Male Dogs Question

[thedanimalkmk]

I have a 3.5 year old intact male lab and a 2.5 year old in tact vizsla. Last night they got in a pretty serious fight and the vizsla ended up with a big tear in his ear. After an expensive trip to the vet he is on the mend. My question is, how do I reintroduce the dogs to each other? I have been thinking about it all night and have not come up with a way that me or my wife is comfortable with. About the only thing I could think of was making them wear muzzels until they are snipped (I know that won't be an instant fix) They are both getting visits to the vets this week to have thier man parts removed which I'm sure a lot of you will suggest anyways. I know this should have been done when they were puppies but it wasn't so please don't give me the responsible owner story.

Some further background: these dogs are fed along side each other everyday and they have never shown signs of being food aggressive. Prior to this incident they were like big/little brother although as he has gotten older the vizsla has challenged(growled and tugged on his skin) the lab a little bit more. Sorry if this seems scatter brsined but I did not sleep to much last night.

Thanks ahead of time for sny help.

Dan

[oly and svens]

my cousin had the same problem with his two shorthairs . his wife came home one afternoon to find what looked like a murder seen in the kennel. they had to split the kennel in half .seems that the younger one was always nipping or trying to instagate something and it finnily came to a head .when they have them in the house or boat or where they can supervise them there fine . they just cant kennel them together anymore. good luck !

[Todd Caswell]

Getting them fixed may help but it's not the cure. Sounds like the younger dog is trying to move up the ladder in the pecking order.And the older dog isn't giving in.Most important is that you're at the very top dog, any sign of a fight posturing,hackles up, growling ECT. Should be dealt with and stopped by you immediately. You said this just happened but I would guess there have been little things leading up to this that you have missed or wrote off as ruff housing.You being the top dog and not putting up with ANY thing will take care of the problem. I know plenty of people that live with intact males and females. You just have to be the one who rules the roost.

[LABS4ME]

Agreed 100%! All too often owners write off snarls and growls as OK... They are not... They should be dealt with immediately before they continue to escalate. I see it often when out hunting in which someone's dog will growl when another enters it's space... The owner will not correct it... I tell them it's a pre-courser to a dog that any eventual continue to morph into a fighter. Watched a few dogs that turned into fighters over a couple of years of owners letting them get away with growling and little snapping. A couple times they were not allowed to join hunting groups if they brought their dogs.

From here it will take an iron hand with your two dogs. Absolutely zero tolerance for any aggression. It needs to be dealt with quickly and severely. Crate them up side by side when you cannot monitor them. They will get it figured out if you are rigid and consistent.

Good luck!

Ken

[thedanimalkmk]

Thanks guys for the quick response. The young one is always pushing the older one. I did not spend as much time with training him as I should so he trys to get away with things. He has growled at me when I have seperated them. How should I deal with this. I usually pull him out of the other dogs sight and hold him down until he submits. This has taken a couple of minutes some time. At the first sign of posturing what should be my response? It looks like back to the leash and check cord with him to reinforce basic commands with him.

They are both e collar trained but they never have them on in the house. Should I use those to reinforce the commands that they know? I hesitate to do that because I don't want one dog thinking the other dog is hurting it. Again, I cannot thank you guys enough for all the help.

When they have ruff housed in the past it has usually been over a bone. I have removed all the bones from the house and their toys which they liked to playruff with. Any other info would be great.

Thanks agian HSO family.

Dan

[Todd Caswell]

I don't feel the collar should ever be used in situation like this, Iv'e seen dog fights where the button was held down and it only makes it worse. Any correction has to come from you at this point not a collar wrapped around his neck.Here's how I how I handle it. Go get your self a cheap yellow whiffle ball bat, keep it in the corner where it's readily accesable. Any sign of this should be dealt with a very sharp verble command to knock it off, if you need to tell them twice then the instagater gets a crack on the arse as well. The whiffle bat is nice because it makes more noise than any thing. I keep one in the truck and one in the house and they are rarely get used. Your wife is going to have to be part of this as well if you want to be able to trust them together when your not home.

[thedanimalkmk]

Todd-

I think your way sounds easy and direct. My wife is fully on board with whatever she needs to do to correct this problem. Thank you again for the help.

Dan

[Ufatz]

I suspect nobody is going to like or agree with my thoughts but FWIW: If a dog of mine growled at me or in any way challenged me he would have to leave my household, regardless how much I liked him. If you have to dramatically alter the "life style" of your household to accomodate a dog that wants to fight, that growls at your wife and at you on tense occasions I would seriously consider passing him along to someone else.

I trully hope you don't have to do this, but it might well be that after the next episode you will start to consider that I am not so unfeeling after all.

[thedanimalkmk]

Ufatz- If I cannot get this problem corrected he will be removed from the home and it won't take something as bad as the first episode. Him growling at me did not take place in the house, it was outdoors at the family cabin with several other dogs around. He is generally very mild tempered dog. I will not tolerate a dog that thinks he is above me or my wife in the pecking order of the household.

Dan

[BLACKJACK]

Agreed 100%! All too often owners write off snarls and growls as OK... They are not... They should be dealt with immediately before they continue to escalate. I see it often when out hunting in which someone's dog will growl when another enters it's space... The owner will not correct it... I tell them it's a pre-courser to a dog that any eventual continue to morph into a fighter. Watched a few dogs that turned into fighters over a couple of years of owners letting them get away with growling and little snapping. A couple times they were not allowed to join hunting groups if they brought their dogs.

Ken

You got that right!!! We had a guy in our group with a very dominant female lab, first time we introduced our dogs, she jumped on my female lab, she continually tried to dominate all the dogs in our group, even the males, standing over them and growling. Our dogs knew not to fight, but he couldn't see it, his dog was perfect. WE eventually got into a fight over it and he left. Good riddance.

[jparrucci]

I have an 8 year old brittany and a 3 month old. The older dog is mellow and let's the pup do just about whatever he wants. He will growl and bark at the puppy when the pup is jumping on him, but I fear he is too submissive and the pup will act like this towards other dogs that aren't so friendly. At what point do a stop the behavior in the pup? The old dog seems annoyed at time, but seems to enjoy it at others. I was hoping the old dog would eventually nip the young one and put him in his place, but it looks like that isn't happening. Should I let the rough housing continue, slow it down, or stop it completely?

[Todd Caswell]

I have an 8 year old brittany and a 3 month old. The older dog is mellow and let's the pup do just about whatever he wants. He will growl and bark at the puppy when the pup is jumping on him, but I fear he is too submissive and the pup will act like this towards other dogs that aren't so friendly. At what point do a stop the behavior in the pup? The old dog seems annoyed at time, but seems to enjoy it at others. I was hoping the old dog would eventually nip the young one and put him in his place, but it looks like that isn't happening. Should I let the rough housing continue, slow it down, or stop it completely?

Iv'e been lucky I have a 13 year old female that has helped raise 6 puppy's ( not her own) and she will growl and show her teeth but that's it, I was very careful with the first couple but then I grew to trust her teaching them right from wrong and they have and still do respect her. At this pups age I would start to intervene a bit and let the pup know it's not exceptable.

I had a male ( the sire to my two young dogs) that could not be trusted with puppy's period, he was fine with older dogs but puppy's weren't his thing and bad things can happen in an instant, see picture below.