Saints paid players to hurt foes

[flipper]

I would bet a dollar to a donut that nearly every team does it, they are just trying to make an example out of the Saints because they have ample proof. This outrage on this forum is ridiculous, this has been going on for years.

[nofishfisherman]

I guess I should ask again, what does it matter how common it is? Maybe the fact that its that common should actually raise more concern rather than apathy.

If it has been going on for years across the entire NFL then the Saints must be the dumbest organization in all of sports. To be the only team to ever be caught and to make it so obvious and then to not have stopped after the league gave them a warning, what kind of excuse is there for that?

[Scott K]

Flipper, I am not sure what you do for a living, but if one of your fellow employees put a bounty out for $50k to put you in the hospital, would that be ok to you? How about if it was put out for kids walking to school?

[B. Amish]

the nfl should drop the hammer on this. this kind of publicity will ruin the nfl. moms won't let their kids play football after reading more headlines like this. you take a combo platter of bounties and the average life expectancy of former nfl players and it will eventually lead to soccer becoming more popular.

[hawgchaser]

Quote:

I would bet a dollar to a donut that nearly every team does it, they are just trying to make an example out of the Saints because they have ample proof

That's what I was alluding to earlier. I think the investigation was conducted with sure knowledge of what the findings would be. If you're going to draw your line in the sand, why wouldn't you choose the most flagrant violators.

Quote:

This outrage on this forum is ridiculous, this has been going on for years.

It's not just this forum, and the outrage seems to be over 90% against the bounty system. Contrary to some opinions, football is not the possession of the players. It will rise or fall according to the wishes of the fans and most of them seem to share the outrage. We've even got considerable agreement between Packers & Vikings fans...who'da thunkit??

[soldoncass]

Why did the Aints NOT bring back Williams????? Are they trying to separate the team from the mess? I think they are 3 years too late.....

[LMITOUT]

Flipper, I am not sure what you do for a living, but if one of your fellow employees put a bounty out for $50k to put you in the hospital, would that be ok to you? How about if it was put out for kids walking to school?

That may be the worst comparison I have ever heard.

[LMITOUT]

YOU ARE saying that it's OKAY to promote injuring and maiming other players and putting a bounty out to do that LMIT!

[PierBridge]

Jail time and lawsuits?

Oh my goodness folks...

[flipper]

Flipper, I am not sure what you do for a living, but if one of your fellow employees put a bounty out for $50k to put you in the hospital, would that be ok to you? How about if it was put out for kids walking to school?

Never said it was ok, It isn't. I am just saying it is more the norm than the exception in professional football. If you don't know that then WAKE UP! If you think the Vikings are an exception you are wrong.

[PierBridge]

Favres responce.

"I'm not [PoorWordUsage],'' he said. "It's football. I don't think anything less of those guys. I would have loved to play with Vilma. Hell of a player. I've got a lot of respect for Gregg Williams. He's a great coach. I'm not going to make a big deal about it.

“Now the truth comes out. That’s good. But that’s football. The only thing that really [PoorWordUsage] me off about the whole thing is we lost the game. That’s the thing about that day that still bothers me. And that’s the way it goes. If they wanted me to testify in court about this, they’d be calling the wrong guy.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...oming-to-light/

[thatoneguy]

Of course Favre's going to say that, he doesn't want to sounds like a wuss. Regardless of who does/doesn't testify, the Saints are going to forfeit draft picks and Williams will be looking at a hefty fine and suspension - which is as it should be.

[PierBridge]

And just so are were clear here a bounty does not mean you have to cheap-shot somebody.

A good clean border line hit will knock a player out of the game as well.

Also I sense some flip-flopping here by some of the more prolific posters. They seem to want there cake and it too.

So It's OK to fly through the air with a Helmet to Helmet hit on a receiver or hit a QB in the head or legs because thats just football and the NFL "NO FUN LEAGUE" is turning it into flag football.

But now you are outraged.... HMMMMMMM!

[hawgchaser]

Quote:

Jail time and lawsuits?

I don't see jail time but do think lawsuits are inevitable...not from current but from past players. Pro sports players are notorious for squandering their money, and this will be an attractive cash cow to some. NFL management is trying to limit its culpability by inferring tort liability on the coaches and players. Deepest pockets will be protected as much as is possible.

[PierBridge]

Quote:

Regardless of who does/doesn't testify, the Saints are going to forfeit draft picks and Williams will be looking at a hefty fine and suspension

And I think that's reasonable.

And no Favre doesn't think that for your provided reason.

[PierBridge]

Quote:

I don't see jail time but do think lawsuits are inevitable...not from current but from past players.

Could there be some frivolous lawsuits? Yeah it is America and if some Jock that blew all his moneys want to take a stab go for it but it's big Loser!

[nofishfisherman]

I wouldn't count out a lawsuit being brought by someone but I can't imagine them being able to win. They'd need to prove they sustained damages from a specific play and then prove that the specific play was a direct result of the bounty system. I just don't see how anyone could prove it.

[hawgchaser]

nofish,

Dangerous for me to speak as a non-attorney but I believe the two requirement to collect damages from "management" would be to prove negligence (given their knowledge that the bounty system was in place) and damages to the player. I think a good lawyer could spin that to a jury pretty well for a player injured in any game against the Saints during the bounty period.

[flipper]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/New-O...ypocrisy-030512

[ozzie]

Where do you guys get your reasoning and thinking that this is the norm for the league and has been for years? Yes there were guys that made "hit lists" and such back in the days but to say they were getting paid extra to take someone out and by coaches to top it off...where's the proof? The extent of the Saints haveing a pool in the amount of $50,000 or possibly more is just crazy....remember those guys on the other team were out there for the same reasons as the Saints...Trying to make a living for their families and win a game. To want to hit someone hard is one thing but having a dollar amount dangling in front of you if you injure another player is toatlly wrong. If you can't see the difference I sure hope you aren't out there trying to coach our kids on how to play fair!!!!

[flipper]

Ozzie, Which part of "Never said it was ok. It isn't" did you have such a difficult time grasping? Being aware of what goes on and condoning it are two different things. Living in a fantasy world is another.

[toughguy]

It's my understanding there are 3 issues here

1) the bounty program was in place not just to perform (tackles, interceptions, fumbles) but to injure. The performance bounties might (no proof) be in place on other teams but they are still against rules. I find it hard to believe that injury bounties are common. Paying to "cart off" of injure other players takes this to a whole new level.

2) The NFL heard about the program and told team officials to stop - they didn't stop

3) The team and team officials instructed players to lie to the NFL in an attempt to cover it up after the league began to investigate it the second time. Now you have guys like Sharper saying they know who the snitch is and that they will pay for their snitching. I don't think the NFL will act to kindly towards that either.

Each offence is bad enough on it's own in the NFL's eyes to punish severely.

[Scott K]

I wouldnt be opposed to eliminating the Saints. I think it is justifiable punishment.

[LMITOUT]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/New-O...ypocrisy-030512

We have a winner.

[hawgchaser]

Quote:

We have a winner.

Congratulations!! Will three chairs be enough for the "We" celebration or should I bring a fourth just in case?

[PierBridge]

Poor Teddy Bruschi must have lost the coin flip in the back room at ESPN. Somebody had to take the opposite side of the vast majority of players view here, just kind of ironic one of the cheapest SOB's from the Patriots of all teams was the one. He looked terrible trying to act like he was outraged over this. He got his arse handed to him by the rest of players he was debating.

The BOUNTY changes NOTHING NADA a thing as far as the hits or injuries go.

The only reason this is a story is because the NFL is trying clean things up and protect it's image.

Yes the coaches should not have been involved. They will pay a price and rightfully so for being so d u m b ~

I wonder if Nishi from the Twins who had his leg broken at 2nd base after being told by his coach to be careful because every base runner coming into 2nd base is going to try to break his leg can Sue somebody now..or maybe a basketball player who was INTENSIONALLY fouled could make some extra cash in court.

Go Vikes~

[Scott M]

Back in 2009 the Vikings should have taken a cue from the Saints and pounded Brees on handoffs or just as he released the ball (legal hits). Eye for an eye. They knew what was coming if they watched film and it was a good strategy. Instead the Vikings made too many mistakes and lost the game.

It will be interesting to see what the league decides. Spygate, the Joe Smith fiasco, Pete Rose betting. If you break league rules knowingly, the punishment is usually pretty harsh.

[flipper]

The vikings are always too busy with their sexcapades to think of much else.

[LMITOUT]

Hey now....that happened at Lake Minnetonka in international waters so they did nothing wrong.

[TR21HP]

Let's get back on topic. The thing that bothers me the most is idiots like Sharper and others saying that they are going after the "snitch" that leaked the story. This just reinforces the gangster, thug mentality that is all too prevelant in major sports today. I hope Goddell throws the book at the Saints as this has no place in football. And for those of you who think this is widespread you're sadly mistaken. Performance incentives, yes bounties, whose sole purpose is to injure a player, no.