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Bystrom bay is really shallow so I think the only time they would be in there is during the spawn. There are a couple of rockpiles just outside of Bystrom that could be good later in the season. I hit Bystrom for LM and once in a while for Muskies on the points leaving the bay. It just doesn't look deep enough to have any Crappies during the summer. There are some decent Gills in there at times but I just don't fish for panfish enough to have any recent info on that area that would help anyone catch them.

"Ace"

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I have just the outfit. 7 foot MH rod, 5500C3 with 50 lb braid and some of those real thin "invisileaders". Looks like all I need it a few frogs and other similar bait and I am good to go. I have picked up one now and then throwing spinnerbaits for pike but I don't usually go way back in the slop.

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Ace, never been up to V but it is only a matter of time for us.. I have heard alot of muskie fisherman saying that they spend all thier time on the west end. What are your thoughts on East vs West end for Muskies. #'s, avg size, different structure? open water vs shoreline structure, weeds vs rocks, trolling vs casting ect.. you also mentioned natural reproduction and stocked fish, do they act different? But my main questions is can a guy build a nice milk run on both sides and spend one day on the west side and then another day on the east side and have a decent chance to see a good amount of fish on both sides?

Thanks,

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Hey John,

I don't know why so many first timers go to the west end. Perhaps it's because there is more cabbage on the west side and less big water. I fish on both ends and there are some major differences however, I don't think size is one of them. There are a lot more resorts on the west side, so it gets more pressure. I think the weed factor is a big one for a lot of anglers. Perhaps they aren't as confindent on the rocks as they are in the weeds. The east end has more weeds than people think but they aren't willing to spend the time finding them. As for a milk run I don't think you need to go flying all over the lake to find them. Typically if they aren't moving on the west end they aren't moving on the east side either.

I prefer to concentrate on one area and just fish all the good water in that particular area, rather than running helter skelter all over the place. One thing I have learned over the years is that when the west end is slow it's like all the Muskies have moved to another lake. On the other hand, I always seem to be able to move a fish or two on the east side, even when things are really slow. Now I'm sure that anglers that fish the west end exclusively won't agree with that however I spend a lot of time fishing both ends and these observations are the result of 20 plus years chasing Muskies on Vermilion.

You will also find some major differences in water clarity between east and west.

During the summer there is more of an algee bloom on the west end overall than on the east side. I like to go west early in the season however I prefer to fish the east end from july through september. I think the fall action is about even. JMHO.

As for a west /east milk run you can fish the middle basin which includes some of both ends quite easily without having to run more than a few miles. I guess it's just a matter of what kind of water you like to fish, because Vermilion has it all. You'll understand what I mean after fishing it for a few days. Then you'll be able to make your own judgment on which end you'll want to spend your time on.

"Ace"

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Hey John,

I forgot to mention one important thing, I don't do the midnight fishing thing like so many others do. I do fish after sunset however i'm done after 10 or 11pm.

I can still catch them during the daylight hours and I think the early morning action is under appreciated by a lot of Muskie anglers that come up here to fish.

It's hard to get up and go fishing at 5am when you have been up most of the night.

Now again that's JMHO. smile

"Ace"

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Ace

You mentioned the east end weeds. Are there submerged weeds on the east end other than places like Stuntz and Rice bay and way back in the ends of some of the smaller bays? We have a place on the east end and I have spent a lot of time looking, but maybe I am not looking the right spots. There seem to be lots of areas with reeds, but I haven't found much for submerged vegetation. We've done ok fishing some of the reed beds, but I would love to find some submerged east ends weeds to fish rather than taking the 45 minute boat ride to the west end, especially with $4 gas.

Thanks

53orbigger

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Hey 53,

Yes there are submerged weeds on the east end besides Stuntz bay, Greenwood Bay and Rice bay. There are a number of Cabbage beds north of Pine island along with some good reed beds. You'll also find some cabbage in the Vermilion dells area and in Pike bay. You won't find the big cabbage beds like you do on the west end because the rustys have damaged most of them. You will however still find some isolated patches here and there. The key to finding cabbage is sand. On shield lakes like Vermilion anytime you see sand along the shoreline you are bound to find some cabbage there as well. It's not always a large patch, but even those small isolated cabbage areas can hold a fish or two. You will also find some weeds in Armstrong and Mud creek bays along with the reeds. Not as much as before the rustys but it's still there. Your best bet for some realy decent cabbage is on the north side of Pine island. Back in the day there was miles of it up there, but now it's limited to just a few areas here and there. There are a few decent little spots here and there that have produced for me over the years but I think I'll let you find them yourselves. I can't give up all my secrets. smile

"Ace"

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Thanks Ace. I spend a lot of time north of Pine Island. I enjoy stopping into Glenwood and there is one massive fish that I have moved many times, but have never gotten hooks into that lives up there.

Would you consider the east end stained or clear water or does it depend on where you are fishing? Along with that, what are your go to colors for musky and pike? Do you tend towards natural colors or something more loud?

Again thanks for all the good info.

53orbigger

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Ace,

If you where going to book a vacation to fish muskie on vermilion what week during the summer months would you pick and why?

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If I were to book a Muskie fishing vacation it would be sometime between the July full moon and the August full moon. That period is the summer peak and they are at their highest activity level of the season. It's also some of the best weather of the summer as we typically get fewer cold fronts during that period. If I had to narrow it down It would be the last week of July and the first week of August. I have historicaly caught both good numbers and good size during thoes two weeks over a number of years. Of course a major Canadian cold front can destroy the best laid plans of Muskie fishermen, but you just have to take your chances and pick a time frame that you think will put you in the best position to catch some Muskies.

"Ace"

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Thanks Ace,

I already booked for the week of July 30. Just wanted to make sure.

Thanks

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Hey 53,

I use a lot of different colors, but ofcourse I have some favorites that seem to out fish the others. Both loud and natural color patterns can be effective and it can depend a lot on where you are fishing at the time. The west end is much clearer than the east end so I like to use more natural patterns when I'm fishing that end of the lake. Whitefish, cisco and sucker patterns seem to work better on the west end than on the east side. However I have also had success with natural patterns on the east end. For Pike I almost exclusively throw either white or chartruce or a combination of the two. I do throw some yellow/white and some green/white, but rarely do I throw anything dark for Pike.

The only exception would be if I'm throwing a crankbait for Pike, then I go with a more natural presentation. With one exception and that would be the "Clown" which I really like when they are actively feeding. I primarily go after Pike with spinnerbaits and when the time is right a buzzbait. I just think that day in day out spinnerbaits give you the best opportunity to catch fish. Most of my really big Pike have been taken on a spinnerbait, almost without exception. I also throw a lot of spinnerbaits for Muskies and have done very well on them over the years.

I would definately describe the water on Vermilion as stained, however it is much less stained on the west end than on the east end, especially early in the summer.

There are areas of the east end that are realitively clear compared to some other areas however even those areas are considered stained. You can find weeds growing as deep as 12 or even 14ft on the west end, however you will rearely see any weeds deeper than 8 or maybe 10ft on the east end. True you might find some stunted clumps of weeds a bit deeper but you won't find and standing cabbage or coontail that deep. That is a direct result of the stained water not allowing enough light penetration to grow large weed beds any deeper.

OK, all of that has lead us to this. I think sound and action are just as if not more important than the color you throw. We ofcourse develope confidence in color and that's OK, confidence is a good thing. Most preditory fish will hear or "Feel" your bait well before they see it. Color will help them zero in on it however most of the time the action and profile of the bait is what get's them interested in the first place. Especially with fast moving presentations like burning bucktails or ripping a jerkbait. Admitedly there have been times when I really thought that the color I was throwing made the difference and i'm sure that many of you guys have felt the same. However it's just a part of the puzzle and some times it's just

a small piece. JMHO

"Ace"

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Ace,

Muskie fishing...

Lets say you just showed up to the lake for a 6 day trip. If you where going to head out on the lake for the first time with 3 people in the boat and try to pattern the fish, generally what 3 baits would you throw from the front to the back of the boat.

Obviously there are a number of variables to take into consideration. I am just trying to get a feel for how a guide would approach the situation.

Thanks

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Maybe you should just hire a guide for that first day.:)

No really, you'll want to put the faster moving presentation up front, bucktail or a spinnerbait, or perhaps even a fast moving crankbait. The guy in the middle would be throwing a prop style topwater or a medium speed bucktail. The guy in the back gets a glider or a jerkbait, because that is typically the slowest of those presentations. Which bait isn't really that important, it's the speed of the presentation that matters the most. You don't want the guy up in front throwing something slow, because he'll just jam everybody up. The man in the middle is a bit more flexible because the guy in the back has all the time he needs.

Since Vermilion is such a great bucktail lake I would probably have two people on bucktails, glittertails, Cowgirls, whatever. If it's shallow water in the evening I'd have at least two of them throwing topwaters, maybe all three. I would however have a throw back rod ready for the back two, just in case. For my money there isn't a better toss back bait than a big tube. If my clients are very experienced anglers, I just make suggestions on what to throw, some times they agree and sometimes they don't. I'm not going to twist their arm, but I'm usually right and they catch on eventually. smile

New people that haven't fished Muskies to much usually don't want anything to do with gliders or jerkbaits, or anything to heavy. I also don't want to wear them out in two hours so they usually get something they can just cast and reel to start out. Once they get the hang of it and gain more confidence in their casting ability I'll encourage them to try something else like a jerkbait, if they say no I just say "maybe later" and let it go at that. You really can't go wrong with a bucktail on Vermilion, it's always a good choice. You can let them try some different colors and styles to keep them interested and just keep reminding them that at any time there could be a 40lb fish following their bait. smile

"Ace"

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Thanks Ace. Very informative and confirmed some of the thoughts I had regarding color.

53orbigger

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i have a ? regarding the walleye on the east end what type of walleyes do you usually go after. Do you try to finness then or try to get a reaction bite. u also said that you like the white now do you often like to troll white for walleyes. What types of crank baits best work on the V

thanks

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THIS IS THE BEST LAKE I'VE EVER BEEN ON!!

Yes the best, i've never been on a lake where I could just cruise the boat all day and just feel so free and at peace dude. I'm going to live up there one of these days.

My buddy's and I will be lodging at Pehrsons late May. Last year we were able to really put the pounding on some 12-14" perches, some nice size pikes, but could only catch some small size walleyes on the shore right after dark.

Well here's my question for you...Is there a good 11:00 pm - 3:00 am walleye bite?

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luvin2fish- Most people will tell you that Vermilion doesn't have the greatest night bite. I have fished throughout all hours of the night and have rarely done well. With the size, structure, and color of the water, you rarely need to fish late into the night. I have done well are dusk and dawn though, so I would focus on those 2 times more than any. I have found the fish come into shallows in the evening at dusk, but seem to then disappear for hours at a time. Say it gets dark at 9pm. There is typically a good bite from 8-10ish. I then usually see it slow down for a couple of hours, and then things will pick up a time or two throughout the night for short 30 minute windows. There is another peak around dawn and the first hour or two of sunlight.

I'm sure others have done better in the evenings and fished it harder than I have, but rarely have I ever had to in the first place, especially around the time of the year you are refering to. Then we just toss out a couple of lighted slip bobbers from the dock to keep us entertained. I'm sure others have done more night trolling and slip bobbers on reefs, and I am sure there are people that do so successfully.

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Yea JP, that is pretty typical of Vermilion. Not much of a night bite most of the season. You may catch a few here and there or even get into a big fish, but it just isn't worth the bother most of the time. Believe me, I really gave it a shot the first few years I fished here and a few times since then. Now I'd troll for them if I were to do it again. That early morning bite is overlooked by many and the evening bite is the one that most of the locals fish. In the spring when the Walleyes are bitting off the docks you'll see a lot of people fishing after dark but once that dock bite stops you will rarely see anyone out Walleye fishing in the dark, except for an occasional tourist.

"Ace"

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thanks for the advice jp and guideman. I'll be that buzzing,lonely, tourist fishing till midnight telling myself...."any minute now"

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Hey Tex,

You are very welcome! Maybe we'll run in to each other out there chasing Muskies.

"Ace"

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Ace, I just want to say that "you" are an exceptional guide. You are giving out tons of information which it has taken you many hard days and good days on the water to achieve. Everyone on this forum should stand up and clap. This has all been good stuff to everyone...and should be noted that the lessons here are all stuff that ace teaches in the boat day in and day out, as "good guides" do. And also, I may ad, it is how he makes his living! I have prefished and done many tourney's on vermillion, but, I think that I will book a trip with ace just to learn a little more as we all can do, on any lake! Thanks for all the info ace, I hope that people realize that what you say on here can be transfered to the water in "your boat" and you have a plentiful summer!!!! Sincerely! thanks again:)

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Hey Big,

Thank you for all the kind words. The key to Vermilion is typically just doing the little things right. To many anglers are hung up on "spots" and never learn the right way to fish the fish. Have a great season!

"Ace"

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Recently i had some one tell me a story that i dont believe is possible.

He said he snagged but was unable to land over a 6 foot sturgeon on Vermilion.....is there even smallest chance that there are sturgeon in vermilion? is so, how and why?

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