Joe Mauer and his home run

[PierBridge]

Quote:

Could you please predict the performance of all of the Twins players next year?

I'll predict Joe Mauer continues to be one of the 2 "pujols" best players in MLB and his presence on the Twin's gives them a 100 percent better chance to a World Series title than your idea that we are better off not having him and his contract.

[Cicada]

Since this is getting to be a pick on Big Dave thread, I'll throw in two cents.

Seems like you argue the irrelevance of a point with an irrelevant point.

"Nice try but McCann is only making 5.7 mil this year and won,t make what Maur made this year for 3 more years. Joe will be making 23 mil next year, hard to compare those 2 players."

I think the point is the difference in pay is directly related to the performance.

"I'm glad you brought up Pujols. He has done twice as much offensively than Mauer and is a 3 time MVP and finished 2nd three times as well and he is only making 14 mil this year??????????"

How can you compare a contract that was made in 2004 to one made in 2010? In the unreal world of baseball inflation, that 2004 contract will look like peanuts to a lot of contracts.

"Thats exactly why you don't pay ANY catcher 23 mil/year"

Being an old catcher myself, I might be just a tab biased, but catchers value goes a lot deeper than just games played. We are the smartest players on the team (again, my slightly biased opinion) whether on the field or in the dugout. We are the only player where every play is in front of them and they direct the defense all the time.

"You can't control injuries and Mauer may go through a stretch on injuries someday as well."

Hey, good point! He already has been dinged up, comes with the position. That's why catchers will never end up challenging Cal Ripkin Jr's record.

Look at it this way. Maybe his contract, or should I say value, might be more directly related to how many tushes he puts in the seats. The good thing for the Twins is that they have had a recent history of having good backup catching so we don't have to abuse our starter. Sal Butera may sort of prove that defense is the most important part of the position. I better quit running off at the mouth, you may have already found a arguable point.

[PierBridge]

Morneau's looking at 20 million per type numbers for sure.

[PierBridge]

Bingo Cicada!

[thatoneguy]

One last thing, then I'll stop pummeling poor Dave.

Compare Pujols' production to the other top FIRST BASEMEN, and compare Mauer's production to the other top CATCHERS. Different things are expected from different positions.

It is exceedingly rare to find a catcher who is good defensively and a star offensively - there have only been a handful in my lifetime. 1B who can rake are much, much easier to find: Pujols, Morneau, Adrian Gonzalez, Texeira, Cabrera, Konerko, Morales (pre celebration injury), Votto, Youkilis, Howard, Huff, Fielder and Dunn - just off the top of my head. I'm sure I'm missing a couple. If you don't have one of the top two, you can get excellent production from any of the next dozen.

Catchers who are defensive stars, handle a staff well, and are elite hitters? You've got two: Mauer and McCann, and Mauer is light years ahead of McCann both offensively and defensively. If you don't have one of the top two, your production takes a massive hit.

The law of supply and demand applies to baseball just like it does most anything else in life: you pay for scarcity and you pay for quality. When you get both in the same package, you pay extra - and it's usually worth it, like it has been for the Twins.

[thatoneguy]

@ Pier

I would be stunned if Morneau gets anywhere near 20 mil. His production has been terrific, but he has had major injury trouble two years in a row, and he plays a position where it's easy to find good production. I see him getting 13-14 mil, plus incentives that could add another 3-4.

I hope he gets (and stays) healthy...the Twins need him to make a deep playoff run!

[Big Dave2]

One last thing, then I'll stop pummeling poor Dave.

Compare Pujols' production to the other top FIRST BASEMEN, and compare Mauer's production to the other top CATCHERS. Different things are expected from different positions.

I'd rather look at who helps the team more. When Morneau is healthy it's not even close.

It is exceedingly rare to find a catcher who is good defensively and a star offensively - there have only been a handful in my lifetime. 1B who can rake are much, much easier to find: Pujols, Morneau, Adrian Gonzalez, Texeira, Cabrera, Konerko, Morales (pre celebration injury), Votto, Youkilis, Howard, Huff, Fielder and Dunn - just off the top of my head. I'm sure I'm missing a couple. If you don't have one of the top two, you can get excellent production from any of the next dozen.

Again I ask, if all star 1st basemen are so easy to find, how come the Twins have only had 2 in the last 4 decades?

Catchers who are defensive stars, handle a staff well, and are elite hitters? You've got two: Mauer and McCann, and Mauer is light years ahead of McCann both offensively and defensively. If you don't have one of the top two, your production takes a massive hit.

The Twins had one of the best offensive catchers in the league at a fraction of Mauers salary when they let Pierzinsky go.

The law of supply and demand applies to baseball just like it does most anything else in life: you pay for scarcity and you pay for quality. When you get both in the same package, you pay extra - and it's usually worth it, like it has been for the Twins.

Get back to me when Joe Mauer wins something meaningfull. The Twins went farther in the playoffs pre-Mauer than Post Mauer.

[jwmiller33]

Dave you can't seriously be comparing Mauer to AJ, are you?

[PierBridge]

@ Pier

I would be stunned if Morneau gets anywhere near 20 mil. His production has been terrific, but he has had major injury trouble two years in a row, and he plays a position where it's easy to find good production. I see him getting 13-14 mil, plus incentives that could add another 3-4.

I hope he gets (and stays) healthy...the Twins need him to make a deep playoff run!

I hope you're right and we can get him for 13-ish. 20 million may be bit high now that I think about it.

On the open market he is going to have a lot of interest though!

[thatoneguy]

Quote:

The Twins had one of the best offensive catchers in the league at a fraction of Mauers salary when they let Pierzinsky go.

That confirms it: Dave is just trolling. He can't expect anyone to take him seriously after that gem. The only thing AJ EVER led the league in? Grounding into double plays, in 2004.

Yeah. AJ had a couple of nice seasons. He was an abomination defensively, and was light years behind Mauer offensively.

Worst. Comparison. Ever.

[jwmiller33]

Worst. Comparison. Ever.

couldnt have said it better myself

[jwmiller33]

Dave please show some stats at how you came to the conclusion AJ was "one of the best catchers in the league" when he was with the Twins.... and please put these numbers side by side with Mauer's numbers, and lets have a looksy...

[Big Dave2]

A.J. was a career .300 hitter for the Twins. You guys have all said yourself that you don't normally get that kind of production out of a catcher.

A.J. hit .312 his last year with the Twins. He had 77 RBI and 11 HRs. Those numbers aren't much different than Mauer's numbers this year and A.J did it for $365,000 compared to Mauers 12 million he is making this year. I would call that some serious bang for the buck.

[Big Dave2]

I hope you're right and we can get him for 13-ish. 20 million may be bit high now that I think about it.

On the open market he is going to have a lot of interest though!

Morneau is already going to make 15 mil this year. Assuming he doesn't go completely down the tubes in the next 3 years, why would he sign for less money than he currently makes?

Mark Teixeira signed a Mauer like 8 yr 180 mil per year contract 2 years ago that makes him 20 mil per year. Why would Morneau be worth any less than that? Teixeira has had injury problems as well. In fact 4 of the 5 years directly preceding his Yankees contract he only played in 78, 54, 103 and 54 games.

[Big Dave2]

http://www.amateurgm.com/top-9-catchers-of-the-decade

Dave please show some stats at how you came to the conclusion AJ was "one of the best catchers in the league" when he was with the Twins.... and please put these numbers side by side with Mauer's numbers, and lets have a looksy...

[Born2Fish]

AJ: His career started to produce success AFTER becoming a member of the Chicago White Sox in 2005....

Mauer: The sweet swinging Mauer is considered the cornerstone of the Twins and has the potential to be one of the best catchers in history by the time his career is through.

[Big Dave2]

AJ: His career started to produce success AFTER becoming a member of the Chicago White Sox in 2005....

You better check his stats because he hit better as a Twin than as a White Sox.

[harvey lee]

Who is hotter than Joe right now?

[CodyDawg]

Dogpile on Dave! Man, it is easy to do too.

I will just answer one question....why have the twins had 2 (your number) of great first baseman in the last 20-30 years or whatever you said? Well, I would assume the two you are talking about are Harmon and Morneau? I would put Hrbie in that group as well. So, if you look at those years, we pretty much had an all star caliber first baseman the ENTIRE time. A little gap between Harmon and Hrbie, about a 8 year?? gap between Hrbie and Morny, with some serviceable years from Mientkevicz (sp?). So most of the time, we have had a great 1B. I dont get your point. In fact, it proves the point that 1B are relatively easy to come by. Lets talk about all of the standout catchers during that time. Zip, Zero, Nada. Okay, now that we are done talking about ALL of the great catchers pre-Mauer.....

[mrklean]

were in the playoff race right now 5 games up why are we complaining? The fact is to win we need to spend money. Ok lets not sign mauer to the large deal, lose some fans which in turn loses money for the team, and let him sign with the yanks and fall even further behind them then everyone already is.

[mrklean]

on another not how many Pierzynski jerseys did you see people wearing back when he was with us compared to maur jerseys? its not just about how well they play its a business its also about how much money they can make off of advertising as well. I dont remember any aj pierzynski lets dye our hair blonde and look like a dummy nights but we do have those joe maur sideburn nights.

[Born2Fish]

Dave, those 2 tidbits I threw out there were from the website you had linked(the 9 best catchers of the past decade), so not my opinion there. THEY said on that site that he did better AFTER becoming a White Sux catcher.

[Big Dave2]

Dogpile on Dave! Man, it is easy to do too.

I will just answer one question....why have the twins had 2 (your number) of great first baseman in the last 20-30 years or whatever you said? Well, I would assume the two you are talking about are Harmon and Morneau? I would put Hrbie in that group as well. So, if you look at those years, we pretty much had an all star caliber first baseman the ENTIRE time. A little gap between Harmon and Hrbie, about a 8 year?? gap between Hrbie and Morny, with some serviceable years from Mientkevicz (sp?). So most of the time, we have had a great 1B. I dont get your point. In fact, it proves the point that 1B are relatively easy to come by. Lets talk about all of the standout catchers during that time. Zip, Zero, Nada. Okay, now that we are done talking about ALL of the great catchers pre-Mauer.....

No, I was only talking about Hrbeck and Morneau. Hrbeck played from '81 till '94 and Morneau did play a full year at 1st base until 2005. Thats 2 star 1st basemen in 40 years.

10 years is an awful long time to go without a star 1st baseman if they are so easy to find.

[Big Dave2]

Dave, those 2 tidbits I threw out there were from the website you had linked(the 9 best catchers of the past decade), so not my opinion there. THEY said on that site that he did better AFTER becoming a White Sux catcher.

His home run production went up but his batting ave. has gone down slightly. It still goes to show that you could have still had one of the best hitting catchers in the game for a fraction of what they will pay Mauer.

[Big Dave2]

on another not how many Pierzynski jerseys did you see people wearing back when he was with us compared to maur jerseys? its not just about how well they play its a business its also about how much money they can make off of advertising as well. I dont remember any aj pierzynski lets dye our hair blonde and look like a dummy nights but we do have those joe maur sideburn nights.

Thats my whole point!!!

The reason Mauer is here is because he is a marketing gimmick for the team. It's not the fact that him and his 23 mil salary will give the Twins the best chance to win a world series, it's that the fans of this state would not have wanted to see him leave because he is "from here". There is NO WAY the Twins would have made this contract to Mauer if he were from Mobile Alabama. They would have done the same thing they did with Yohan Santana and Torii Hunter. Hunter was one of the best outfielders in the league and Santana was a dominating pitcher, again one of the very best. Why didn't the Twins give those guys lucrative contracts?

[DTro]

Gimmick..... LOL

[B. Amish]

I dont remember any aj pierzynski lets dye our hair blonde and look like a dummy nights ...

hilarious... thanks for the laugh.

also, aj can't and never has put a team on his back offensively and carry them for a month at a time. mauer does it yearly.

BigDave, please apply for the GM position of the sox or tigers.

[SledNeck]

No, I was only talking about Hrbeck and Morneau. Hrbeck played from '81 till '94 and Morneau did play a full year at 1st base until 2005. Thats 2 star 1st basemen in 40 years.

10 years is an awful long time to go without a star 1st baseman if they are so easy to find.

Hrbek

[mrklean]

haha i wasnt calling him a gimmick dave i was just adding that was a plus, hunter hasnt done that great since he left im happy with what we have out there, the santana thing i think blew up in our face we didnt get enough and what we got we all know what we got

[Big Dave2]

also, aj can't and never has put a team on his back offensively and carry them for a month at a time. mauer does it yearly.

A.J. Put the Team on his back and carried them past the 1st round of the playoffs, does that count?