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Advisory meeting


kelly-p

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Kept 4-walleyes the last Sunday morning of the season between 16-17 in. 3 of the 4 were females.

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so why in the world would u open it up all the way to twenty inches then canada is 19.7inches millacs is 18inches

Because we are attempting to;

#1 Stay within the safe harvest range.

#2 Attempt to keep the regulations for URL as consistent as we can year to year.

We had thought that the winter season would be the easiest to predict for pounds taken off the lake. This winter with white and bad ice combined with a lot of snow changed that thought. The summer of 2009 when the slot changed in June nobody planned on the cool spring keeping the walleyes in close and the 2 weeks of calm weather that allowed fishing everyday that led to an amazing amount of walleyes coming in. There were very strong concerns that we were going to reach the top of the safe harvest that winter.

The advisory meeting is a group of people trying to do the right things. Some are fishermen, some have a winter business on URL, some have a summer business on URL, some have both, some have business many miles from URL. We do have some things in commen. We are all doing what we think is best for URL and the area. We all have rocks thrown at us by people that do not aggree with our decision.

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just keep ducking Kelly!

Where were you with the advice 45 years ago traveler???? I wasn't born with this squashed nose and these chipped teeth. grin

More intersesting numbers.

The last 3 years 80% of the fishing pressure was from Dec. 1st until the close of season. 20% of the pressure was from Opening weekend until Dec. 1st. Last August and Sept. there was only about 300 hours of fishing pressure. Dec/Jan./Feb. there was 745,000 hours of fishing pressure.

A special note to "theharvester". With the slot opening up on June 15th it means that you have 4 months of walleye fishing on URL when you can take up to a 17 inch walleye. 5 1/2 months when you can take up to a 20 inch walleye.

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I have been asked why Upper Red Lake to run houses when there are a lot of other lakes between my home and there. It's because of the advisory committe, the close monitoring and the involvement of many people to keep the lake stable. Upper Red Lake has a future and it's a place where a fisher mans dreams of trophy fishing and good numbers of Walleyes are present.

If anything can be learned from this lake and this group is this should be applied to more lakes. I will even go as far as saying all lakes in the state. People will come to Upper Red forever because these practices are not on most lakes and most lakes will never have the opportunity to be what they once and could be.

Don't forget meat fisherman killed the lake before and if allowed they will do it again and there are quite a few lakes that are just plain over fished and most have never seen a net. After fishing Upper Red Lake quite a few times my kids are not even interested in fishing any where else and to me that says well done to the advisory meeting, after all kids know if the fishing is good.

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so why in the world would u open it up all the way to twenty inches then canada is 19.7inches millacs is 18inches

If the advisory committee was fitting a regulation for Millacs or some Canadian lake it might not be 17 inches either, but this combination is the best fit for the fishing pressure, harvest patterns, and size structure of the Red Lake walleye population. Why wouldn't you fit the regulation to the fish population you are trying to manage?

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first of all fishing in the winter and fishing in the summer is a little different wouldnt u say second the meat fishermen didnt ruin the lake they netted it out . what about one fish between 17 and 19 not four per person that would keep the harvest down i am thinking about the people that make one or two trips a year and like a meal of walleye and dont know how to fish that good i dont want to ruin the lake either

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Harvester...heres the thing;

A lot of people with access to the research and numbers looked at the data and these are the rules they came up with. They will keep looking at them on a regular basis and suggest changes as they are warrented.

Suggesting different scenarios on an internet forum after the fact will accomplish little.

If you want to get involved in helping to shape the regs, I'm sure there are ways to do that. Look into it.

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One thing that hasn't been discussed in all this is maybe we left some pounds behind last year and it seems the tribe has left quite a few behind. Should they be able to up there take? When you answer that you probaly just ended the discussion. We have done a good job of being close to our take and we should all be grateful that the tribe is content with not even being close to theirs.

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Wow! That has me speechless why would you think they would net more because our take was down? It seems that both the tribe and mn dnr have been working together well and trying to manage the walleyes to keep a healthy population. I hope this continues for many years to come, as many question the laws we all must follow them and hope those making them have the lakes recovery as the number one priorty.

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IMO when I eat a walleye over 17 inches, which have been very few, not that I dont catch many over that, they taste like junk. 17 is a self employed lenght for comsumtion on my behalf. Not rippin anybody here, just a preference.

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what about one fish between 17 and 19 not four per person

We looked at that this past meeting. If during the summer harvest season each fisherman was allowed 1 fish over 17 inches the projected take would be around 200,000 pounds. 32,000 pounds more then the top of our safe harvest range. That would mean that the slot adjustment on June 15th could not longer happen. No more being able to take to take 4 walleyes up to 20 inches from June 15th to November 30th. Also the winter harvest season would most likely have to have a 3 walleye under 17 inch limit rather then the present 4 walleye limit. Also that would lead to people sorting out of their livewell. Taking the 18 inch walleye back out after an hour to replace ot with an 18 3/4 and then an hour later taking the 18 3/4 back out to replace it with a 20 inch fish. That would lead to a lot higher release mortality.

"theharvester", you seem to think that the Advisory just picks numbers out of the air. Everthing that you bring up we have already discussed. Perhaps in the future you should come to the meetings and voice your concerns. Then at the same time you could learn a lot more about what you are posting about seeing as your only posts you have made on this Forum are about the regulations. None of us that live here on URL want to take a chance on the walleyes collapsing again.

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why would you think they would net more because our take was down?

The Red Lake Band has been very cautious with the pounds of walleyes they are taking. I believe that the last 3 years they have averaged about 60% of the top of their Safe Allowable Harvest. From what I have heard their take this past winter was also way down just like ours.

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I think the DNR makes managing our lakes much harder than it is. If we have a protectd slot statewide of 19-26 inches, with a five fish limit. I think most of our problems would be solved. Why try counting fish by lbs. caught. How acurate do you think that is?

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That would be nice to have one regulation statewide. It would save a lot confusion. I think they use weight to try to match the population of fish to what each lake can support with good grouth. To many fish and there is not enough food for the fish to grow so they are stunted. Not enough fish and there are not enough spawners to keep the population up. Here is part of the report from the March 2010 Advisory meeting.

2009 Population assessment results were presented with an emphasis on spawning stock biomass (SSB), the main indicator of population health. SSB has declined from a surplus condition (above 3 lb/acre) for the first time since harvest resumed. We are now in the optimal condition (2-3 lb/ acre) which reduces our annual harvest cap from 240,000, to 216,000 pounds. This decline is not alarming but it should be clear that it reduces the margin for error above our safe harvest range, and further decline below 2 lb/acre would affect the safe harvest range.

Maybe there is someone reading this that understands it and can explain it all to us.

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As much as the gov would like to try, you cannot predict or tell a lake how the spawn will go. They have to keep it a little lower than is probably optimal, because Red Lake will be (probably already is now) returning to a lake that will have ups and downs. People haven't seen it in the last 10 years, but there will be booms and busts of year classes. Who knows, leaving a bunch of poundage on the table may prove to be a bounty of fish 2 years from now to fill buckets.?

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OK I have been running all over the state and Canada as I always have to do in March (pro “motion” season) and I come back to find this discussion and to be honest Kelly is being nice...and patient . It is very simple what we have here.

1) We have a new member complaining about the same thing an outfitter has complained about all winter and only stopped after he was called out on it by his co workers. Funny deal is the outfitter and the new disgruntled user often misspell several words exactly the same way on multiple forums. So if you are not happy and you are a business owner maybe you should hang around and go to the meetings before heading back to the cities the day after walleye season closes. Make your voice heard to the ones that matter instead of stirring the pot on the forums. It’s spring most of the new experts have gone back south until next year’s freeze up and do not pay attention to the forums until next year’s booking season in the late fall. You need to talk to the DNR or your elected officials, not the anglers and outfitters on the forums or your buddies that have returned home after a winter of earfuls from you already.

2) The main drive for cracking open the slot is not males and females or natural loss verses release mortality; it is outfitters and bushiness that where budgeted for a crappie boom that are now in the red and desperately looking for a way to up the gross profits. If you noticed some outfitters scaled back and changed their ways to match the current activity and some are still trying to cling onto masses large of fillet driven anglers and are having a hard time producing results. Opening up the slot would solve that problem for a few years, and then we crash again.

3) The Red lakes are so unique is so many ways they require their own set of rules and one flat rate ruling will never work. We are trying to balance masses of anglers driven by bite and the modern technology from fish finders to forums. Two completely separate cultures with two completely separate sets of beliefs. A lake where the bite or “harvest” is dictated by the wind for six months of the year and to top it all off the lake is still coming into balance form the crash. Red Lake will always have its own regulations from pike to perch it is a bio mass like no other.

My thoughts and statement on this before I head out the door:

Be grateful for what we have; you should have been here during the crash. Let the real experts do their job; it’s why they were chosen for the job. Whether it is the head of fisheries or the guides sitting in the meeting room they are all putting the lake’s best interest first and they have all seen what can happen when it goes wrong. Lastly for those of you not happy with the slot limits or the lake in general go somewhere that will make you happy and stop belly aching. There are still lakes in the far reaches of the Canadian wilderness that that do not get the pressure and you can keep everything you catch. You will need a brush pilot or good snowmobile to go fishing but you do not have to deal with slot limits. As a guide who depends on catch rates for a living I like the current slot limits. I am able to send clients home with fish while assuring I will have a job in five, ten or even twenty years from now.

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just so you know jonny canada has a slot. i dont live in the "cities" either and i have talked to tony .i just think the slot needs a little tweaking my opinion

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I doubt that we will ever agree on this issue "theharvester". URL will out live both of us by a long, long ways. Long after we are dust in the ground URL will still be there. I make my decisions concerning the slots and limits hoping for the future. Hoping that something I did made it a little more posible that my Grandchildren, Greatgrandchildren and anyone else can fish URL like my Grandfather and Greatgrandfather did. I'm willing to keep less walleyes now with the hope that it helps keep URL healthy years after I'm gone from this world. To me URL is a part of my family that ties us together through the generations. It seems to me that to you URL is just a place to go to for a couple months in the winter and rent fishhouse's. I'm willing to sacrifice now for the future of URL. You seem willing to take a chance on jeopardizing the future of URL to make a little more money now. No, I do not see where we will ever aggree on the issue of slots and limits.

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you sure assume a lot of things kelly and by the way we did agree on the pike issue and i fish there year round been going up there for many years and my grandfather fished before there before you were alive and told me stories about the big pike and "crappies" its not about money i just think its a little over protective most people can keep smaller fish if they want its the people that dont fish much that could keep a fish or two thats all. nothing personal the lake will have up and downs naturally now if i would have asked for 6 fish no size i can see all this attack but only dicussed 18

" or one fish between 17 and 19 i want the lake healthy too does anybody agree with me out there at all?

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I think 17-26 is to strict,18-26 or 19-26 year round with a four fish limit, you think would be good enough. But I guess when you have tribal netting and actual counting of the lbs of fish taken this is what you have to do. Last I heard there were less and less people hunting and fishing, aren't license sales down from their peak days. Aren't most kids staying home and playing video games. Why are the regs getting tighter and tighter. I personally throw back any walleye over 20 inches and rarely keep a 19 inch fish. maybe I'll keep one on a slow day if I'm fishing with kids. But throwing back a 17 or 18 inch fish I don't like, and keeping fish this size shouldn't harm the lake. But what do I know?

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the funny thing is people make statements that "why can't they" or "why don't they" and then they say "what do I know"....that is the thing most of us are just throwing out numbers and the experts have used the tools available to them and done the research and have come up with numbers that they seem best for the lake....now if you don't agree don't fish there or do your own research to condradict what the proffesionals have researched and found out. otherwise just go fish enjoy the catch and time spent and follow the rules in place for that body of water and deal with it.............

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Yeah, you pretty much summed it up but.... I was simply responding to Harvesters stament, "is there anyone out there that agrees with me at all." This is an internet message board. It's all pretty much opinions,venting,and [PoorWordUsage]'ing back and forth. Not like anyones making state regs here. smile

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" or one fish between 17 and 19 i want the lake healthy too does anybody agree with me out there at all?

This is a copy/paste of what I posted just last night concerning that.

We looked at that this past meeting. If during the summer harvest season each fisherman was allowed 1 fish over 17 inches the projected take would be around 200,000 pounds. 32,000 pounds more then the top of our safe harvest range. That would mean that the slot adjustment on June 15th could no longer happen. No more being able to take to take 4 walleyes up to 20 inches from June 15th to November 30th. Also the winter harvest season would most likely have to have a 3 walleye under 17 inch limit rather then the present 4 walleye limit. Also that would lead to people sorting out of their livewell. Taking the 18 inch walleye back out after an hour to replace ot with an 18 3/4 and then an hour later taking the 18 3/4 back out to replace it with a 20 inch fish. That would lead to a lot higher release mortality.

Why would you want to have the winter limits cut to 3 walleyes or the June 15th slot adjustment not happen? We can not just "take more fish".

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I don't think anyone is going to go hungry because they could not keep a fish one or two inches longer. If they do have a few more potatoes and beans and you will be fine. Let the advisory board do what they are good at and let it be.

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Wow bummer of a season. I can see harvesters gripes but what the heck. I used to rely on fishing as part of my livelyhood also and can see where a poor bite would leave you disappointed. Man I went through alot of lows out there on Red this winter but what I realized is that the fish are there and it always isn't just in the cards for us to take home a limit each and every outing. Maybe this is just natures' way of keeping us in check too. You know we can't always attach a dollar sign to success and maybe we do that sometime too much and mother nature steps in and shows us who is really in control.

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Just my 2c, but I would rather have a slot from 18-26 and keep 3, if the numbers work out. Throwing a nice 17 1/4" walleye back is kinda a sad feeling when my bucket is empty.

Dont fry me, like I said, my opinion.

Also, I won't keep a walleye under 14 1/2, so that 2 1/2 inch area is just sometimes hard to hit.

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With all this said it's nice to see everyone including the tribe has done a good job with managing this lake and it's great that everyone has this forum to hash out their differences. That's why I sponsor this site and it is a great lake to fish and be part of.

theharvester we disagree as we have had this discussion before but it is still good to get your thoughts and some day it may roll your way, just not today.

KellyP thanks for taking the time to address the questions that everyone has had regarding the issue and for bringing the discussions from the advisory committe to everyones attention.

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I'm really surprised that this discussion lasted as long as it did, because its a no-brainer that when you have local residents, fisheries biologists with SCIENCE backing up their position, and local outfitters coming to a consensus on this issue, it takes a lot of nerve to get on the internet and start bashing it. To all those that want to keep more and bigger fish, shame on you. The attitude of "quantity" versus the "quality" of a fishing experience is an ethical attitude in my book, and I would like to think that Minnesota sportsman as a whole have matured over the market fishing mentality years ago. None of us are feeding our families with this precious resource. If its that hard for you to let a fish go back down the hole, I feel sorry for you.

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