possession/cleaning fish in sleeper (yes..again)

[LOWinEYEin]

Yes I've see this topic a ton but never read it b/c we always got the day house :-) so how does it work once the fish is consumed? And does the possession only include adults?

Thanks

[pinkfloyd4ever]

possession is possession regardless of size.

This is just an educated (??) guess, but there are daily limits so if you and your party are allowed 9 fish in a day and catch 9 you've caught your limit. Now if you consumed 6 of them, you now possess 3 which should allow you to catch another 6 fish, starting at midnight the following day ????

Wow, that one hurt the noggin this early in the morning. Reading that again I don't know if that makes sense or not it was more off the top of my head. I just know one can't, in theory, catch a daily limit of Walleye to take home and on top of that have 60 of them already in the freezer

[CANOPY SAM]

6 fish daily limit, 6 fish possession limit = 6 fish per day.

Eat 6 of em' that day = you're still DONE fishing that day.

[401TE]

More accurately, you are done keeping that day. You can still fish, just have to immediately release any further fish of the species you are limited out on.

[uffdapete]

Pg 57 from 2012 regs: For Lake of the Woods from Dec. 1, 2012 - Apr. 14, 2013 - possession limit is 8 and not more than 4 can be walleye.

Also just realized (pretty sure at least) that the only species where the daily limit and possession limit are different is for perch on inland waters. Border waters have different regs for perch. I thought the possession and daily limit for all species was the same across the board.

Please don't hesitate to correct that if you read something different.

[CANOPY SAM]

Actually, 401TE, I'm pretty sure, once you've kept (creeled, stringered, coolered, filleted, live welled, deep fried/and/or ingested) your possession/daily limit, you are expected to stop fishing for that particular species. Otherwise you run the risk of killing another fish that you cannot lawfully keep any longer.

If you stop putting fish in the creel, one fish short of your limit, you can lawfully continue fishing as long as you want. But once you've filled your "limit", you are expected to stop. Hence the title "possession" limit. If you've got a limit at home in the freezer, you're not supposed to go out fishing, at least for that particular species, until you eat a few of em' up.

Pretty sure the DNR would back me up on this one.

[Akerman]

.....but who's to say your not trying to fish for a different species after you have a limit?

[bturck]

A lot of the same presentations can apply more than one species ie: walleye/ sauger. Even though I have my 4 eyes can still jig a buckshot for sauger or even perch or pout

[401TE]

Actually, 401TE, I'm pretty sure, once you've kept (creeled, stringered, coolered, filleted, live welled, deep fried/and/or ingested) your possession/daily limit, you are expected to stop fishing for that particular species. Otherwise you run the risk of killing another fish that you cannot lawfully keep any longer.

If you stop putting fish in the creel, one fish short of your limit, you can lawfully continue fishing as long as you want. But once you've filled your "limit", you are expected to stop. Hence the title "possession" limit. If you've got a limit at home in the freezer, you're not supposed to go out fishing, at least for that particular species, until you eat a few of em' up.

Pretty sure the DNR would back me up on this one.

All due respect, and I am not trying to argue mods...but the correct answer is you can keep fishing. The regs say once a limit is reached no live well sorting or culling is allowed. You can keep fishing, just have to immediately release according to their definition. There is nothing in the regs that forbids catching and releasing after you get your limit. If you kill a fish, it has to go back down the hole.

[CANOPY SAM]

Really? But wouldn't that then be wanton waste? I'd always been told that once you've filled your limit of a particular species you are no longer allowed to fish for that species.

Yes, one could certainly say they are no longer fishing for "that" fish, and that is your prerogative. I've just always been told differently.

BTW, appreciate the respect. I'm not arguing either. Just wanna get the facts straight.

As tomorrow is a holiday, I wonder if the DNR offices are open? I'll give them a call and see what they have to say about this. I'll report back as soon as I can get an answer.

[merkman]

Really? But wouldn't that then be wanton waste?

Catch and release in open seasons has no limits from my understanding.

I dont know how you could ever regulate it any other way?

.

[Boar]

401T Thanks for bringing that up, this question arises every season an I try an tell freinds that you are right, you can keep fishing, just can never seem to find it in the regs, I know its there, last year it was posted here, so if you can find it that be cool to see an for others too. Thanks

[CANOPY SAM]

Okay. For the sake of final clarification, and my own understanding, I made two calls to the MN DNR today, and spoke with 2 different folks there. I also read thru the fishing regs in regard to daily/possession limits.

As I stated earlier, and this was confirmed by both people I spoke with at the DNR (one was a Big Lake Specialist with the DNR), once you creel the last fish of a "limit" of a particular species in your possession, you are now, by law, expected to cease fishing for that species.

If you continue fishing, with a limit of fish in possession, and are caught or approached by a Conservation Officer, and happen to catch another fish of that species while they are observing you, even if it's not currently your alleged "target species", you will indeed be cited and ticketed for too many fish in possession...even though you may intend to immediately release the fish.

I doubt very much that anyone follows this rule accordingly, as it is not articulated anywhere in the fishing regulations handbook. None-the-less, it is an unspoken, enforced rule. It does make sense.

One might compare it to filling a limit of ducks, grouse, or other game, and then continuing to hunt just for the sheer pleasure of enjoying the hunt. If, for only a moment, you are in possession of any species of game above and beyond your daily/possession limit, you are considered "over" your limit.

[Boar]

Well son of gun. there gose that. another one bites the dust.

[bturck]

I have to take issue with the DNR answer: I'm fishing with a small Buckshot for example and have caught my 4 walleyes, now I'm referring to LOW limits, I see absolutely no reason why I cannot continue to use this same lure as I pursue my limit of sauger (4).if I were to catch a fish of which I already possess my limit it would released immediately. I don't think being charged with a slot fish which many of us have caught would be a supportable charge as I'm unhooking and releasing this fish, even though it is against the law to possess a slot fish. Now I have caught my aggregate limit of walleye and sauger. Now I see no reason to abandon that lure as I still have the legal right to catch and possess perch which can be caught on that lure, I know I've caught eyes,sauger and perch on this same lure. Now if you're using a daredevil to troll for northern and you have your limit of norther it would pretty hard to convince anyone that you are trolling a daredevil or red eye wiggler for sunfish or crappie. That in my mind is specifically targeting a particulars species. As far as continuing to hunt ducks, geese, or grouse...pretty hard to shoot and release, that's isa totally different scenario without relevancy to this topic. Sorry I just cannot buy into this answer by the DNR. If I were ticketed for this "supposed" offense I would fight it and produce evidence to contradict this charge.......I'm done

[oboyoboyoboy]

After talking to the DNR it should be clear. But on page 3 of the regulations it defines what possession means. Immediate catch and release is not possession. Here's the script out of the book:

"Immediately released or returned to the water– Fish must not be retained longer than is needed at the site of capture to unhook, identify,measure, and photograph. Placing the fish in any type of container or on a stringer is not immediately released. Any fish not immediately released is considered to be “reduced to possession.”

Daily and possession limits (bags)– For most species of fish, the

daily and possession limit is the same. One exception would be the inland

limit on yellow perch, which is 20 per day and 40 in possession. The daily

and possession limits include fish possessed by the person at all locations

including such places as livewell, cold storage, at home, or at a resort.

Daily limit is the number of fish an angler can take in one calendar day.

Eating those fish or gifting them away on the same day does not allow an

angler to possess additional fish taken in the same calendar day."

There is still the moral issue that you may kill a fish while catching and releasing. But by law, or at least the regulation book , you can keep on fishing. You don't even need to play the game of saying you are fishing for another species. I would certainly be surprised if someone wrote a ticket for me catching a 5th walleye while going for sauger if I immediately return the walleye. Technically I think I should be able to catch and release walleyes all day long as long as I don't keep more than 4.

Might be a great topic for North Country Outdoor Radio?

[401TE]

Okay. For the sake of final clarification, and my own understanding, I made two calls to the MN DNR today, and spoke with 2 different folks there. I also read thru the fishing regs in regard to daily/possession limits.

As I stated earlier, and this was confirmed by both people I spoke with at the DNR (one was a Big Lake Specialist with the DNR), once you creel the last fish of a "limit" of a particular species in your possession, you are now, by law, expected to cease fishing for that species.

If you continue fishing, with a limit of fish in possession, and are caught or approached by a Conservation Officer, and happen to catch another fish of that species while they are observing you, even if it's not currently your alleged "target species", you will indeed be cited and ticketed for too many fish in possession...even though you may intend to immediately release the fish.

I doubt very much that anyone follows this rule accordingly, as it is not articulated anywhere in the fishing regulations handbook. None-the-less, it is an unspoken, enforced rule. It does make sense.

One might compare it to filling a limit of ducks, grouse, or other game, and then continuing to hunt just for the sheer pleasure of enjoying the hunt. If, for only a moment, you are in possession of any species of game above and beyond your daily/possession limit, you are considered "over" your limit.

PM me the names and numbers of the folks you spoke with...sounds like I need to educate a couple people at the DNR. I'm a prosecutor. I went digging and this is exactly what the pertinent rules and statutes say:

Minnesota Rule 6262.0100, Subpart 5:

A. Fish that are taken by angling and not immediately released into the water after capture are considered to be in possession. Once a limit of fish has been reduced to possession, no culling or live well sorting (the act of replacing one fish with another one) of that species is allowed.

C. Once a person or persons fishing as a party as provided in Minnesota Statutes, section 97C.317, retain a daily limit for a species, all fish of that species that are subsequently taken must be immediately released into the water after capture.

E. It is unlawful for a person to have in possession, regardless of where taken, any fish in excess of or outside of the limits for that water body when fishing in that water. A person must immediately return to the water any fish that is taken by angling that is in excess of or outside the limits.

Minnesota Statute 97A.015, subdivsion 26c, defines Immediately Release. "Immediately released" or "immediately returned to the water" means that a fish must not be retained longer than is needed at the site of capture to unhook, identify, measure, or photograph the fish. Placing a fish on a stringer, in a live well, or in a cooler, bucket, or other container is not "immediately released" or "immediately returned to the water."

Bottom line is you can legally keep fishing once a limit is reached if you practice catch and release, don't cull or livewell sort, and "immediately release" any subsequent fish of that particular species that you catch.

Send me the names and contact info Canopy Sam, I'd like to clear this up with the folks you spoke with.

[Boar]

I can agrree with ya bill, totally invalid, A C.O. is gona write me a tickit cause i have my 4 eyes in possession, while still fishing for my four sauger or bonus 10 perch on LOW, then as he's talking to me I catch a nother eyeball, an writes me a ticket? Dont think thats gonna happen. Sounds like the same people C SAM talke to are the same ones who botched the bear lottery two years ago. Just didnt feel like debating it, after all it comes from the DNR. But I think the info that the officals are refering to is the inland state wide waters, LOW is a really a seperate entity, Walleys close mid april, pike are year round, ect. Just find it really laughable that an DNR offical says if you limited out with a certain species that if you catch another of the same species while fishing legally for another, youve violated the law. Dont fly with me.

[ZapMan]

+1

[CANOPY SAM]

It appears, according to the regulations printed, that this wouldn't be unlawful...to continue fishing.

I think Boar nailed it on the head with his comment about Lake of the Woods. The presence of saugers in the system, as part of a combined possession limit of walleyes and saugers (or all saugers) does seem to possibly change the game a bit. I was also thinking about the Bear Lottery info that was discussed last fall. That was an obvious discrepancy, and kind of embarrassing for the DNR.

To be completely honest, after reading the regs, when I called the DNR about this I really expected to be told we could keep fishing. I was surprised that the people I spoke with were so vehement about quitting once the daily/possession limit was reached.

I didn't get specific names, so in the middle of writing this, I made another call to the DNR, just to again verify the information from yesterday's inquiry. This time I spoke with an enforcement specialist.

I explained the situation again, in detail, and was again told that we are indeed expected to stop fishing for a particular species once we have our limit.

I also brought up the Lake of the Woods scenario. In this instance, with a 4 walleye limit in possession, we can continue to fish for saugers, and this time I was told, if we were to "incidentally" catch a walleye while being observed by a CO, we would not be ticketed, as long as we immediately unhooked and released the fish. The gentlemen I spoke to emphasized that culling/sorting was not lawful...which is obvious in the regs.

However, once we have our 4 walleye, and 4 sauger in possession, and we have reached our daily/possession limit, we are expected to stop fishing...unless we're fishing for perch, or another species.

So I believe this brings us back to the beginning. If, by chance, the walleye bite is absolutely phenomenal, and you want to keep fishing for, and catching and releasing walleyes (on inland waters at least), you may only creel up to one fish short of your daily/possession limit, if you want to continue to fish for walleyes just for fun. If you incidentally kill one of the fish, you must keep it, which completes your limit. Once you keep your last fish of the limit, you're done.

You cannot, and should not, push a dead (game fish) fish down the hole, to avoid completing your limit. This is considered, by law, wanton waste.

In summation, it appears everyone here is correct. You can keep fishing, but not specifically for the species you've filled your limit on. You cannot continue fishing specifically for that species of fish just for fun. So, on Lake of the Woods, if you have your walleye/sauger limit, you can continue to fish for perch or pike, or in any other body of water in our state that has other species present.

The "enforcement specialist" I just spoke with moments ago did say that the individuals who spoke with me yesterday were wrong[/b] about the issue of a ticket if the intent is to immediately release the fish.

There. Clear as mud!

[bturck]

CanopySam: Sounds a lot like the IRS, talk to 6 people and get 10 different answers. I was never taking issue with your post only the answer that those you talked to had given you, which per your post above was totally in error from the first DNR contact person. Yes it is now clear as mud, until the next time.

[Boar]

Sooooooooo, what would the differece be if we creel up one short to keep fishing or just keep fishing thou we have met our limit?

[CANOPY SAM]

Ha ha ha...good question!

I suppose, on Lake of the Woods, it wouldn't really make ANY difference, as you can always say you're now just trying to catch a few of those elusive Jumbo Perch.

I don't really know. As was mentioned earlier, this is obviously a "gray" area that would be nearly impossible to enforce, unless one was fishing in a lake where ONLY walleye (or one particular species) were present. I personally only know of a few lakes in all of Minnesota where only one species of fish swim, and these are only stocked Rainbow Trout lakes.

I imagine the "safest" way to insure you don't get into a wanton waste situation is to always stay one fish short of your limit until you're ready to quit for the day. Then simply keep the last fish you catch. That way, if indeed you do end up deep hooking a fish (that will likely die) while fishing for "fun", you can simply add it to your limit, and call it a day.

I suppose this is precisely why this law, or "alleged" law, isn't spelled out in the regulation book. Some of these issues are so darn multifaceted, and complicated, I don't know how you could put them into words that everyone would understand.

Lastly, the original poster mentioned something about does this also apply to age groups, or youth, or something like that. I'm not sure if that was aimed at young fish, or young people, but I believe it would be applied the same either way. A fish is a fish, no matter what age or size, and your kids have the same daily/possession limits as we do as adults. Yourself and two of your kids = 3 daily/possession limits of fish...no matter what the size of the fish. With the exception of protected "slot" fish, of course.

[401TE]

Please get names next time. This is not a gray area, the law is clear. You are allowed to keep fishing even once you have your limit as long as you stay within the rules I posted above. If anyone on here gets a ticket for this I want to know. Thanks!

[Boar]

What i meant was, If one has to to stop fishing when one is limited out. Why? If one is to creel up to one short of the the limit to keep fishing, what is the difference to the DNR. Your continuing to fish. The proper answer is of course 1 fish. duh. but im asking,Reagarless one is still fishing, catching an releasing, weather one is continuing to release to not limit out or has limited out an fishing, catching an releasing. Theres no difference so why should one have to stop when limited out. Is that what the DNR wants us to do catch our 4 an go home? If so then the first 4 walleyes we catch under slot is the four we keep, but no we selective harvest to keep the most desirable size to eat. We are expected to stop fishing when limited out, thats a bunch of SH it. I dont see thier basis for us to stop fishing when limited out. We can catch 30-40 walleye before we we dcied which 4 we want for the pan, we can catch 30-40 walley while fishing with one fish short of the limit or we can catch 30-40 walleye after having limited out. No difference. Just a for instance to tryan make a point, dont think thers been to many times Ive caught that many walleye.LOL!

[kfk]

Good points Boar. I've been checked by the DNR in the summer on LOW when I've had my limit but still fishing more than once without any problems. I don't think it's a gray area at all. You can definitley catch and release all the fish you want to with a limit in possession.

A fish isn't in your possession until it's dropped into a livewell, cooler or something like that.

One thing that is definitley against the law is culling fish to upgrade sizes. Once they're in possession, they can't be legally replaced with larger fish.

[fivebucks]

Actually you may cull fish prior to reaching your limit. It is kinda hard to do in the winter though.

From the regs: "Once a daily or possession limit of fish has been reached, no culling or live well sorting is allowed. No culling is allowed on Mille Lacs or Wisconsin border waters (see pages 33 and 64-66)."

[CANOPY SAM]

Again, I believe, if I'm understanding these guys correctly, the difference is...

If you have your daily/possession limit in hand, selectively sorting thru fish to get the most desirable sized limit (legal - although immediately releasing what you don't want rather than culling from a stringer or live well), and you now continue to fish for fun, but incidentally kill another fish while doing so, where does the last dead fish go since you already have your limit?

Perhaps I'm not understanding this correctly either, and so I cannot convey accurately the information that was given me by three different people at the DNR. I'm really sorry guys, but this would probably be solved better for all of you if you were to each make a call to the DNR.

It's really simple. There's a toll free contact number at their website (or in every reg book). Give em' a call. I talk with DNR reps fairly often about various issues. They're good folks who want to help us stay within the boundaries of the law, and help us to be good stewards of the rich resources we have here.

It would be better for you to talk with them directly about all these questions rather than have me be the "go between". Best of luck to each of you. God Bless. Sam.

[kye1020]

Just do as I do. 8 combination walley/sauger caught....Stop fishing, crack a beer in celebration of a great day on the ice!

[northerndave]

Don't ask the DNR anything, how do you think they come up with these rules?

They get all their ideas from us.

When I was a kid I had an albino porcupine platypus as a pet.

He was color blind, he was also a vegan, which made it difficult to take him to restaurants.

Well, one day I was out swimming at the state park with my color blind, vegan, albino, porcupine, platypus when a park ranger and a CO started asking questions about Quinton (I named him Quinton).

Well, it only took 20 minutes and they had a new law in MN that does not allow you to have color blind vegan albino porcupine platypus as pets.

Before my chat with DNR it was perfectly legal.

So don't go calling them up and asking if it's legal to chum for walleye with a blood worm/freshwater shrimp slurry, or is it legal to feed your minnows red bull before you hook them, or is it legal to use remote controlled underwater drones to scout for fish, is it legal to seduce fish with romantic fish music etc...

Just don't talk to them, they wreck everything cool and fun.