Thoughts On 220's

[swampman]

Jonny p your pm box is full

[Trashguy]

Jonny P, I hear you loud and clear, really I do, (-: but that doesn't answer the question I asked. You gave a comparison, not an realistic answer to my question, about how I am suppose to keep my dog under control, as I wrote above. If the leash idea is ridiculous, what do you suggest? I guess then the answer from the people that trap (notice I didn't say "your side") has to be stay out of the woods during trapping season. I know if some changes are made to the way you have to trap, it may lead to fewer $$ for you, but you will still be able to do what you love, be it differently. If I loose months out of the year not being able to enjoy those woods with my dog, how do you put a $$ amount on that?

[walleye365]

Im lookin at this from the outside lookin in. I hunt (no dog) im not a trapper its pretty clear to me that Mr. Ward is worryed more about votes then anything ok theres more doghunters/doglovers then trappers i would think and i see only one side being asked to change or possiably made to change something wrong here IMO. Iv never come across one of these traps and i put on hundreds of miles each year on foot.Not a fan of the government changeing game and fish laws either once they start one never knows what else they might want to tinker with. GoodLuck

[9339za]

Few questions for ya 9339za

How exactly has the woods changed since you started? when did you start? hunter and trapper numbers are both lower than they were 30 yrs ago

How many bobcats you think you are going to catch in a elavated body grip?

If you set your dogproofs in a place you are even afraid to set a foothold what about somebodys cat? dp's are'nt cat proof what is a responsible trapper supposed to do about that?

Just curious to your answers

When I started in MN in the 60's I could set next to the trail and never worry about a hunter with a dog. Now I don't know a single trail that doesn't get covered by someone with a dog. It's not just hunters either.

No one is saying trap bobcats off the ground. We have footholds that work better than body grips.

You are not going to catch cats with sweet bait in dog proof coon traps.

[9339za]

How many more dogs do you think we can kill before we kill the wrong one and really get slammed in the legislature?

Change is coming in how we use body grips. Either we accept change and stop killing dogs or we lose them completely. Half steps will only postpone the inevitable and make it worse. Is that what you want? What about our kids? WIll they trap or do you even care?

[FCspringer]

I think this bill is a joke. In 20 some years trapping I cought 1 dog. He was tresspassing 2 miles from where he had permission. The 220 was wraped on the Labs head. Did not hurt the dog. The dog went to the owner and he could not figure it out so he took the dog to the vet, who easily took the trap off. The man called me and asked me to pay the bill. I laughed and then replied that if he wanted to pay for a trespassing ticket and trap tampering ticket, and a new trap, he could keep it. He gave me my trap back and have had no trouble ever again. If dog owners avoid high risk areas there is no need for legislation. That would ruin the use of the most humane method of trapping coon. A upland predator and nest raider. Most farmers or land owners will tell you if there is a trapper on the land for crying out loud. Avoid areas in road ditch culvert areas, creek edges near a road, abandon farm sites, small game trail areas leading from a woods to a corn field and you will most likely never in your life run into one, Ever. Trappers wish to avoid you, you are a problem for him. To call them names like thieves, thugs and so on is rubbish. I am a pheasant hunter, breeder trainer, lover of dogs and a trapper. How can I trap my land and not have dogs get caught? Perhaps the dogs caught were in places they had no permission, or failed to ask if there was a trapper, or a stray off lead free running all over? Yes Or a very rare accident. Millions more dogs are killed by cars, perhaps the bleeders want to stop driving?

[Saw557]

Everyone is talking compromise so how's this. No 220's on the ground until Dec1 close grouse season on Dec 1 and keep the current conibear water set rules ( half submerged) bird hunter will still have a month and half to two month season and trappers won't have something unreasonable stuffed down their throats

[swamptiger]

Quote:

Everyone is talking compromise so how's this. No 220's on the ground until Dec1 close grouse season on Dec 1 and keep the current conibear water set rules ( half submerged) bird hunter will still have a month and half to two month season and trappers won't have something unreasonable stuffed down their throats

This to me is an entirely reasonable and workable solution for both sides.

This particular season was worse than normal for dog/conibear conflicts because of the warm weather - in the north zone anyway. I ran into a couple of grouse hunters with dogs in December after deer rifle season this year. Don't ever recall that happening before.

[jparrucci]

Sounds like a reasonable compromise to me

[Ray1]

Compromise would be EDUCATION on both sides.

[swamptiger]

As far as the coon thing goes, I watched a seminar put on by a guy at the trappers convention a year or two ago who strictly used dog proof traps. He is a longliner and catches high numbers of coon with dogproofs, so that's proof to me that it works. And probably makes more sense anyway in pheasant country. Don't remember his name..

[Trashguy]

Everyone is talking compromise so how's this. No 220's on the ground until Dec1 close grouse season on Dec 1 and keep the current conibear water set rules ( half submerged) bird hunter will still have a month and half to two month season and trappers won't have something unreasonable stuffed down their throats

I think that might work for a percentage of the grouse hunters. The problem with your compromise/suggestion it does not benefit the non hunter. There are 1887 signatures as of right now on that petition that's out there. What percentage of those signatures do you think are hunters versus non hunters? Not to down play your compromise, but there are plenty of people with other interest that use this resource too, not just we hunters and trappers. Just thought I would through that out there again, because I think they may be the majority.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

I think that might work for a percentage of the grouse hunters. The problem with your compromise/suggestion it does not benefit the non hunter. There are 1887 signatures as of right now on that petition that's out there. What percentage of those signatures do you think are hunters versus non hunters? Not to down play your compromise, but there are plenty of people with other interest that use this resource too, not just we hunters and trappers. Just thought I would through that out there again, because I think they may be the majority.

Don't believe that would be an issue at all in the north, because there aren't many folks out tramping around in the woods after Dec. 1st on a normal year. Don't really know about down south. Again, the northern area is completely different than the southern.

[mainbutter]

We don't all have the fore mentioned highly trained $10,000 dog.

We have a mutt that we got from a rescue, and over the past 2 years we've put hard work into making sure that he is REALLY good at heeling and recalling. I call him away from chasing squirrels at a dead run all the time, if you can't call your dog away from a motionless pile of meat, [PoorWordUsage], or other "dog-interesting" object, he should be on a leash. If your dog is out of eyesight, you should call him back to you. If he runs off all the time, work on heeling for ANY accompanied travel on foot.

It's not about the amount of money you have to put into a dog, but the amount of time and hard work.

[leech~~]

On my way to Ely ice fishing this weekend I seen three different sets of dogs running fields and wood edges a long way from any farm and not one person insight! Just as Trappers need to be responsible for their trap sets. Dog owners need to be just as responsible for their animals! I'm sure these dogs didn't know where the propriety lines were to know if they were on their own land without any traps set out there.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

Dog owners need to be just as responsible for their animals!

Absolutely. Don't know about your area, but in my neck of the woods, we have a long-standing unwritten code of how we handle dogs who run wild.

[Trashguy]

Hey mainbutter, just curious, how long you been hunting? Ever hunted grouse, or just squirrels?

[swampman]

I see this as a dog hunter trapper conflict only, people have access to plenty of places to walk there dogs without fear of traps, county/city parks as just a couple examples, while they may pay taxes on the other public lands that does'nt give me the right to set traps in parks that I pay taxes on. I think there is a workable solution to this without caving to a media news story about a few isolated instances.

[mallardnwalleye]

I trapped before there was widespread use of Conibears. It isn't that difficult! That said I find it hard to believe that these hunting dogs are dying in 220's with there owner's nearby and that people can't get there dogs out of them. A 330, yes that is a dangerous trap. My grandfather actually trapped a theif in a barn once with one and both my brother and I had bruised dents on our ankle from getting too close to sets that we had on beaver slides. We didn't have all kinds of problems before with 220's, what has changed? Or is someone confusing a 220 for a 330? Are people letting there dogs roam unattended? I think these cases need to be examined further.

[jparrucci]

There is a big difference between a free roaming dog and a hunting dog quartering in front of you. A dog could easily find a trap a person cannot see. Education helps but it is not going to be the only solution for this issue. 220 can kill a dog instantly.

[sheepheadslayer]

If you would all do each other a favor and call your local CO and ask them how many dogs in trap case they have worked or seen. Spoke with a 23 year vet and he had one case of a 220 on a dogs nose. He took it off of the dog (which was a stray) and took it to the pound. Thats it 23 years and the only one.

[jparrucci]

Do us a favor and call all 6 dog owners who died this year due to traps.

[jparrucci]

Again just to be clear, any restrictions should only apply to public lands.

[swampman]

The truth of the matter is a hunter and his dog are at more risk driving to your hunting spot than actually engaging in the sport. You can make all the laws and legislation you want and bad things are still going to happen. Sorry. We can outlaw guns and people will still be shot,we can outlaw bodygrip traps and there will still be a dog somwhere die in one it is unfair and I am sorry. I have lost 3 dogs to cancer 1 to car and none to a trap. I contracted cancer 2 years ago not from any lifestlye habit but by a unlucky draw of the cards. Of all the scary thing in life the chance that my dog may come across a 220 trap set somewhere is one I don't lose any sleep over.

[Trashguy]

+1 jparrucci

and long as the subject of risk has come up again, why can't the person who sets that trap and kills someones dog be held responsible with a fine or what ever? If we dog owners are to take the so claimed small risk, why not that trapper also? I mean if its such a small risk, you wouldn't ever have to worry about paying restitution for that dog. Its never going to happen anyway, so why not? Probably because your answer is "you don't want to risk it"? If your other answer is you don't have to, because what you are doing is legal, well so am I when I'm out there with my dog doing our thing. We are not talking about stray dogs here either or private land, but dogs that are with their owners on public land.

[swampman]

I am with you guys on the private land part but thats not the way the guy wrote the bill up. I would personally have no problem with the restitution if that would make you happy it could even be fairly cheap every trapper throw in 5 dollars to a fund, 5 dollars times say 6000 trappers should make a good fund, problem with that is who is going to make a restitution value we both know thats not going to work. I try to get along with the hunters as most trappers do, I live in the pheasent range and don't set bodygrips on wma or wpa's I usually wait un till at least a hour after sun rise to go out and check my muskrat traps I can legally be out there at 5am but wait so I don't mess with the duck hunters to much and reduce the chance of getting shot.

If we have to go to shorter split seasons so we never conflict ok , everybody loses, hunters(I am one) are not the sole land owners of the public property either.

I am sure the anti's are all just loving this, playing right into there hands won't be long trappers and hunters will all be out there trying to catch something in a sack, in case you guys have'nt been paying attention for the last 30 yrs or so there is a whole lot of people afraid of our guns. I don't see this as just a 220 issue but something bigger.

[Trashguy]

Actually, swampman, restitution wouldn't make me happy. I was just using what I posted above as a comparison/analogy on the risk thing that is always being brought up. Enjoy the rest of your day, Trashguy

[9339za]

Actually the best ammo we can give the anti's is a dead dog. Cornish isn't doing us any favors either.

I'm hearing news that at least 25 dogs have been documented as dying in body grips in the past few years. That guy Jason at the DNR said they don't have a clue how many dogs are being killed because they don't keep track.

Laws are made for all of us and just because most trappers have never caught a dog and never will that doesn't mean we don't need to change the way we use body grips.

[FCspringer]

I see no need for change at all.

[9339za]

We're only allowed 5 cats, 5 marten with 2 replaced by fisher, and 4 otter for a total of 14 animals. I'm still trying to figure out why any professional trapper needs to set two hundred 220's for weeks on end to catch 14 animals.

If you don't mind my asking other than otter what are you trapping with 220's in the water that you have to move the traps to dry land after freeze-up Jonny? They're too big for rats and mink and too small for beaver.