of walleye.

As one of the managers of the lake's fishery, DNR accepts responsibility for this situation and improving it as quickly as possible. It will work with the local community, anglers and bands to accomplish that goal while minimizing impacts on the local economy and broader fishing community. While fish population models have been predicting declines over the past several years, the rate of decline in the 2012 gill net assessment was greater than anticipated.

Visit this webpage for regular updates on DNR's ongoing efforts. Learn about the biological makeup of Mille Lacs Lake and the aquatic life that inhabits it. Go into the field with fisheries biologists and researchers and see the work they're doing. Discover ways you, as an angler or boater, can do your part to maintain healthy fish and the fishery in which they live.

Time and experience have proven that Mille Lacs is a resilient walleye and multi-species fishery for the anglers of Minnesota and tourists beyond our borders. A combination of small-fish-friendly regulations and cooperation among all users now will build and enhance the long-term sustainability of the fishery.

The result will be a vibrant and consistent tourism industry on Mille Lacs and a renowned lake that remains a prime destination for anglers from the Twin Cities and greater Midwest region.

Reference: Minnesota DNR

Even the Minnesota's DNR speculation is subject to question as (I believe) they trying to obtain more accurate readings by doing further tests in the coming months to get an official idea if the Mille Lacs male walleye is really in jeopardy.

Not concerning the male walleye in general but from personal experiences from members and staffers here and other anglers in my personal life, Mille Lacs has been pretty good with both eaters and trophy fish this past winter.

Personally, the only "thing" on Mille Lacs that has seemed to change is the transitioning patterns and areas of both walleye and perch. The guides I know and follow get their clients fish and changing the way they target these species has seemed to be both hard and the key in success. So maybe it's time the DNR change their ways in how they conduct their surveys on the lake but if I recall they are. The margin of error in the traditional way they sample the lake is way too huge to IMO to deem anything from one season to the next.

Has the lake changed in the past half-decade? Of course! Is there a definitive answer as to what to pinpoint the cause as? NO! Maybe it’s nothing more than a natural slump or just the lake naturally accounting for something that should be lumped into a greater category than pointing the finger at one single aspect.

Although a huge fruitless venture and one which I feel is a waste of time even pursuing, but debating the fact that tribal netting is unfair to the rest of those who fish Mille lacs is one thing. Declaring "fact" and arguing that tribal netting of Mille Lacs is destroying the lake as a fishery is (IMHO) lazy, one sided and certainly in bad taste. Almost everyone who takes this subject up and is against the bands rights to harvest Mille Lacs comes across as a darb. It does more harm for the lake than good. For gosh sakes, I believe it was even said a year or back that even P.E.T.A. would not protest the tribal harvest rights of the bands and their harvesting practices. I refuse to sink to this level and certainly partake any discussion of this nature because the facts are still out for debate and pure speculation is what is being spread.

[Shack]

Just to add to what I covered above. Reference: Click Here

It is possible that a single year's netting such as last fall's assessment results could be wrong, but it is much less likely that the long-term trends observed in walleye abundance are not reflecting real changes. We will conduct a fish population estimate this spring to determine how accurately our models predicted the walleye population size. We will be tagging 20,000 walleye as part of a mark-and-recapture assessment as soon as the ice goes out. We will know more about the overall population starting by the end of June when we get tagging results back from our survey nets and anglers who have caught a tagged fish. We will also be conducting a new study to make estimates of prey consumption by predatory fish. We will keep you informed of our findings via DNR web pages. What we learn, you'll learn.

Originally Posted By: Minnesota DNR

The DNR can't prohibit tribal netting because the federal courts have ruled that eight Chippewa Indian bands can regulate their own harvest of walleye free from state regulation so long as their actions do not compromise public health, public safety or conservation. The DNR has raised conservation concerns with the bands in the past year based on observed changes in population structure, some of which may have resulted from too many years of state and band harvest on too many smaller and younger walleye. The bands have voluntarily reduced their walleye harvest allocation from 142,500 pounds to 71,250 pounds for the 2013 fishing season. DNR will continue to strongly advocate for changes necessary for conservation of walleye and other fish populations.

[Red Miller]

For someone who refuses to sink to this level and partake in any discussion of this nature, you sure have expelled a lot of wind defending a position that is clearly indefensible. I am just going to come right out and say it. Netting during the spawn is lazy and greedy. It causes unnecessary damage to the resource in the interest of expediency and expending as little energy as possible doing it. It displays a total lack of regard for the future of the lake. And regarding Brdhunters "facts", exactly which one of his facts do you dispute?

[GravelBar]

Laportian, I don't care if it takes 50% bloodline to get a tribal angling license.The facts are I'm limited to a possesion limit of 2 Walleyes between 18 and 20 inches. Now the same people that netted the lake and caused the restriction have an amgling possesion limit of 10 with no size restriction is just plain wrong.

[laportian]

Gravelbar- they are within their reservation boundries. They can set their hook and line rules how they see fit. That argument would be akin to me complaining about liberal limits and longer seasons in North Dakota while residing here in Bemidji. Remember reservations supercedes state. Think about it.

Fetch-Can you really think that statement is appropriate? Whomever moderates this should leave it up as an example that racism is a nasty fact and all.

[GravelBar]

Laportian, My apologies for rude statements such as provided by Fetch. No room for that on this forum.

[theharvester]

arent all men created equal?

[laportian]

Harvester- yes and no. Big question. No easy answers are there? My take on it is yes in the human sense or biological relm of things we are all created equal. It changes though once we throw society into the mix. Things that were in place long before we were born are set in place for us to be who we are. Wether it be from a class/socio-economic to a flat out race thing; then no all men are not created equal.

GravelBar-you dont need to apologize for someone elses racism. In all groups there are fools who hold onto prejudices and hatred. Alot of us have them it is just that we use common sense and don't let our inner racist out. Or out in public too loudly!

[fetch]

not racisim maybe you can put it under sterotyping if that makes you feel better. isint thinking and saying the same thing? so you think it and i say it whats the difference?

the world is not full of candy canes and gum drops.

as a sportsman if you think there is nothing wring with gillnetting and fish during a spawn you are seriously blind. if your ok paying your taxes and the money pays to plow the road to the casino and you reap nothing from it. nothing! all thats asked from you is more and more. and you keep getting more taken away. it is a public lake? good for 1 is good for all i thought? anyhow keep on paying those taxes and spending money at the casino. the "natives" thank you . afterall nothing more native than gambeling!

[thatoneguy]

no, you're a racist, fetch. Anytime you label an entire race with a pejorative term, you're a racist. You may as well be man enough to own up to it.

There is certainly reason to be concerned about netting during the spawn given the problems Mille Lacs faces.. You can certainly register those concerns without sounding like a klan member.