How long before Gardy is gone?

[BartmanMN]

Good point Nofish. That is probably what they would do.

[CodyDawg]

sorry to change the subject a little, but I got to thinking about Gardy and the team. First, you have to ask yourself, is Gardy a bona fide MLB manager? Does he belong managing a major league team. I think the answer to this is yes.

Next I thought about the group of Twins players this year (and the last few years would be similar). I attempted to name the bona fide major league players. For a team with any legitimate world series hopes, you better have 10 or 11 position players and 4 starters plus 4 relievers. At least something like that...around 18-20 bona fide for-sure-belong-in-the-majors players. So, this year we have:

For sure MLB players (3):

Mauer

Perkins

Willingham

Probable MLB players (4):

Dozier

Burton?

Thielbar?

Doumit

So maybe we have 6? 7? Not even close to the 18-20 we need to compete. I just dont think you can fire Gardy for on field performance of this team. You can fire him for other reasons (player development, not relating to young players, game time management decisions, a manager you really want (Molitor?) in the wings, etc), but you dont fire him for winning 70 games with this bunch.

[nofishfisherman]

I agree. Losing 90+ games with this team shouldn't be the reason to fire Gardy. Losing 90 games was almost a certainty way back in spring training. There are so few major league caliber players on this team that any time they win a game its a minor miracle.

So far we've talked about whether Gardy should be fired (or not resigned since I think his contract is up) but I think the question should be does Gardy even want to come back? He's been given garbage to work with for so long that I've got to think his frustration level is sky high. Why would he want to come back and work for an organization that doesn't appear serious about contending any time soon?

[rundrave]

Because he's making 23 million dollars per year and he's one of the main reasons why the team is full of other guys who stink.

The Pohlads have money, lots of it! It wouldn't hurt them or the team at all to spend Steinbrenner money. They can afford it, but simply choose not to.

My point here is yes Mauer makes a lot of money, but if you think its costing the Pohlads or the team to much and it prevents them for signing anyone else your wrong.

[B. Amish]

you can't spend money if free agents don't want to come here.

[greebs]

...or maybe you keep 2-3 of the 7 former Twins that were all-stars last year.

Twins roster didnt need to look like it does right now. Some of these all stars did not become ex twins because of their salaries. They were traded or let go because they underperformed and the team felt they weren't needed here anymore. There seems to be many players who have left the twins only to do much better under different leadership. Hmmm wonder why they didn't do so well as a twin? Gardy and his buddies coaching needs to be held accountable for that.

[Cicada]

"Some of these all stars did not become ex twins because of their salaries. They were traded or let go because they underperformed and the team felt they weren't needed here anymore."

I'd like to add that their value was in that they could be traded for players that would fit the puzzle in the future.

[Musky Buck]

traded or let go because they underperformed, who are we talking about Cuddyer Nathan Revere Kubel Thome Hardy ? Who was underperforming ? I think Liriano sand bagged it, Span Torii Hunter who were the underperformers ? If that's the case then Mauer maybe should be cut. Danny Valencia has more walk off hits than Joe, at crunch crunch time Joe fails with high frequency like his .286 career playoff average with 1 rbi. Like early in the year when we had a pulse 2 nights in a row facing a righty striking out looking vs KC with bases juiced. It's really not worth our effort to even talk twins baseball, it's a disaster. We can't strike anybody out, we need 3 hits to score a run, the other team always has the best hitter of that nights game. I agree if I'm Gardy, I'm letting it go at this point. Time for new blood, Gardy would be just fine with good talent, whichever way he spins things it goes from ugly to uglyier to wow are we overmatched. He does the best he can with the guys we have, Vance Worley had the opening day ball, with 161 games to go after that. To me it's just sad we're toast by the all-star break now, trying to speculate when we'll see playoff ball again, idk

[blue_healer_guy]

good post musky, imo, the philosophy of this club has to change. In this day of mlb, small ball, bunting guys over, hitting every cutoff, hustling every routine gb out, moving runners over, good clubhouse guys, pitching to contact, etc is changing. They are all important parts, dont get me wrong. But you cant have complete roster of these players. You need boppers, jerks, athletes, strikeout pitchers,guys that throw gatoraid jugs, guys that bean hitters, etc. Im so sick of the twins way, its over, you blew your chance in the early 2000's.

The only way this philosophy changes, exit Gardy, Pohlad, Anderson.

[thatoneguy]

you do know that San Fran won the Series without any big HR hitter and really only one power pitcher?

[blue_healer_guy]

how they doing this yr?

[Rippinlip]

For a team with any legitimate world series hopes, you better have 10 or 11 position players and 4 starters plus 4 relievers. At least something like that...around 18-20 bona fide for-sure-belong-in-the-majors players.

Might be a good thought, but once the playoffs start, lets see how those teams stack up with your theory.

Bet it closer to 3 really good starting pithchers, 1 good to great closer and 4-5 studs in your line-up.

[greebs]

traded or let go because they underperformed, who are we talking about Cuddyer Nathan Revere Kubel Thome Hardy ? Who was underperforming ?

Everyone complains about starting pitching. I think that wouldn't be nearly the problem it is if our starters included lohse, garza, liriano, and dickey. Gardy didn't like the first two and the other two underperformed and were more or less thrown away.

Then add in Gonzales which alleviates our cf problem, and hardy who is much better ss than current one and now we've got a couple more good bats in lineup. And while we are at it, it's been said gardy is who pushed hard for the Ramos for Capps trade.

Instead of battling their tails off this team could be battling for playoff spots the past few years and might have even won a playoff game or series during Grady's tenure if he wasn't so stubborn when it comes to players who have a bit of swagger. These vanilla type players on the roster are very much reflective of their mgr. this team needs a few tougher type players with a little attitude but those types of players have traditionally been the ones in Grady's doghouse all the time.

[thatoneguy]

great post, greebs - couldn't agree more. The Ramos for Capps trade was a complete cluster$#%@.

[harvey lee]

The Twin's or Jim P will not make much for changes until they see a drop in attendence. The Twins are making good money and to the Pohland's, thats what it is all about.

if the newness of the new ballpark ever wears off, then you may see a drop in attendence and then maybe, they will go out and try to really improve thier team.

No need to do a thing now as people continue to go to the games and the profits are there.

Just look what they have dropped in payroll in the last years and the park is still getting good attendence. Heck, take out Mauer's pay and the total payroll for players is not much at all.

Gardy has to love being a coach in baseball or he would have left some time ago with the players he is given. How can one expect any coach to win with a lineup like they put on the field.

The last 3 years, the Twins are about as bad as it gets yet they still bring in the crowds.

We are years from a contending team.

[mainbutter]

We've already seen a drop in attendance every year since day 1 of the new stadium, 2013 has been the lowest attendance year for it, 1/4 less than the first year.

[eyebenband]

I'm guessing they will bring Gardy back for

next year and if the team doesn't show one

heck of a lot of improvement in April, he will be

gone around May 5th or sooner.

[B. Amish]

gardy is sitting on 998 wins as a manager. can they take 2 of the final 3 to get him to 1,000?

[JBMasterAngler]

NOPE! Not with the Indians still fighting to keep their playoff spot!

[RumRiverRat]

The Twins won the division three times in five years with Mauer in the middle of the lineup didn't they? If he didn’t get all the credit then, why does he get all the blame now? Why should we hold the one good player on a bad team responsible for the losing seasons? Why doesn’t anybody complain about the rest of the guys who stink as much as you complain about Mauer?

Catcher is the most physically demanding position in the sport.But your right he should try to play through a concussion for a last-place team.

23 million bleeping dollars should motivate him to play.

Mauer is a lazy, injury prone, self absorbed prima dona.

[Cicada]

With all the whining about the players that have left the Twins and then became All-Stars, how's this for a prediction: The Twins lose the last two remaining games, Gardenhire leaves the Twins, is hired by the Texas Rangers and becomes Manager of the Year and ends up in the World Series.

[eyebenband]

With all the whining about the players that have left the Twins and then became All-Stars, how's this for a prediction: The Twins lose the last two remaining games, Gardenhire leaves the Twins, is hired by the Texas Rangers and becomes Manager of the Year and ends up in the World Series.

And he takes Mauer with him for 2 pitchers that end up

with Tommy John and Mauer ends up hitting .400.

And we will have a thread, how long before we can get Gardy back.

[greebs]

With all the whining about the players that have left the Twins and then became All-Stars, how's this for a prediction: The Twins lose the last two remaining games, Gardenhire leaves the Twins, is hired by the Texas Rangers and becomes Manager of the Year and ends up in the World Series.

This would prove a few things.

1. Unlike the twins, the rangers believe in accountability. Just contending for the playoffs isn't good enough and then not doing as well as capable once there doesn't cut it.

2. Gardy can be a decent manager on a team with veterans and good talent. We've had three years of seeing him not know what to do with a young team and the team not improving at all but as has happened many times with other mgrs/coaches, a change of scenery can be good for everyone.

3. That manager of the year award is kind of a joke. How many votes is Ron going to get this year? Either that or else he really hasn't done a good job managing this season.

Btw I still think Ron will be managing this team next year and beyond if he wants to and I think twins are the only team that would retain mgr following these last three seasons.

[toughguy]

Strib is reporting a 2 year extension for Gardy.

[toughguy]

La Velle is also reporting the entire coaching staff will be back. I'm OK with Gardy staying but the coaches should go.

[B. Amish]

i honestly thought he'd be gone.

[harvey lee]

Before I let gardy go, I would look at a new pitching and hitting coach. We have lost many players who did not do well in a Twins uniform yet they have done pretty good or at least alot better in another uniform. Something wrong with that picture.

With the line up the Twins put on the field this season, no coach could have turned these players into a contender.

[harvey lee]

We've already seen a drop in attendance every year since day 1 of the new stadium, 2013 has been the lowest attendance year for it, 1/4 less than the first year.

Yes, thier attendance has dropped a bit but until it drops to the point that the Twins are not making money, nothing will change.

Still making money and dropping salary so they are happy, profits are what the owners for the Twins look at now.

[greebs]

Before I let gardy go, I would look at a new pitching and hitting coach. We have lost many players who did not do well in a Twins uniform yet they have done pretty good or at least alot better in another uniform. Something wrong with that picture.

With the line up the Twins put on the field this season, no coach could have turned these players into a contender.

[/quote

you realize that gardy could have had anderson fired many times over but those two are buddies and gardy would defend him to all extents dont you?

[rundrave]

La Velle is also reporting the entire coaching staff will be back. I'm OK with Gardy staying but the coaches should go.

This is all a huge embarrassment, what this proves is there is no accountability at all in this organization. Not only are the Twins going to tell us fans they will tolerate mediocrity, they are now going reward it too.

This last 3 year stretch has been a disaster, much worse than the mid to late 90's stretch. I really want to start seeing some changes.