Saints paid players to hurt foes

[Scott M]

Peter King wants to give the Lombardi trophy to the Vikings,

*********************************

What could have been if Saints got called for Favre hit

by Peter King, SI.com

When Vikings coach Brad Childress returned to Minneapolis after the NFC Championship loss two-plus years ago, he got a tape together of eight hits on quarterback Brett Favre that were not flagged for penalties in the game. He was, I am told, very upset about what he saw as the excessive brutality in the game that left Favre bruised and hobbled afterward, and he wanted the league to look into the hits.

It's not uncommon for a coach, especially a losing one, to send several plays for the league to review after a game. Eight is a lot. And the league, led by then-vice president of officiating Mike Pereira, did look into them. Pereira found only one of the hits to be a play that, in his opinion, should have been flagged: the high-low hit by Saints linemen Bobby McCray and Remi Ayodele late in the third quarter on a play Favre rushed, threw an interception and was hit after he released the ball.

That play, clearly, should have been flagged by referee Pete Morelli. The league admitted it a couple days later, and ended up fining McCray $20,000 for that play and another earlier in the game when he drove himself into Favre after a handoff. (A handoff, mind you; not a pass. How often have you seen unnecessary roughness called on a defensive player for hitting the quarterback after a handoff? I can't recall ever seeing that, aside from this play.)

Interesting what might have happened had Morelli thrown the flag.

The game was tied at 21 when Favre threw the interception, then got chopped down. The resulting personal foul against McCray would have given the Vikings a first down at the New Orleans 24 with 1:59 left in the third quarter. Let's say Favre, who was helped off the field with his ankle injury after the play, missed the rest of that series and Tarvaris Jackson, the backup, entered the game. Let's assume, for a moment, that the drive stalled and the Vikings had fourth down from the Saints 20-yard line. That would have set up a weather-less 37-yard field-goal try by Ryan Longwell (28 of 30 in field goals that season). Would it have made a difference in the outcome of the game, which was 28-28 after four quarters? The game of course was won by the Saints, 31-28, in overtime.

Hard to imagine Favre, regardless how he felt, not playing in the Super Bowl two weeks later. I bet he would have, come hell or high water. But he wasn't sure about that when we spoke Friday. "I wonder if I would have been able to play in the Super Bowl,'' said Favre. "I'm just telling I could not walk on Tuesday. That was a bad one.''

Just another part of this story that makes you sit back and wonder a lot of things about that day in January 2010.

***

One more point about this story, on a personal note: Former Saints linebacker Scott Fujita is ensnared in it. I reported in my SI magazine story this week that Fujita is one of three defensive leaders who pledged between $2,000 and $10,000 that season toward the bounty pool. Fujita told me he has given money to players over his career for performance-related things like interceptions, forced fumbles and special-teams tackles inside the 20, but he said he never has pledged a dime to any cause that promoted injuring an opponent. There are still so many parts of this story that remain cloudy, and you can judge Fujita and his claims for yourself.

But I have gotten to know Fujita well over the past couple of years for his work as a member of the NFLPA board of directors and as one of the driving forces behind former Saint Steve Gleason's foundation and Gleason's struggle with ALS. With the NFLPA, I found him driven like very few on the board to work to improve player safety and to lessen non-game contact work that players must endure. His work was legitimate and dedicated.

He has done even more for Gleason, particularly on Gleason's trip to the Super Bowl with two fellow ALS patients. Fujita, now a Cleveland Brown, got a friend of Colt McCoy's to fly the Gleason group to Indianapolis for the game by private plane. He arranged for the tickets. He arranged for the hotel rooms, which was quite difficult. He asked for no credit and in fact eschewed credit when any came his way. All he wanted to do was something for his friend to make sure the roadblocks and detours that would normally make such a trip difficult for a man with Gleason's physical struggles would disappear. And they did.

Fujita didn't seek headlines for his NFLPA work, nor for the stuff he has done for Gleason. This is a very good human being who -- and I am not sure of this -- may regret today getting caught up in something sordid, but something so accepted in the private NFL world of bounties for making plays. I'm not talking about bounties for knocking foes out of games. I'm talking about payments for performance. Every player on that defense will face potential discipline for this issue, Fujita included. I just wanted to tell you what I think of the man."

[Rick]

It wouldn't matter if EVERY TEAM did what New Orleans did.

IT WOULD BE JUST AS WRONG.

Those who minimize what the Saints did are really out there in fantasy land.

Let's state it exactly like it is:

1. They had a bounty to knock out other players or injure them badly enough to be carted off.

2. They were told by the league to stop it and they did not.

3. They were investigated for it and lied about it.

It was wrong and unconscionable to do anyone of the three above.

Care to minimize that anyone?

Now there's a winner!

At least three of those in the Saints organization "have the decency and hopefully remorse to acknowledge their role was wrong and apologized".

Which is more than we can say for the minimizers.

[corncob]

Who cares, really?.....You think all NFL teams arent telling their players to smash the Quarterback.

[YiGGiN4SLoBS]

Who cares, really?.....You think all NFL teams arent telling their players to smash the Quarterback.

That aint the point! OF course all NFL teams are telling their players to smash the quarterback! But I garuntee they dont all have frickin bounty pools to injure people! its about the integrity of the league! You think that guy from the saints would have smashed Favre in the chin after a HANDOFF if their wasnt a bounty pool???? Not much... Nobody hits QB's after handoffs, especially with the rules now days!

Thats like pete rose saying, "yeah i gambled, but it was always for us to win! who cares?"

What dont people get about that?

Stick it to Whodat Nation for this Non Sense!

[hawgchaser]

Quote:

Peter King wants to give the Lombardi trophy to the Vikings

Said trophy to be delivered by the first available UFO!

[flipper]

This will just be another thing for the Queens fans can put on their list of excuses for their team not going anywhere.

[Scott K]

Not an excuse, we came up short for lots of reasons. That doesnt make head hunting OK!

[nofishfisherman]

There were too many reasons we lost that game, we can't pin the loss just on this. I doubt the head hunting accounted for the 12 men of the field penalty.

[ozzie]

we wouldn't have had to have 12 men on the field as we would have already won the game....I could care less what happened to the Vikes (shouldn't have won with 6 turnovers) but they should put the smack down on Saints for there actions.

[Nick Kuhn]

This will just be another thing for the Queens fans can put on their list of excuses for their team not going anywhere.

I'm guessing you are a Packers fan. Just speculating here, but what happens if instead of a pick 6 Rodgers throws an 80 yard TD in overtime? Now instead of Kurt Warner receiving the concussion against the Saints, it's Aaron Rodgers that takes it and he became a Justin Morneau or Sidney Crosby? Packers fans would be screaming just as loud if not louder at this. Clearly the hit on Warner was intent to injure. It's one thing to hit a QB hard to disrupt pocket presence; it's completely different to hit a QB who's out of the play after a pick.

[nofishfisherman]

I'm guessing you are a Packers fan. Just speculating here, but what happens if instead of a pick 6 Rodgers throws an 80 yard TD in overtime? Now instead of Kurt Warner receiving the concussion against the Saints, it's Aaron Rodgers that takes it and he became a Justin Morneau or Sidney Crosby? Packers fans would be screaming just as loud if not louder at this. Clearly the hit on Warner was intent to injure. It's one thing to hit a QB hard to disrupt pocket presence; it's completely different to hit a QB who's out of the play after a pick.

I think most defensive players are told to hit the QB if the interception is being returned. At that point the QB is fair game.

The difference is in the intent of the hit. Hitting a guy to rattle his cage a little and disrupt his confidence is one thing. The saints bounties were directly tied to a player either being hurt bad enough to leave the game or to be carted off the field. Thats the big difference here. There was an intent to injure.

[flipper]

Nope, Not a Packers fan. Look what the Packers did to McMahon to put him out of commission. This is not something new.

[YiGGiN4SLoBS]

Nope, Not a Packers fan. Look what the Packers did to McMahon to put him out of commission. This is not something new.

Yup, your right... coaches pay players to hurt people ALL the time! Just as sure as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west...

Name one other instance where there is proof of NFL coaches paying players for injuring people.

[PierBridge]

Not much we can do for guys on this one with your heads buried in the sand. It's football you try to knock the other players out of the game period end of discussion. The bounty means nothing and please show us one incident where the Saints bounty actually knocked somebody out of the game with a cheap-shot? Sorry it's just not there.

Our only beef we have as vikings fans is with the officials who should have flagged them a few more times but you can hardly blame the Saints for taking what the Refs gave them.

The Saints problem's or arrogance as it turns out to be are they were warned by the NFL on more than one occasion about there bounty program and they decided to keep doing it until the NFL had no choice.

I look for a $500,000 fine and the loss of 2 or 3 1st round picks plus suspensions.

Sound about right?

[YiGGiN4SLoBS]

So basically the NFL is like the mafia? All teams/ coaches pay players to hurt people on top of their salaries? Happens all the time i guess! Saints shouldnt be punished at all!

NFL is nothing but a bunch of guys running around trying to injure eachother!! Makes sense to me...

Sure injuries happen in a rough game like football and yes players have tried to hurt eachother before.... But if you honestly cant see what is wrong with coaches paying players to hurt people then you need to buy a clue. How do you know someone wasnt injured and players were paid for it by the saints? U checked all the game tape from the alleged bounty pool games? They blew favres ankle up pretty good in that game with a high low hit. NFL even admitted that one should have been a penalty. Id be willing to bet someone got paid for that one.

Seriously, some of you guys make the NFL sound like a prison riot. Guys are runnin around with shanks stuck in their belt lines tryin to mame somebody every game! Dont really know how u come up with some of this jibberish.

Dont give me the "just vikings fans whining" talk, Id be willing to bet vikings fans arent the only ones that have a problem with mafioso bounty pools

[hawgchaser]

ESPN reports Goodell is meeting with Payton & Benson today. Adam Schefter reports that his sense is the main punishments to individuals will be to the clubhouse management - Loomis, Payton, Benson and the defensive captains. The hammer (according to Schefter) will not fall hard on the other 27 players implicated.

No one seems to have a sense of specific Team punishments as yet.

[YiGGiN4SLoBS]

Word out that Payton has been suspended for a year! The Gm half the year and both fined 500,000. The saints also lose their next 2 second rd picks... Ha ha Whodat. Hope those bounties were worth it!

Looks like the NFL thought it was pretty serious....

[klecker]

Goodell lowered the boom.

[TR21HP]

Plus, Williams is out of a job indefinitely. Good for Goddell, no place in football for this garbage.

[PierBridge]

If thats true it's fantastic news!

2nd rounders though? didn't the Pats lose a 1st rd pick or two?

[LABS4ME]

Bye Bye Shauney! Couldn't happen to a better guy!

The 49ers were nuts to sign Smith... shoulda been on the horn to Brees... he'd jump ship! That team is destined to swirl into the sewer now!

Good Luck!

Ken

[YiGGiN4SLoBS]

If thats true it's fantastic news!

2nd rounders though? didn't the Pats lose a 1st rd pick or two?

I dont think the saints even have a 1st rd pick this year, they traded it away... they wont have a pick until the 3rd rd of this years draft! The NFL must have thought that was severe enough. They didnt want to screw the franchise like David Stern did to the T wolves for Joe Smith, which was ALOT less of a crime then this. Stern is a joker though....

Plus the pats never had any suspensions for spy gate and the fines were half as much. This punishment is a heck of a lot more severe

[Matt S.]

Wouldn't it be ironic if the Vikings signed Brees?

[LABS4ME]

I think Ricky would say "we don't need a ProBowl caliber QB to compete in the league"...

Besides Brees isn't coming off a season ending injury and he's not washed up, so I doubt they'd have any interest.

Good Luck!

Ken

[mnviking28]

+1 Ken...well put!

[SkunkedAgain]

Goodell gets mucho credit for not tolerating this type of behavior. I suspect that the Saints organization didn't get more of a fine ($500,000) or lose higher picks because you also have to factor in that their head coach is suspended for the year, their GM for 8 games, and their top assistance coach for 6 games. Plus, you never know how much the NFL believes that ownership actually knew. Maybe they should have and they are being punished, but not as bad as could be.

However, I don't think that the team should be allowed to keep the Lombardi trophy. There should be an asterisk in the record book and they should strip the team of any titles like the NCAA would do to a team found cheating in order to win.

[nofishfisherman]

So now who coaches the Saints for this next year? Are they allowed to just fire Payton and bring in a new head coach? Or do they really go the season with fewer coaches on staff? Could they just hire someone like Bill Cowher (just as an example) and give him a title like Asst. Head coach and let him basically act as a head coach for the year. Wouldn't serve as much of a punishment to the team if that is the case, just a stiff penalty to a few individuals.

I'm not saying Cowher or another top tier coach would actually take a job like that but I wonder if there is anything preventing the Saints from replacing Payton in some capacity or another.

[SkunkedAgain]

Nope, they can hire someone new, promote their lame-duck OC or even Spagnuolo who just came on board as the DC. I'm sure that whatever contract Sean Peyton has with the team still stands but they could opt to buy him out at the end of the 1 year suspension.

[klecker]

They can fire him for cause. He broke his contract. They would not even be on the hook to pay him.

It’s not over yet. Some players will be punished as well. That will take longer as the players union will be involved on that.

[Getanet]

If they fire Payton could we hire him for the 2013 season? If that was the case this free agency period would sure look a lot better!