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WATCH OUT!!!


Moose-Hunter

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After talking with the DNR a few days ago, I found out I was not the only one who survived a "near miss". As they put it, "people are not watching out for other boats". And most of these are in BROAD DAY LIGHT!!! They also said it's just a matter of time before something REALLY bad happens.

If you've been to "the pond", more than likely you've been a victim of the high speed fly-by. The too close trollers. Or the guides/launch captains the really do own the lake. (Just as the ones from ****** or *******. And yes, I chose NOT to use their names.)

So if you're out on the lake, day or night, be aware of what or who is around you. At night.... SLOW DOWN!!! And please, if you see someone fishing an area, don't zoom in, high speed, on plane, and proceed to fish within casting distance of the other guy.

To the GUIDE in the huge red Lund... That was directed especially at you!!! Notice how I didn't use your name either?

Be safe. And be courteous.

Public service announcement..... done.

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Personally I would kind of like to see the name of said guide so those that use guides can avoid unethical ones.

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Here we go again. Dangerous inconsiderate boaters. (notice I didnt use the term "fisherman" because true fishermen dont act like that) You guys really need to identify those craft, names, numbers, description and call them in! This (anything goes), cowboy free-for-all c**p really needs to stop before someone gets killed. Sorry for my attitude but I was involved in near miss a couple of years ago that would have certainly resulted in death and now I have zero tolerance for it. I dont mind listening to someone b*tching about it but do something too.

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The 10 o'clock curfew seems to be the worst time of the year on Mille lacs! I'm very surprised many people have not lost there lived with all those boats flying in at the same time. We almost were ran over earlier this year. I was 3 seconds away from diving in the water! I flashed my headlamp repeatedly at this boat and at the last sec he finally saw me. It was a windy, rainy type day so it was not the greatest conditions.

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putting the running lights on at sunset is a big problem also. i was out for a boat ride last evening and saw 4 boats at 9:30pm without their lights on. one of them was in my path of travel and i did spot him until he was about 400 yards away and moved out of his way. when i passed him the bow lights were on, but no stern light and he was trolling away from me so the bow lights were no use to me. a good rule of thumb is when the sun hits the tree line, PUT YOUR RUNNING LIGHTS ON!!!!!!!!

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Right on the money, Tom!!!

If you have running lights... USE THEM!!! If you don't, or aren't running them, you are simply a accident waiting to happen.

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Also, some people dont realize that you should only have your bow light (red/green) on if you are moving. If you are anchored, you should only use the white aft (anchor) light.

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If you are anchored, you should only use the white aft (anchor) light....

both lights on when moving.

I don't think I've ever seen a rule that you can't have the front red/green nav lights on when you're anchored. I know there is a rule that says the only REQUIRED light when anchored is the rear white one...but you can always have extra. The only caveat to having "extra" lights on is that you cannot have any lights that could be mistaken as the red/green nav lights that are NOT the red/green nav lights -- since you don't want to give people the wrong impression as to which direction you are heading.

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I don't think I've ever seen a rule that you can't have the front red/green nav lights on when you're anchored. I know there is a rule that says the only REQUIRED light when anchored is the rear white one...but you can always have extra. The only caveat to having "extra" lights on is that you cannot have any lights that could be mistaken as the red/green nav lights that are NOT the red/green nav lights -- since you don't want to give people the wrong impression as to which direction you are heading.

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I have to say, I've never heard that rule before. In fact, I believe our pontoon only has one button "Nav Lights" that turn the red/green front lights and the back white light on all at once. I don't think think there's an option to operate one or the other.

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A lot of people are not aware of the rules and they really arent enforced much. I was running a cruiser on the river for a few years so I had to bone up on the rules. There they do enforce the rules with some purpose. There is a publication from the DNR for boaters and its all in there. You can get the booklet at the registrar when you get the boat license. Maybe they need to put a little more emphasis on the importance of reading and understanding the rules of the road. Theres another one that gets ignored and that is when two boats are approaching at a right angle, the boat on the right has right of way. I get cut off regularly by ignorance of that rule. The rules are there for a reason...to keep us all alive on the water.

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Sorry, I got off the reply. My old 1987 Blue Fin had a two position switch for the lights and they were labeled "Run" and "Anchor".

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Seems common sense ain't so common anymore. I've been buzzed, had my anchor rope entangled with another boaters anchor rope ( so unbelievable, youd call fiction if I told the story), been rigging while drifting and had another boat pull into my drift and anchor less than 100 feet away,more than once, had my bobber run over, shall I continue....I dont fly the jolly roger from my boat, I'm courteous, have respect for other fisher people, really its not that hard to do, just engage your brain before H.P...... really its easy, be safe, keep your head up and plan a non-dissruptive route, its only seconds out of the way.

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A lot of people are not aware of the rules and they really arent enforced much. ...

Maybe they need to put a little more emphasis on the importance of reading and understanding the rules of the road.

Sorry, Red, but you're wrong. You read the rules but you didn't interpret them correctly.

It absolutely does NOT say that you cannot have the front red/green lights on when you are anchored. It says under section 1 that you MUST have the red/green lights on when you are under way. It also says that you MUST have the all around light on when anchored. Saying that you MUST have XYZ lighting on in a particular situation is not a LIMIT on what lights you CAN display. It is a MINIMUM REQUIREMENT of what lights you MUST display. The all-around light on is a MINIMUM requirement when anchored. Nowhere does it say that you can ONLY have the all-around white light (as you are implying).

For instance, let's say at my house I have a rule that says my kid MUST wear both boots and mittens when it is snowing, and that he MUST wear boots when it is raining. You can't infer from those rules that the use of mittens (which is above and beyond the minimum requirement of rain boots) is illegal during rain. It only states the minimum required equipment for each situation.

Similarly, the rules you alluded to tell the MINIMUM requirement when under way and when anchored. It says that you MUST have a white all around light on your boat when anchored, which makes sense. You don't NEED the navigation lights, because nobody needs to know what direction you're facing, because you're not moving. However, if you turn them on, so that people can tell which direction you are facing, that isn't illegal. It's above and beyond the minimum required "all around" light, that's all.

If the line stating that you MUST have an all-around light on when anchored was truly a LIMITING requirement, it would use the word "only" in the regulation. Furthermore, that would make it illegal to have any other lights in the boat -- for instance, a headlamp, or a flashlight, or a handheld spotlight to aid in casting, or some red/green side marker lights, or some lights that illuminate your floor when you're taking the hooks out of a fish.

The truth is, you can have any other lights except those that could be mistaken to be red/green navigation lights. The reason for this is obvious -- if you had red/green navigation lights in the proper configuration, and you also had an additional red flashlight, and it was shining out the side of the boat where the green light is shining, it creates an ambiguous (and potentially dangerous) situation because you have red/green/red lights -- and another boat cannot tell which direction you are facing (or moving). Other than lights that can be mistaken for navigation lights, you are good to go.

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Sorry aanderud, but you are incorrect. After taking boaters safety courses, and my father having taken all Coast Gaurd courses available I know specifically that you CANNOT display red/green lights while anchored. They are meant to indicate a vessel that is underway and show the direction of said vessel. If you are anchored you MUST shut off the red/green lights and only display the white anchor light. If you feel you need more light to be more visible in bad conditions then you are allowed to turn on a brighter white light such as a spotlight. If you are not anchored, but not under power and drifting you still must display the red/green light.

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Sorry aanderud, but you are incorrect. After taking boaters safety courses, and my father having taken all Coast Gaurd courses available I know specifically that you CANNOT display red/green lights while anchored.
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BUT it does not say the white light is the MINIMUM requirement which you are stating. It clearly states "Motorboats of any length MUST display the following.... an all-round light when anchored." It does not say "an anchor light and any other light you wish".

It isn't just a state law, it is pretty much worldwide boating/shipping rules. Do a search on the internet sometime, there have been numerous discussions pertaining to this exact issue. And every one of them states exactly what I said.

I'm done debating this, feel free to do as you wish, but I suggest everyone else following this thread do as I have stated.

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OK. Let's use your faulty logic on every rule then, not just the required lighting rules.

For instance, where they state the visibility rules:

Quote:
Visibility Rules. White lights must be visible for two miles on a dark, clear night (with one exception under the International Rules). Combination or side lights must be visible for one mile

Using your faulty logic, if you are displaying a light that can be seen at 3 miles, you're violating the rule because it clearly states that you it MUST be 2 miles. Of course 2 miles is the MINIMUM.

You won't see your flawed logic, but that is no matter to me. I couldn't care less whether you are displaying only the minimum required lights or if you have additional lights on your boat.

The FACT is that until they add the word "ONLY" to the all-around light in the subsection detailing anchored lighting restrictions, they are NOT precluding additional lights. As for an 'internet search', I'm not going to just research random posts on the web -- if I did I'd run into a bunch of guys like you who add rules where there are none. Instead, I'll stick to the MN statutes (unless I end up on federally controlled waterways, in which case I'll have to brush up on those rules).

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I have to agree with aanderud on this because I have had the CO's them selves tell me that when I was anchored that I had to have my light on both front and rear light. I even asked being that I was pulled up on shore on the river if I even need them on at all and his response was if you in the boat you must have both front and rear lights on. didnt matter that we were beached or not.

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After taking the navigation courses as well, I agree that the anchor only light is suppose to be on when not in motion. Having the front red and green light on gives a false impression to approaching boats.

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Sorry Gordie, but the CO was wrong in this case. Thats all I can say about that. That may be part of the reason the Coast Guard is cracking down on commercial boat captains and making them take the courses and take the test. Sounds like the DNR better have some training programs for the the field people as well. I have a private pilots license and the rules are universal. The red/green light is called a "NAV' light.(as in navigating) Red left, green right. Indicates direction of "TRAVEL" and that you are moving. The white (all-around) light marks the aft in relation to the NAV light.

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What if we are anchored watching rod tips and I have a red headlight and my buddy has a green headlight

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The way i read it, you can have any frigg'n light on you want when anchored, but you NEED the rear white 360 light...Since its my safety that i'm concerned about, i'll darn well keep both light on and have a spot light ready as well, at least when on the croix anyway. Have even considered buying a yellow flashing light to grab boaters attention.

As far as having two red/green lights while your moving..That could cause confusion, but as a boater, it's better to be cautious and yield to any boat at night than to ASSUME that they are heading in a certain direction because you see a red/green light.

Do you assume everyone with their blinker on is planning on turning at the next available opportunity too laugh

Never trust a blinker, never trust a red/green light means their not anchored or heading in that direction.

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The coast guard would probably rather than everyone leave their red and green lights off while anchored. That wasn't the point I was arguing. I was arguing that on inland waters, under minnesota regulations (specifically those that Red sited above and I copied), you are not prohibited from having them on. There's nothing in the rule that says you can't have extra lights in addition to the full 360 degree light when you're anchored -- the rule is simply that you must have at least the all-around light turned on.

As for the green/red, I prefer to keep them on -- I don't want to make myself less visible.

As for confusing other boaters by having them on -- Red, in this case you cannot infer my direction of travel based on my lights. The observer needs to figure out if I'm ACTUALLY MOVING. What if I was back-trolling?

This isn't coast-guard regulation I'm trying to interpret here, so I don't know why you keep mentioning the coast guard or your private pilot license or whatnot. I'm only reading and interpreting the laws written and enforced in minnesota waters by our DNR (the ones YOU linked to).

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I have had the CO's them selves tell me that when I was anchored that I had to have my light on both front and rear light.

...

his response was if you in the boat you must have both front and rear lights on. didnt matter that we were beached or not.

This CO was wrong in this case. You don't need the front lights when you're anchored. The regulation in statute and the easily-readable interpretation in the guide book both say that the white all-around light is all that is necessary when you are anchored.

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What if I'm back-trolling after dark? Should I leave my red and green lights off since they are not indicating my direction of travel or is backtrolling banned after dark? grin

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This CO was wrong in this case. You don't need the front lights when you're anchored. The regulation in statute and the easily-readable interpretation in the guide book both say that the white all-around light is all that is necessary when you are anchored.

Yes the CO was wrong and that point was made to them but they insisted on both lights had to be on so I did what they said as not to provoke anything. Sometimes you do what you have to to stay out of trouble.

My other point to him was that even that my boat is pulled up on shore we shouldn't have to have our lights on and he said as long as your in the boat they need to be on. so with that said how many boats to you see tied up to a dock or on shore that have people in them with no lights? happens alot on the Mississippi.

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But what if Red Green isn't in your boat? Would you still need to carry duct tape when you are underway?

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Instead, I'll stick to the MN statutes (unless I end up on federally controlled waterways, in which case I'll have to brush up on those rules).
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