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Thoughts On 220's


motley man

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The current proposal is not a fair solution I would not support it. The is no need for any changes on or in wetlands

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Quote:
Gentleman,

I have come to realize I am being faced with what may be an end of a 100 year legacy, a livelihood and just a way of life in Northern Minnesota. Sen. “Chuck” Wiger and Rep. John Ward plan to propose a bill intended to protect dogs from being harmed in the body gripping traps after a tear jerker news broadcast on WCCO TV.

Now I can understand the plight of dog owners as some 220 “body gripping” traps can be set in MN for raccoons in a manner that dogs can enter them and can be harmed. An original suggestion of elevating the 220 or utilizing dog proof boxes for raccoon bait sets has its merits.

Where this has over stepped the bounds is this proposal appears to be targeting ALL sizes of body gripping traps. Not only shocking but what will be a devastating blow to the trapping community, is the request also includes ALL water set body grip traps to be completely submerged, contrasting the current half submerged law that is currently in place for the 330 size body grip trap. These traps will be banned from performing as completely submerged and highly elevated works with very limited success.

Now I can debate the rights of trappers’ verses the rights of dog owners until the cows come home, but another larger problem for Minnesota will start small and grow out of proportion.

This proposal will not only greatly reduce the efficiency of the trappers that attempt to continue to trap, but will be the final straw in pushing many trappers out of the sport. Not only will Minnesota lose licenses and outdoor recreation dollars but our varmint and predator control systems is going to list and capsize. Currently the DNR in conjunction with the trapper work to keep these populations in check, what we will see is a swing in the favor of the varmints and predators. This will include raccoons, coyotes, skunks, muskrats, beavers and many other animals that will become overpopulated becoming a nuisance problem. Senator Skoe I do not need to explain to you the problems that can be created when beaver and muskrat grow over populated or go unchecked; your agriculture background has shown you that first hand. I also will hate to see what happens to small game populations as ground bearing furbearers grow in numbers and start gorging on nesting birds and eggs. Grouse, Sharp-tail, Pheasant, Ducks and a long list of target species for the Minnesota sportsman will come under attack like they have never seen. Lake home owners will lose shoreline due to overpopulated muskrats, road crews will spend endless dollars clearing beaver plugged culverts and flooded roadways. What is the scariest is damage to protective ring dikes, flood diversions and other water control systems. The burrowing of uncontrolled beaver, otter, muskrat and skunk populations will become very apparent when the integrity of flood diversion mechanisms fail. Sadly this will happen when they are needed the most.

This issue as minor as it may be for many is very important to Northern Minnesota. With the body gripping trap only allowed completely submerged or 5 feet off the ground it renders the trap basically useless. Trappers will be forced to return to 1940’s methods of foothold trapping and snares, a very inefficient method that will greatly reduce harvest numbers. Or many trappers will just give up the sport as many have already stated they will do. Loss of efficiency and the cost to replace the body gripping traps with other methods will be too much for many to absorb. I as a full time trapper that utilizes Minnesota trapping as a part of my professional income fear this will be too great of a burden, I myself will not be able to continue trapping if this proposal passes.

Please help protect the trapper in Minnesota, we need them.

Jonthan G. Petrowske

Outdoors With Jonny P LLC

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Good letter! That is the kind of stuff it is going to take - counter-constituency - letting them know that not all voters out there agree w/this.... I encourage all to write/email their local representatives about this in a simliar fashion. It does not have to be long - just long enough to let them know that you disagree with an upcoming bill.

If you don't mind me asking (JP.), who in Park Rapids have you found? I live 25 minutes from there, is all...

DC

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Jonny - send a copy of that letter to Tony Cornish, too. Don't know if you know him, but he was a former CO and I believe he also has done some trapping, so I'm sure he has a better grasp of a lot of the trapping issues

than most of those guys.

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Contacted Tony this morning. He has been arguing with Wiger over the bill for weeks. He told me to contact the MTA and have them on top of this ASAP. Im sure they are but anybody that doesnt belong this a great time to join. He will fight it but he's only one voice. We need to contact all reps ASAP.

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He told me to contact the MTA and have them on top of this ASAP. Im sure they are but anybody that doesnt belong this a great time to join. He will fight it but he's only one voice. We need to contact all reps ASAP.

+1..

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Well written letter jonnyp. Just so we are all on the same page here, let's get a few things established. Body gripping traps 220s and maybe 160s are dangerous to dogs, and the problem is not going away. Hunters and trappers both want the same thing, to enjoy the outdoors. None of us here want body gripping traps to go away. A happy medium is changing some season dates around and not allowing ground set 220s on uplands during a certain timeframe. They will be allow on private grounds at any point, and in wetlands at any point (not the dumb wording in the current bill). This would give bird hunters a window to hunt without worry of dogs getting into traps, and give trappers the right to continue to use an effective trap. Any arguments with this?

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To whom it may concern,

The proposed usage ban of the body gripping trap in Minnesota from Rep. John Ward & Senator Chuck Wiger will affect many legal and ethical trappers negatively across our state.

The usage of body gripping traps only allowed in sets higher than 5’ off the ground or completely submerged under water will be a blow to many trappers that will push them out of the sport forever. A way of life that has been in our state since the early days of settlement.

The northern region of our state that traps for marten, fisher, bobcat the 5’ restriction will drastically reduced harvest numbers and with the bobcat a high value fur species that do not readily climb will all but take most trappers out of the sport as the 220 conibear is the most effective and sometimes only means to harvest these animals in short seasons and heavy snow conditions. Without harvest of these highly efficient predators sporting bird numbers will plummet in time. Disease will affect many numbers of animals that could have been avoided. Starvation will come into play as predator numbers rise and prey species numbers decline, Domestic predation will increase with the decline of prey for these predators. Trappers along with their essential equipment are the front line of defense for correct management and well being of many animals in our state.

With use of completely submerged body gripping traps around waterways will make harvest on beaver, muskrat, mink, raccoon, otter also a futile attempt. Without control on species such as muskrat and beaver our roadways, lake shores, river banks will deteriorate and produced damage that in some cases will be non reversible. The non or limited harvest of these animals will effect a wide spectrum such as spawning of sport fish, valuable timber sales will be lost to flooding, farmers will suffer crop damages. This change will not only be on a ecological level but also a economic level to the state.

The use of the body grip trap in the state has a wide use and is an essential tool to the ecosystem and trapper of Minnesota. This will affect some full time trappers in a way that will not allow them to produce an income to support their family’s needs. Trapping is not a thing of the past but a part of our present and needed in our future. I am a 3rd generation trapper in my family, If a proposal of a non efficient way to use the body grip trap is passed, our only land set allowed with a 3 day tending period I will be forced to put my trapping heritage aside for most parts of the year as time constraints will not allow me or other part time trappers to enjoy a tradition passed down from generation to generation.

The states trappers have been at the fore front of education on trapping, mandatory education prior to legal trap setting and license purchase, adding education into our game law booklet on proper release methods of the body gripping trap. We are a proactive and conscientious group passionate about our sport and way of life. The proposed changes to our methods of uses on the body gripping trap look to mirror those of other states why follow when we can lead in better applications to benefit all. Our state is one of the most diverse in our nation for outdoor sporting activities a cookie cutter style of management will not address our issues or opposing parties concerns.

This change I feel will be a detriment to our ecosystem, economy, and way of life for many honest families in Minnesota. Please keep these people in mind with this concerning issue.

Sincerely,

Jon Dahl

Bemidji, MN, 56601

Letter I have sent out this morning to as many government contacts i can think of I'm no poet by anymeans but hopefully a bug in an ear.

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Any arguments with this?

That sounds workable to me. And if they forget about the airborne part...

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Can someone point me in the direction of where I can see the Bill that Ward & wiger are going to propose ?

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You are probably going to get arguments from "non hunters' who use the woods/resource for other reasons all through out the year. I for one love to hunt sheds come snow melt, but am more worried now than ever about my Springer ending up in a trap. Changing the trapping/hunting seasons, won't effect their use of the resource. Still think flagging the area where traps are set would help. I know it has been said that it didn't fly with bear baiting (I still saw those signs in the woods last fall by the way) or may lead to more theft, but I'm not going venture into that area, so I'm not going to rip off your traps. Maybe you would end up with less theft/traffic.

Another thing I was thinking about. Some trappers are saying that having the proposed change of setting off the ground, that it is not near as effective and they may just give it up. Won't less trappers/harvest end up with more demand and higher prices? Maybe end up with same or close to $$ coming in? Bet if the proposed changes come about, the first trappers to give it up, would be the novice/sport or lazy ones. Again leaving more areas open and more game to trap.

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Won't less trappers/harvest end up with more demand and higher prices? Maybe end up with same or close to $$ coming in?

It would be nice if it worked that way, but it really doesn't. Wild fur is dependent on market conditions and demand - mostly from foreign markets, and the competition is with ranch fur.

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Bet if the proposed changes come about, the first trappers to give it up, would be the novice/sport or lazy ones.

When prices rise is when you get the inexperienced trappers.

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I'm upset that in the Star Tribune, two of the people complaining about their dogs getting killed are people that have or still trap. If my dog gets caught in someone's conibear, I'm not going to complain to a bunch of lefties about it. good grief.

Also, before this all happened I purchased hundreds of dollars of conibears....if I can't use them next fall I'll be [PoorWordUsage] off. And I didn't get a single 220. Just 110's and 160's. If I can't use those tiny little harmless traps, I won't know what to think about the state of Minnesota anymore.

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160s are not tiny. I can almost start to squeeze the spring on it, and my dog can get his head in it easily. 110 is something even a small hunting dog would have trouble getting past his nose, and can be freed with no tools.

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For some reason I wrote 160's but meant 120's. Which are the same as a 110 with more spring power. my mistake. 160's are dangerous for smaller dogs...I don't use land set conibears tho

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I really want to get back into trapping but this is some of the kinda of stuff I hate hearing about BAN all body grip traps. Then what?

Whats next someones dog gets in a leg hold trap and is now lame because of it. Do you outlaw all traps.

It will start with body grip traps then keep going.

What happens if that dog kills the farmers chicken or someones pet cat or another dog? Do they have to exterminate all the dogs? That would be silly just like this proposal for body grip traps.

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Here are my thoughts....Its a matter of simple math grouse season opens mid September and runs through the end of December the daily limit is 5 with 10 in possession. Fisher/Martin & Bobcat season opens the last weekend of November and runs for 9 days Any bird hunter worth their salt should have their limit well before the end of the season and before trapping season opens.So the question is what are they doing in the woods during trapping season. No bird hunter their right mind would be out during rifle season myself included. So if they know they may run into traps why are they out there. Maybe the solution is to close grouse season Nov. 1 This whole issue has been blown out of proportion by the media and a small group of anti's that wont be happy until there isnt a trap left in the woods. As far as two state legislators introducing a trapping bill aren't there way more important things to worry about...oh yeah we have to build the Vikings a new stadium

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As a responsible trapper I support the move to get body grips off the ground. Setting them on the ground isn't necessary and trappers need to stop doing it. It's hurting responsible trappers like myself who do NOT set these deadly traps on the ground. I'm already losing access to private land because of the irresponsible trappers who set body grips where dogs can reach them and be killed and I NEVER set them on the ground. It is inexcusable to kill someone's dog. And to do it because you are too stubborn to change or unwilling to listen just makes it worse.

Right here on this site is an ad for dog proof coon traps. http://www.pcsoutdoors.com/raccoon.aspx

I like them because they are fast, lightweight and you can set them where you can't safely set a body grip or even a foothold. That means I have more places to set and more coons at the end of the day because I don't have to drive by those places. And a LOT more to take to the buyer.

Coons climb like crazy if you've got good bait so why not move the body grips off the ground and stop killing people's dogs before you get responsible trappers banned?

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As a responsible trapper I support the move to get body grips off the ground. Setting them on the ground isn't necessary and trappers need to stop doing it. It's hurting responsible trappers like myself who do NOT set these deadly traps on the ground. I'm already losing access to private land because of the irresponsible trappers who set body grips where dogs can reach them and be killed and I NEVER set them on the ground. It is inexcusable to kill someone's dog. And to do it because you are too stubborn to change or unwilling to listen just makes it worse.

Right here on this site is an ad for dog proof coon traps. http://www.pcsoutdoors.com/raccoon.aspx

I like them because they are fast, lightweight and you can set them where you can't safely set a body grip or even a foothold. That means I have more places to set and more coons at the end of the day because I don't have to drive by those places. And a LOT more to take to the buyer.

Coons climb like crazy if you've got good bait so why not move the body grips off the ground and stop killing people's dogs before you get responsible trappers banned?

No trapper wants more restrictions. You sound like an anti. This is your first post and you go calling everyone that sets 220s on the ground irresponsible in your own words. I am very responsible trapper and i hope to keep 220s on the ground. I will use dog proof traps where ever there could be a dog present during trapping season. But why is it all of a sudden a trappers fault if a dog escapes their owner and happends to go into a trap that is set legally and away from any farms or public land. This is such a crock that you would want to do this to the trappers in general. This is why i call you fake.
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+1 I think there alot of trolls and antis trying to stir the pot or maybe they are just ignorant to the fact one more restriction is another nail in the coffin. Like I said above close small game Nov. 1 (after all any law abiding better than thou hunter will have their limit) and it will avoid many of the problems. As a side note I am so sick and tired of the media replaying the same stories over and over the Duluth News ran the same story today thats been in at least two other papers lately.

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So anyone who thinks different from you is an anti? I don't buy it. Accepting change is part of our future. We either accept those changes or we perish as a sport. It's that simple. The woods has changed much since I started and we need to change along with it.

Maybe you can explain how a grouse hunter is supposed to hunt and keep his dog safe from a body grip trap?

Trying to all blame dog deaths on irresponsible dog owners just makes us look stupid.

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I am not blaming dog owners. I am a dog owner myself. I hunt grouse and pheasants. But if my dog ran away from my control why would it be the trappers fault. I understand there is change too but i dont like people taking away anything from us as trappers and hunters. Once one thing goes then they will just want to take more. Why not fight for something that has been around for years? A EDUCATED HUNTER COULD KEEP HIS DOG SAFE BY LEARNING WHAT TO LOOK FOR AND CARRYING A SET OF CONIBEAR SETTERS.

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Sorry ray, but this isn't about out of control wild dogs. My dog works close and I can see him at all times, doesn't mean he still isn't at risk. Closing all bird seasons on Nov 1 isn't gonna happen either, that would have given us a 13 day pheasant season this year. Dec 1 closing of grouse may be realistic since it opens earlier. FYI, that would give trappers a longer season than more hunters.

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Our fisher martin season is only 9 days long.

Another aspect to keep in mind is the latest I have heard the proposal is to ban the 220 on the water also, unless completely submerged. That opener is October 20'ish every year and is a small window until freeze up.

Men I hate to say it but this is start of the end. First the 220, then snares, then leg holds. After that has all been taken care of it will be use of, shock collars, then dogs all together, semi automatic rifles/shotguns and eventaully the taking of wild game.

They got the ball rolling now. Puttng a nail in the coffin of the trappers, turning the outdoorsmans against each other and growing a larger following all using the common household dog.

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I wasn't going to post anymore about this, because I'm not going to change the way some of you feel and I'm not going to change the way I feel either. But could you one of you trappers that keeps bringing up "keep your dog under control replies" answer me one last thing? How am I while busting the brush or hunting the edges of swamps, Aspen edges, or just plain heavy cover,etc, supposed to control my dog when she/he is out in front of me 40-50 feet and she smells & finds that baited five gallon bucket in a split second? Not all of us walk down nicely groomed tails, or wide open logging roads with clear vision many yards left and right. Who do you think is going to find that baited trap first the instinct/nose of my dog or my old eyes. Especially if the set is covered with snow, pine bows, etc. Please tell me with an honest answer and not some smart &%*&^ answers, like keep the dog on a leash. I mean be realistic please. We don't all have the fore mentioned highly trained $10,000 dog. And another thing that has been mentioned, is shorting changing the grouse season, I personally don't have a problem with that, but I bet you half the people that own dogs and are worried about these traps don't even hunt and use the woods/fields with their dogs with them for a variety of other things, year round.

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Few questions for ya 9339za

How exactly has the woods changed since you started? when did you start? hunter and trapper numbers are both lower than they were 30 yrs ago

How many bobcats you think you are going to catch in a elavated body grip?

If you set your dogproofs in a place you are even afraid to set a foothold what about somebodys cat? dp's are'nt cat proof what is a responsible trapper supposed to do about that?

Just curious to your answers

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Quote:
and not some smart &%*&^ answers, like keep the dog on a leash. I mean be realistic please.

As much as you don't want to hear it the leash comment is about the best way the trapper has been able to explain to the dog hunter what taking away the 220 will do. It is as a ridiculous idea that cripples the sport just as putting gun dogs on a 4' leash would destroy most bird hunting.

Just take a breath and think what would it be like if the State of Minnesota passed a leash law on all dogs on all state lands? Just think how that would affect your success. Now taking away the 220 on both land and now water is as crippling to the trapper as keeping a birddog on a four foot leash would be.

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