Saints paid players to hurt foes

[KrabbyPatties]

I don't care if every team does it. It needs to stop and the Saints are a great opportunity to make an example.

[LMITOUT]

NFL's new logo:

[KrabbyPatties]

OK LMIT--I guess I'd rather watch 2 hand touch.

If your idea of a good football game is watching players trying to deliver game-ending (let alone season or career ending) injuries to the opposing quarterback, knock yourself out. Extended commercial breaks to allow for stretcher details doesn't interest me, I guess.

[LMITOUT]

If your idea of a good football game is watching players trying to deliver game-ending (let alone season or career ending) injuries to the opposing quarterback, knock yourself out.

I've already stated that I don't care for cheap shots as a way to win games.

But people are acting like the Saints were living out the opening scene of The Last Boy Scout or something.

[KrabbyPatties]

OK, but if I were getting paid $50,000 for a cart-off, I'd be out there with a tire iron.

It's pretty significant.

[SneakAttack]

Miami Hurricanes were rumored to have bounties in the 80's, its not right but its not the first and last time this will happen

[YiGGiN4SLoBS]

Greg Williams acting as some sort of mafioso boss paying his players to carry out "hits" on other people and being punished for it doesnt make the game flag football like. I dont care if the saints beat the vikes 2 years ago or not. Dont care if its the saints, rams, cardinals, lions, chargers, whoever... they should be punished for this non-sense. If only for the fact they were dumb enough to get caught at the least. Yeah, i agree, im sure players have tried to take other players out of the game before in the history of the league. Not quite sure ive ever heard of something like this though.

Who dat, who dat, who dat gon beat dem saints? Themselves

[LMITOUT]

First rule of Bounty Club: You don't talk about Bounty Club.

[PierBridge]

As far as I'm concerned the Vikings are the 2009 Superbowl Champions....

Bounties have been around forever.

I'm still embarrassed to this day about our 7th grade football coach instructing us to PINCH the other teams players stomachs after we tackled them and we did it.

[flipper]

What are you Vikings fans going to find to cry about next???? I was at the Mon nite game when the headhunting Vikings ended troy Aikman's career. Didn't hear anybody in Minnesota crying then.

[YiGGiN4SLoBS]

I suppose the vikings coaches were paying players to hit him in the head too... righhhhhht

"Second rule of Bounty club- NO ONE TALKS ABOUT BOUNTY CLUB!!!!"

[Scott M]

Just watched a montage of hits Favre took in 2009, and all I saw was a hit to his legs that should have been called.

Here's a snippet from an ESPN piece:

Warner, who retired after the 2009 season, responded to a fan's comment on Twitter that even if the Saints had a bounty program a playoff hit on Warner was clean. Warner tweeted, "I would have to agree with you!!!"

"I don't want to say that there was an attempt to injure, but I definitely think there were games where I could tell you that it seemed that they went beyond what was normal in regard to when they were going to hit me or how they were going to hit me," Warner said on the NFL Network. "Again, not with the intention necessarily of hurting me, but knocking me out of my game to get me to think about things differently. If by chance they hit me and knocked me out of the game, maybe that's a benefit for them."

On the flip side, here's a snippet from ProFootballTalk from Williams as his team prepared for the Super Bowl:

[Williams] is willing to risk a few 15-yard walk-offs if it means that Manning eventually will be carted off the field.

“When you put too much of that type of worry on a warrior’s mind, he doesn’t play all out,” Williams said. “If it happens, it happens. And

the only thing you’d like for me to say is that if it happens you hope

he doesn’t get back up and play again.”

It's a thin line between telling your players to go out there and lay some wood because it will rattle the other team versus telling your players to go out there and knock the other star players out. One is legal, one is illegal, but both can be done with legal hits.

[Rick]

This is football, not baseball. Does anyone really believe that this is the first time someone went out on the football field with an intent to "take somebody out"? Come on.

I guess it's time to dumb it down some more. Might as well put flags on their waists and just get it over with.

Much ado about nothing and just a bunch of feigned outrage on this message board due to the fact that New Orleans beat Minnesota in the NFC championship game.

Good grief.

I can't believe you said this LMIT! Because it's not baseball and/or because you believe it's been done before you're saying it's OK to put a bounty out to seriously injure fellow players.

Since when does playing football....a game...make it OKAY to put a bounty out to HURT-INJURE-& MAIM other human beings.

I can understand accidental injuries, it's a rough game for sure...

I cannot understand the condoning of, no even worse...PROMOTING the Injuring and Maiming of fellow football players.

You do realize, no matter how you minimize or back pedal...

YOU ARE saying that it's OKAY to promote injuring and maiming other players and putting a bounty out to do that LMIT!

Good Grief!!!!!

[Scott K]

Lets say this was a highschool game, and the opposing team had a program such as this, and it paralyzed your kid. How would you feel about the bounty thing then? It is wrong, and all involved should be punished heavily! The Saints organization should be hit HARD! No draft picks for 2 years. The coaches involved should be banned from Pro sports forever, and all players involved should sit out an entire season, without pay. It is plain stupid!

[hawgchaser]

Eyes,

My emotional reaction would be predictable. If the hit that injured my son was a clean hit, the injury is the unfortunate result of playing a rough, physical game regardless of whether there was a bounty system or not. However, the individual who lays money down and more specifically the individual who would collect the money, regardless of whether his hit was clean or not, are subject to reproach because of actions of advocating and celebrating such injuries. It not about the hits and injuries. Its about the actions of those promoting and responding to the bounty system. It's virtually impossible to determine intent so actions after injuries will be the major focal point.

BTW, Some of the Vikings players are jumping on the bandwagon about the 2010 playoff game. If memory serves me right, virtually all the hits that brutalized Favre were were clean hits. Perhaps if Favre had had protectors rather than watchers, the Saints defense wouldn't have looked so aggressive.

[TR21HP]

The Commish will be coming down hard on the Saints and not just because of the bounties. They had been under investigation before the story came out and the Saints were notified in a formal letter to all teams that this behavior would directly affect not only the players but anyone else knowledgable and the Saints continued to employ this .Goddell has a very strong track record when it comes to matters like this and I think we will find out today or tommorow what the players, coaches and owners fate will be.

[mainbutter]

This needs to go beyond "NLF penalties".

Criminal charges should be pressed.

It's one thing to have a rough game, but football is not a fight sport and there is nothing in the rulebook that makes them immune to the law.

This kind of behavior goes beyond playing a game hard, and has crossed into the realm of conspiracy to commit multiple assaults that have long-lasting personal and economic injuries.

Just because 'we know it happens' doesn't mean that concrete evidence of a single case should be dismissed, declaring it 'business as usual'. When we hear of PEDs, if there is concrete evidence of a case, it should be jumped all over.

This is an issue that is way worse than PEDs, and should not be tolerated.

[griff321]

BTW, Some of the Vikings players are jumping on the bandwagon about the 2010 playoff game. If memory serves me right, virtually all the hits that brutalized Favre were were clean hits. Perhaps if Favre had had protectors rather than watchers, the Saints defense wouldn't have looked so aggressive.

Without question the O-line was terrible that game, but the hit that messed up his ankle/foot and caused him to throw the game ending pick instead of trying to run it a bit and kick a FG was a high/low. That's a VERY dirty hit. Or perhaps when Greer twisted AD's ankle back and forth at the bottom of a pile last year. This was after he missed 3 games with a H.A.S. These are not the only instances of how super dirty the saints are.

[Scott K]

I dont care about Favre, what the Saints were promoting was illegal, and I hope those who promoted it, gets jail time as well. It is serious! Think of it this way, if you were in a shopping mall, and someone cleaned your clock, and later you found out, there was a $500 bonus for a group of people that would send anyone to the hospital, would you then look at it as the same way? Oh well, people at the mall get injured all the time.

[reinhard1]

i agree with you here. if in fact someone is ordering someone to hurt or injure someone it should be a criminal matter. especialy if the person doing the damage is compensated for it in any manner. it will be interesting to see how this is handled. good luck.

[TR21HP]

You're not going to see any criminal charges filed but you could see some lawsuits from players whose careers were shortened or ended due to pay for hire hits. One thing being aggressive another thing being dirty.

[mrklean]

I'm very interested to see what fines and penalties are given out, ill give it to Goodell he doesn't mess around when he gives penalties and fines out

[toughguy]

I think the biggest deal to the NFL is that the Saints were told to stop it and they didn't. That's what's going to cause Goodell to make an example of them. I have a feeling the boot will come down so hard you won't see this again for many years.

That said I've seen worse - This is from the Packer Bear game where Martin had numbers written on his towel and was crossing them off

[ozzie]

the main thing in this case is that they were getting paid extra for those bounties. It is different than saying lets put some heat on the qb and make sure he knows we are there...A system that pays for the injuring of a fellow football player that is out there trying to earn a living just like them is wrong in so many ways. Goodell should hit all involved pretty hard.

[kg2]

NFL retirees are now saying that the NFL didn't go far enough warning players of long-term damage from concussions. The NFL has to make an example of any late or questionable hits. They need to be worried about liability.

[mrklean]

NFL retirees are now saying that the NFL didn't go far enough warning players of long-term damage from concussions. The NFL has to make an example of any late or questionable hits. They need to be worried about liability.

Not to down play the former players and there health issues concussions and what not but we live in a sue happy world now, if someone thinks that can make millions by suing they will. I understand that some are having medical issues but who really thinks 250+ pounds players flying and hitting each other in the heads for 20 weeks a year isnt gonna cause major issues down the road?

[nofishfisherman]

There is still another angle to this. Players were getting paid by coaches outside of the terms of their contract.

I can't remember who the coach was but a few years ago the league came down on a coach because he promised to buy a kicker an expensive bottle of wine if he hit a game winning field goal. The coach never did follow through with it because the leauge warned him that it would be considered as paying a player outside of what he is owed by his contract which i guess is a big deal to the league.

I hope they come down hard on this. Really there is no place for this in the game. I get that its a physical game I don't want the league to lose that but trying to intentionally hurt players and take them out of a game is borderline criminal. In my industry i have companies that I'm competetive against, what would happen if I decided to pay bounes to workers who went over to a competitor and beat up their CEO or CFO?

While symbolically it would be fun to see the Saints stripped of their superbowl victory I think the harsher punishment would come from the loss of multiple top draft picks. Make them give up their picks in rounds 1-2 for the next several years. Plus suspend any coaches or players that are known to have participated in the bounty system. Thats the type of punishment that would deter a team from doing it again.

If its just a large fine no one will care, you just put that fine in the category of "cost of doing business" and write it off. In the end the Saints will have made more money winning the Super Bowl then they'll likely lose in any sort of fine.

And for those of who (ok its really just one of you) who seem to think its no big deal because its a common thing. How does the offense become easier to swallow for you just because its not uncommon? There are a lot of crimes that are very common, does that make them ok? People breaking into ice houses is common, people leaving garbage on the ice is common, baiting deer is common, are you ok with all of these offenses? At least in these offenses no one is actually physically injured.

[hawgchaser]

I can't believe the NFL spent all the time to investigate and then compose a 50,000 page summary of the practices if they didn't intend to drop a big hammer on offenders (it's hard for me to believe that number but I've heard it several times) I think many will be shocked at the severity of the consequences. The on-field penalties & fines for illegal hits have brought complaints from players and fans since the league instituted them. This situation with the Saints is the most visible and effective way to underscore once and for all the fact that the the NFL culture has changed for good.

I actually see a parallel in the bait/live well/boat drain regulations. The regulations bring the grumbling (which I really don't understand) and the fines that will come this year will be swift and sure. There will be no guesswork as to whether the rules are intended to be enforced.

If you're a Saints fan, I wouldn't be in a hurry to order tickets to see your team in the Super Bowl this year.

[nofishfisherman]

What would you guys think about a 2-3 year (postseason ban for the saints? Ban them one year for each year they violated the bounty rule.

That would have a pretty profound impact and should get the message across.

[Scott K]

I say strip the team of all draft picks for 3 years. Life time ban from the NFL of any coaches involved in it, and a 3-6 game suspension, along with a $100,000 fine to any players involved. Progressive of course, if the players have been warned already for roughness.