Black gun ban?

[Moose-Hunter]

Just so ya know...

On the left... A CLIP. On the right... A MAGAZINE.

Confusing the two, honestly make you look quite uninformed. Kind of like that "barrel shroud" and "shoulder thing that goes up" comments.

Next... Can you tell me the difference in these two rifles?

If you said, "one has a scope"... You're RIGHT!! Both are chambered the same. Both operate the same. And before you talk of ammo capacity, BOTH have the ability to hold as few as five and as many as you could dream of with the proper modification. I even have a bolt action .22 that holds 20+ rounds. You could have said color, but that would have been racist!!

Banning certain firearms is useless since criminals by definition will continue to break the law. Banning high capacity MAGAZINES will do nothing except further regulate lawful sport shooters. The whole debate is a tactical face palm at best since more laws WILL NOT STOP ANYTHING!!!

[Fishinguy40]

But the "Black Gun" in your picture is not "AS" dangerous because it doesn't have collapsible stock

[Moose-Hunter]

But the "Black Gun" in your picture is not "AS" dangerous because it doesn't have collapsible stock

You don't mean that ominous looking "shoulder thing that goes up"? The HORROR!!!

(Bwahahaha... I crack myself up... )

[simple1]

Shoulder things that go up are scary, speak of them no more!

[Ray1]

Moose- Can you clean some of your pms out. I would like to use your post.

Very well explained.

[Moose-Hunter]

Moose- Can you clean some of your pms out. I would like to use your post.

Very well explained.

Done! Fire away! I mean... Go ahead and contact me if you'd like.

[nobody05]

So what's the deal with the permit to purchase? I had somebody try to tell me the other day that you need a permit to purchase an Ar-15. Myself and 5 other buddies of mine have all bought them without permit to purchase over the course of 3 years. So obiously you dont need one.

[LMITOUT]

Yes, you do need a "permit to purchase" card to buy an AR-15 unless it is a private party transaction and the seller doesn't want to go through the transfer process.

[nobody05]

Well the two dealers that i bought from never even asked. Just filled out the regular form. And out the door I was. There must be a loop hole or something that he is getting around it being I'm sure he knows what he is doing otherwise you could be knee deep in [PoorWordUsage] really quick.

[nonteepical]

a permit to purchase is for handguns wich came about when the gov't decided to try to outlaw handguns.

[LMITOUT]

It's also required for AR's in MN.

[LMITOUT]

Well the two dealers that i bought from never even asked. Just filled out the regular form. And out the door I was. There must be a loop hole or something that he is getting around it being I'm sure he knows what he is doing otherwise you could be knee deep in [PoorWordUsage] really quick.

I'm thinking he better start asking for the card...

I didn't know the card was required either until a gun dealer I had been talking to said I needed one. It didn't sound right because I always thought it was only needed for handguns (it even says so on the little card) and an AR is a rifle, so I started calling around to a few shops including Cabelas and they all said it's required, per MN state law.

[Huntin&Fishin]

Options for Obtaining a Permit to Purchase/Transfer

Option 1

Fill out a the Minnesota Uniform Firearm Application/Receipt Permit to Purchase/Transfer. Submit the application to your local police chief, or if your municipality does not have a police department, to your county's sheriff. The law enforcement agency will conduct a series of background-related checks to assure you meet eligibility requirements established in state law.

Once those checks are complete, a one-year permit to purchase a handgun in Minnesota will be issued. If you are applying for a permit to transfer the law enforcement agency must notify you of its status within seven days of receipt.

If you are selling a handgun and the buyer has not obtained a permit to purchase, you must notify the local police department or sheriff's office of the potential transaction. Once the law enforcement agency receives the transfer/purchase agreement, the agency has five days to determine the potential buyer's eligibility to possess a handgun.

Option 2

If you want to make a one-time purchase of a handgun from a dealer and you do not have a permit to purchase, you may apply directly at the gun shop where you will purchase the handgun. The gun shop will require you to complete a consent form that allows them to conduct a name and date-of-birth background check to determine your eligibility to purchase a gun. The gun shops are entitled to charge a fee for this service.

This is straight from Bureau of Criminal website, I only see it states "handguns", not long guns which the tatical rifles would fall under. Dont quote me on this but from my understanding it seems only need permit to purchase for handguns

[LMITOUT]

This is straight from Bureau of Criminal website, I only see it states "handguns", not long guns which the tatical rifles would fall under. Dont quote me on this but from my understanding it seems only need permit to purchase for handguns

Nope, need a card for AR's too.

624.7131 TRANSFEREE PERMIT; PENALTY.

Subdivision 1.Information. Any person may apply for a transferee permit by providing the following information in writing to the chief of police of an organized full time police department of the municipality in which the person resides or to the county sheriff if there is no such local chief of police:

(1) the name, residence, telephone number, and driver's license number or nonqualification certificate number, if any, of the proposed transferee;

(2) the sex, date of birth, height, weight, and color of eyes, and distinguishing physical characteristics, if any, of the proposed transferee;

(3) a statement that the proposed transferee authorizes the release to the local police authority of commitment information about the proposed transferee maintained by the commissioner of human services, to the extent that the information relates to the proposed transferee's eligibility to possess a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon under section 624.713, subdivision 1; and

(4) a statement by the proposed transferee that the proposed transferee is not prohibited by section 624.713 from possessing a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon.

[Fishinguy40]

I purchased an AR lower receiver on line in November so that I could build my own. Had to have it shipped to an FFL. When it arrived at the house of the guy that did the transfer I had to fill out some paperwork and then he made a quick phone call to complete the background check. I'm not sure if this paperwork is intended as a permit to purchase or not.

Also, I believe an AR lower receiver can be used to build not just a long gun but a pistol.

[Gordie]

You most likely filled out a 4473 form.

[chad austin]

This about sums it up

[nobody05]

I filled out the same for as I did when I bought my shotgun last year for the AR. I even asked the guy do you need a permit to purshase. Clearly replied with a "nope!"

[LightningBG]

I filled out the same for as I did when I bought my shotgun last year for the AR. I even asked the guy do you need a permit to purshase. Clearly replied with a "nope!"

Simply put: He was wrong when you bought the AR.

It is true, you would fill out the same form for the AR and the shotty, but for the AR, legally you need a permit to purchase, or a permit to carry.

[LightningBG]

Overall, these checks and permitting are going down 2 separate roads.

There is the Feds (ATF) and the state laws.

The feds state you have to fill out 4473 and have it called in for a background check, this includes receivers (lowers for ARs)and frames. This is for any firearm (per the def below) that is sold or transferred through a FFL.

Quote:

18 USC Sec. 921

(3) The term "firearm" means (A) any weapon (including a starter

gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to

expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; ( the frame or

receiver of any such weapon; © any firearm muffler or firearm

silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include

an antique firearm.

The only exception to the 4473, is if your state has taken on the responsibility of Point of Contact, in which case, the states background check satisfies the ATF. MINNESOTA IS NOT ONE OF THESE STATES.

So. In MN, all FFL transactions are supposed to have a 4473 called in, no matter what permits the buyer has.

Now. State.

In MN, they require a permit to purchase or a permit to carry for all handgun transactions, and "military" whateverness. This requirement can also be satisfied by the FFL doing a Report of Transfer (which is what they call in if you wanted to buy one without one of the other permits. BUT, then there is a 5 day wait, unless its waived by the local PD.

Quote:

624.7132 REPORT OF TRANSFER.

Subdivision 1.Required information.

Except as provided in this section and section 624.7131, every person who agrees to transfer a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon shall report the following information in writing to the chief of police of the organized full-time police department of the municipality where the proposed transferee resides or to the appropriate county sheriff if there is no such local chief of police:

(1) the name, residence, telephone number, and driver's license number or nonqualification certificate number, if any, of the proposed transferee;

(2) the sex, date of birth, height, weight, and color of eyes, and distinguishing physical characteristics, if any, of the proposed transferee;

(3) a statement that the proposed transferee authorizes the release to the local police authority of commitment information about the proposed transferee maintained by the commissioner of human services, to the extent that the information relates to the proposed transferee's eligibility to possess a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon under section 624.713, subdivision 1;

(4) a statement by the proposed transferee that the transferee is not prohibited by section 624.713 from possessing a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon; and

(5) the address of the place of business of the transferor.

The report shall be signed and dated by the transferor and the proposed transferee. The report shall be delivered by the transferor to the chief of police or sheriff no later than three days after the date of the agreement to transfer, excluding weekends and legal holidays. The statement under clause (3) must comply with any applicable requirements of Code of Federal Regulations, title 42, sections 2.31 to 2.35, with respect to consent to disclosure of alcohol or drug abuse patient records.

Subd. 2.Investigation.

Upon receipt of a transfer report, the chief of police or sheriff shall check criminal histories, records and warrant information relating to the proposed transferee through the Minnesota Crime Information System, the national criminal record repository, and the National Instant Criminal Background Check System. The chief of police or sheriff shall also make a reasonable effort to check other available state and local record-keeping systems. The chief of police or sheriff shall obtain commitment information from the commissioner of human services as provided in section 245.041.

Subd. 3.Notification.

The chief of police or sheriff shall notify the transferor and proposed transferee in writing as soon as possible if the chief or sheriff determines that the proposed transferee is prohibited by section 624.713 from possessing a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon. The notification to the transferee shall specify the grounds for the disqualification of the proposed transferee and shall set forth in detail the transferee's right of appeal under subdivision 13.

Subd. 4.Delivery.

Except as otherwise provided in subdivision 7 or 8, no person shall deliver a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon to a proposed transferee until five business days after the date the agreement to transfer is delivered to a chief of police or sheriff in accordance with subdivision 1 unless the chief of police or sheriff waives all or a portion of the seven-day waiting period. The chief of police or sheriff may waive all or a portion of the five business day waiting period in writing if the chief of police or sheriff finds that the transferee requires access to a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon because of a threat to the life of the transferee or of any member of the household of the transferee.

No person shall deliver a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon to a proposed transferee after receiving a written notification that the chief of police or sheriff has determined that the proposed transferee is prohibited by section 624.713 from possessing a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon.

If the transferor makes a report of transfer and receives no written notification of disqualification of the proposed transferee within five business days after delivery of the agreement to transfer, the pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon may be delivered to the transferee.

Quote:

Subd. 7.

[Repealed, 1994 c 636 art 3 s 46]

Subd. 8.Report not required.

If the proposed transferee presents a valid transferee permit issued under section 624.7131 or a valid permit to carry issued under section 624.714, the transferor need not file a transfer report.

[nobody05]

sounds like the u.s goverment right there. an entire page that could be said in a couple sentences.

[gopher_nation]

Could a person just drive to SD and buy one without the permit.

[carpshooterdeluxe]

Could a person just drive to SD and buy one without the permit.

Every gun shop I've ever been to in SD has notices posted that for handgun or evil black gun purchases MN residents must have their ptp or ptc.

[md79]

http://www.ruger.com/micros/advocacy/takeAction.html ruger has a letter all you do is enter your info and submit

[lawdog]

http://www.ruger.com/micros/advocacy/takeAction.html ruger has a letter all you do is enter your info and submit

Done

[anyfishwilldo]

[live4chrome]

Hey, looks like even a 10/22 would fall under this ban, as well as my 70 year old m1 this bill se carbines and garand. This bill would ban way more than just black guns. Im off to order an ar ak and m1a platform rifles today

[hockeybc69]

Abot the last thing I am going to do right now is go spend a bunch of money on guns or accessories, in fear one or more of these drafted bills couold pass in some fashion... Then what are you going to do with your brand new purchase that you could be potentially restricted from even using, or worse yet even owning?

Ever since this craze started after Sandy Hook I have been more inclined to not buy anything, rather than go spend a buttload of money on guns.

If nothing passes, then I can hopefully go buy something I want down the road. If something passes, there are going to be a lot of really ticked off people because their 6 month old gun now cant see the light of day.

[Bureaucrat]

The fact that it's become mainstream to even question what our fellow citizens "need" is down right scary and pure communistic rhetoric.

Once we set a precedent that as long as enough of band together and think someone else should be limited in their freedoms, it'll eventually come back to hit you as well.

Maybe the masses will say:

-"You Shouldn't be allowed to have so much money"

-"You shouldn't be allowed to smoke"

-"You shouldn't be allowed to buy a 20 oz pop"

-"You shouldn't be allowed to be fat"

-"You shouldn't be allowed to drive a vehicle that gets less than 35 mpg"

-"You shouldn't be allowed to buy better health care than me"

-"You shouldn't be allowed to own hunting land"

-"We should ban sugar"

-"All people should exercise"

-"We should ban salt"

-"Why does anyone need alcohol"

-"Porn"

-"Meat"

-"Access to food shipped across the globe"

-"Why do people need such big homes"

Let's be careful about claiming dominion over one another. You may regret it when the mob starts claiming dominion over you.

Words I live by: I don't care what you do, just leave me alone.

PS. The AR wasn't even found in the school. He left it in the trunk.

[PopRocks]

I communicated my opposition to further restrictions on our 2nd ammendment rights to Rep Betty McCollum. I recieved a form reply letter in which she called myself, and I imagine alot of you "extremists". Specifically, she stated her vilgilant opposition to the NRA's extremist agenda. I take offense to her assertion that somebody who demands our constitution be honored is extreme. With people like this making our laws, the threat to our rights is undoutedly under duress.