mn might be allowing scopes for muzzleloader season?

[candiru]

You also add shooting time at the beginning and end of the day. It is the party tagging that hurt things. Somehow, the person that wants to hunt muzzleloader has an open tag when muzzleloader season rolls around.

[PFUNK]

"I like the fact that a scope gives a shooter a clear, unobstructed sight window. The sights on my muzzleloader are bulky, and even at those ranges can easily cover most of the vitals. A scope allows me to place my shot a little more accurately within the kill zone so that I don't make a marginal shot."

I have a big problem with that line of thinking.

if you think your sights or skills create a marginal shot, then hone your skills, decrease the distance to your target.

let me ask you, would you still hunt the muzzle loader season if it was all traditional?

in fact that is a good across the board question, and quite possibly, the answer to why the DNR would never do such a season.

How many muzzle loader season hunters would no longer hunt if modern muzzle loaders were no longer allowed.

secondly,

how many muzzle loader hunters would no longer hunt muzzle loader season if you had to choose your season, one season or another?

finaly, a true muzzle loader, would NEVER refer to them as "muzzys".

I bet those guys still have teddy bears and blankies too.

Why exactly do you have a big problem with that statement? If you read on, I say that more often than not I am going to make a clean kill with the open sights. However, if you play the odds, like I said, a less than perfect shot is going to come sooner with the open sights than it will with the scope... in general. I can shoot a better group at ANY range with the scope than I can with the open sights 99 times out of 100. It is not a matter of honing my skills, it is simple logic. I have spent many hours shooting and ALWAYS check my firearm or bow before the hunt to be sure everything is still zeroed properly. I make every effort to be sure that I am capable of making clean, ethical kills, so if you got the impression I don't do that you are dead wrong. I can shoot 1,000 rounds through my muzzleloader with open sights and I will still shoot a better group with the scope. It gives you a clear look at the target. Like I have already stated, I am not using the scope to extend my range, as I hunt heavy timber and rarely get a chance to take a shot over 100 yards. So telling me to decrease the distance between me and my target is irrelevant. I simply feel more comfortable with a scope. Why does it bother you so bad if I am using one? I have yet to hear from anyone how it is going to change their hunt.

As far as hunting all traditional... you can count me out for now. I attend college and the last thing I can spend money on is another new gun. Got my inline muzzleloader as a graduation gift from my parents because I wanted to get into muzzleloading. If they turned around and said I couldn't use it I would sure be bummed because that would be a big waste of a great firearm. If I had to choose between seasons, and could still use my inline, I would probably do a mix of both seasons as I stated before. One year I may hunt firearm and one year muzzleloader. If I had to choose a single season though, it would be archery. I love nothing more than to spend time in the woods, and it isn't about getting out there to kill something. If I am sitting in a tree stand I am happy, and more often than not I am watching far more animals than I actually have any intention of killing. So if my presence out there during muzzleloader ticks all of you traditional guys off cuz I am stealing all the privacy you used to have, well I am sorry you feel that way. But to be honest, I have just as much of a right as you do to be out there. I pay my fees just like the next guy, and I do my best to be an ethical, responsible hunter so that our resources are conserved and managed. I think you have bigger things to worry about other than the hundreds of guys like me who just want to be spending time in the woods. You aren't going to have weekend warriors out there in harsh December conditions just by allowing scopes. Guys who aren't serious about hunting will find out real quick that hunting that time of the year is TOUGH, regardless of whether or not you have a scope on your gun. That is why I believe you will not see a whole load of bandwagon jumpers if scopes are given the OK.

[nonteepical]

fiber optics are non traditional. scopes are over a hundred years old.

[jay83196]

Pretty sure wI allows scopes and they haven't ruined deer hunting over there. Also its not 150 years ago never will be things have evolved on every level. If it passes and you don't agree with it don't use a scope then, you can sleep at night knowing you stuck to your beliefs. I personaly don't care either way but I don't thinks it matters much either way.

[reinhard1]

last year was my first year using a scope for firearms season. for years i scoffed at using a scope since i hunt up a little north of duluth and realy dont have much of a chance for a shot more than 50 yards. needing adjustments on my glasses and not being comfortable with my shot pattern, even though the grouping was in the kill zone made me decide to use a scope. so if i decide to hunt the muzzleloader season i will use a scope if it is legal. my first priority is to make certain my shot will result in a quick kill when i pull that trigger. good luck.

[lakevet]

Scoped muzzleloader proposals thankfully died again in committee, and hopefully dead for awhile. Never made it to governors desk to be vetoed.

lakevet

[TooTallTom]

Thanks lakevet good to know about the bill dying.

Reinhardt1, I believe it's legal to use a scope if you have eye issues and an eye doctor signs off that there's a medical reason. If you decide to hunt with a muzzle loader, it might be worth looking into.

[Musky Buck]

Good. Got 3 bucks with open sights and could've had 3 more with a scope, had to pass on them as I couldn't declare they were up to our standards so I had to hope to meet up with them again which never happened, with a scope they would've been easy shots, with the naked eye I couldn't tell with certainty. If you can't shoot open sights give it up or get out of your heated box stand and ground hunt closer to where you expect him to come out, you actually have to hunt according to your range but many have shooting lanes cut to rifle hunt and can't comfortably blast those ranges with open sights, there are already plenty putting that pop on pop off scope on already with no regard to the law so there you go. Simple terms, I feel the muzzy hunt should be different than a bonus rifle season with an extra week. After allowing scopes then it would be how about single shot rifles there the same as these in-lines, where does it end in our state, they allow it so we should to, etc. etc. No regard to the resources, just for self gain, people gain, financial gain, what about the over pressured, over hunted, over stressed deer in many parts of Minnesota anyone care or only care about your own ? I want the DNR to make all decisions without pressure about our resources, I don't want some high brow figure who has a relative that wants to hunt or fish a certain way with the know how to float a bill, tired of all of this 2 line fishing, baiting deer, scopes on muskets, etc. Embrace change right, I tried with zone 4 going to zone 2 and in our farming area it changed things for the worse, not all change is successful. You can bash me now.

[Crow Hunter]

"If you can't shoot open sights give it up"

I have a cataract in my dominant eye plus a severe dry eye condition in that eye. This is due to the radiation treatments I went through to knock cancer out of my eye socket. I suppose if I have to quit muzzleloader hunting I could always learn to knit, or crochet...

I don't typically like to make replies with this tone but I get rather tired of people that think this way. Not everyone has the eyesight for open sights, and they have as much right to hunt as anyone else. Nobody needs to remind me that I could get a permit for a 1X scope; I have looked through a 1X scope and it is doubtful it would help much. I hope to get cataract surgery before fall but that won't help the dry eye condition.

Good hunting to all.

[TooTallTom]

Crow Hunter, does a more-than-1x scope help? I ask because it seems like, if the problem is in the eye, it doesn't seem like it would matter how much magnification you put in front of it.

For what it's worth, one of my grandpas had the cataract surgery and couldn't be happier. I hope your operation is in time for hunting, and is just as successful. Keep in mind that there might be a "recovery" period when heavy recoil is not allowed.

[Crow Hunter]

Tom, using the scope on my centerfire rifle at 5x last year helped a lot, but the cataract is much worse now. I have not looked through that scope for a while. My first visit with the eye surgeon is scheduled for July 1, hope to get the cataract fixed up before fall. Crow Hunter

[TooTallTom]

Interesting, maybe it has something to do with light transmission to the eye, rather than magnification?

I hope things go well for you, and that you're back in the saddle soon.

[x1957x]

I agree with Crow Hunter. I have a serious Stygnatism? in my eyes and what it does is makes it hard to focus on something. Actually what happens is when you focus on your front open sight you cant see the back sight or focus on the animal(which will be blurry) or vice versus if you focus on the animal you cant see down the sights. They are both blurry and so forth. People with this problem will agree with me. It is impossible to do when it gets bad! I am 54 years old and it gets worse every year. And I have to take a lot of [PoorWordUsage] from my kids when I miss at 40 or 50 yards. THEY DONT UNDERSTAND how bad this is.(57)

[flipper]

I am 56 myself and can relate to what you are saying. I still feel I can shoot accurately with peep sites out to maybe 75 yards but my eyes get a little worse each year. I was hoping to be able to use a scope just to insure a clean kill, I am not one of those guys that would try to take a 200 yard shot just because I had a scope. There are always those people who take unethical shots with or without a scope. I just thought it would be nice to compensate for some of my loss of vision over the last few years.

[lakevet]

Crow Hunter, x1957x, and flipper,

I have been blessed with good eyesight, but several in our group have not.

One relative has permanent damage and vision loss from diabetes. Even with a scope (as he is more than qualified to have one and easily got the permission to use a scope) he has a tough time. Strangely he is almost 100% shooting at running deer while struggles to hit standing deer. This is likely because he has central vision loss. So we put him on stand where he is most likely to see a running deer! He also has to carry an eye patch to cover his non-shooting eye, because it is his dominant eye, but he has more vision loss in the dominant eye than his non-dominant eye. So out comes the eye patch, he switches from being a lifelong righty to a lefty and PRACTICES ALOT!!!!!! He also has an eye doc who is as hard core about hunting as he is, a very key point!

In summary:

1) Find a good eye doctor who hunts deer themselves and understands the whole sight, target etc dynamic as well as

the love of the hunt! (Sounds like maybe an eye clinic could have a marketing niche on this website)

2) Be willing to do what it takes to experiment with different open sights, if you can't qualify for a medical exemption.

3) Change your hunting tactics to match your shooting abilities. Our group has shot most of our biggest deer at under

50 yds, many under 25 yds. This is also true for the medium and small deer also.

4) PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!

5) Hopefully your group works with you to solve your problem, as you are part of the group.

Hopefully you won't have to use an eye patch and switch from a right to left (or visa versa) but do what it takes.

Our group doesn't tease him, but works hard to position him in the best spot possible for his abilities. We have shot several very large deer the past few years, but the most excited we have been is when he shot 2 does from one stand on one drive. It was a very good day and memorable day for the family, without question.

Keep practicing!!! It is doable!!!!

lakevet

[lakevet]

I agree with Crow Hunter. I have a serious Stygnatism? in my eyes and what it does is makes it hard to focus on something. Actually what happens is when you focus on your front open sight you cant see the back sight or focus on the animal(which will be blurry) or vice versus if you focus on the animal you cant see down the sights. They are both blurry and so forth. People with this problem will agree with me. It is impossible to do when it gets bad! I am 54 years old and it gets worse every year. And I have to take a lot of [PoorWordUsage] from my kids when I miss at 40 or 50 yards. THEY DONT UNDERSTAND how bad this is.(57)

Have you tried a peep sight? The back sight, which is a ring, is supposed to be blurry. In sniper school they teach to stay focused on the crosshairs, not the target. My Dad who coached the Army biathalon team in Alaska in the 1950's always told me to focus on the front sight, not the target. A retired eye doc friend has long sang the praises of peep sights, as they are more accurate, line up faster, and solve the majority of problems that aging eyes experience. If you haven't used them before, you will have to......Practice. But it is worth it. Maybe get a .22 with peep sights to get in more practice. Maybe calling up a shooting range and see if there is a coach that can help with shooting skills, and tips on how to compensate? Not that you are not an accomplished hunter, but if olympic shooters need a coach, nothing wrong with us using a coach for a tune up

Sorry to hear about your kids attitude. Hunting is supposed to be a memorable enjoyable family outing.

lakevet

[PFUNK]

Good. Got 3 bucks with open sights and could've had 3 more with a scope, had to pass on them as I couldn't declare they were up to our standards so I had to hope to meet up with them again which never happened, with a scope they would've been easy shots, with the naked eye I couldn't tell with certainty. If you can't shoot open sights give it up or get out of your heated box stand and ground hunt closer to where you expect him to come out, you actually have to hunt according to your range but many have shooting lanes cut to rifle hunt and can't comfortably blast those ranges with open sights, there are already plenty putting that pop on pop off scope on already with no regard to the law so there you go. Simple terms, I feel the muzzy hunt should be different than a bonus rifle season with an extra week. After allowing scopes then it would be how about single shot rifles there the same as these in-lines, where does it end in our state, they allow it so we should to, etc. etc. No regard to the resources, just for self gain, people gain, financial gain, what about the over pressured, over hunted, over stressed deer in many parts of Minnesota anyone care or only care about your own ? I want the DNR to make all decisions without pressure about our resources, I don't want some high brow figure who has a relative that wants to hunt or fish a certain way with the know how to float a bill, tired of all of this 2 line fishing, baiting deer, scopes on muskets, etc. Embrace change right, I tried with zone 4 going to zone 2 and in our farming area it changed things for the worse, not all change is successful. You can bash me now.

So why would have the scope made those shots easier? You said it was an issue of judging size to make sure the bucks were up to your personal standards, so what if you had a pair of binoculars with? Then you would have been able to judge their size and harvest them with the open sights? Better just ban binoculars too cuz it looks like they might give a guy more opportunity to start throwing lead.

[Musky Buck]

From scoping the head to the body and boom. Fumbling binocs around, trying to get them in focus with numb hands etc. and then low light then 2 more deer are standing with him now which is which etc, back to binocs I guess now 4 are over there, etc.

[BuckKiller]

From scoping the head to the body and boom. Fumbling binocs around, trying to get them in focus with numb hands etc. and then low light then 2 more deer are standing with him now which is which etc, back to binocs I guess now 4 are over there, etc.

Sounds like your just making excuses. Personnaly im 100% against scopes during the muzzleloader season. If youbwant to use a scope on your muzzleloader use it during the riffle season.

[laker1]

A scope would make it just a one shot rifle season. Why than even have the season. Leave it alone it was set up to be a primitive hunt.

[Musky Buck]

Read further up buck killer, I'm with ya 100% against. Just saying with a scope that buck would be on the wall, without I had no chance to make that shot so I guess I should be in favor for selfish reasons, I'd have 3 more bucks down. For the resource sake, I'm glad those 3 survived because in my area there's not enough decent bucks making it to maturity.

[BuckKiller]

Sorry I misread your point. The way your last post was written it sounded like you where for scopes.

[Musky Buck]

Wish I could chime in more but I work for the government (not really) and tripped over my thousands in per diem money I've accumulated over the years and broke all my fingers slamming them into my state purchased keyboard. Now I may send body shots like that Weiner guy with my state purchased web cam, smoke a stogy like bill clinton with my female aide, then rub some guys leg at a urinal in the cities like whoever he was. Just trying to lighten the mood and 4 months from now we can head to the woods with our heater of choice.