Why is Punto in the Majors still?

[Big Dave2]

of course Punto has a better average then those other guys you mentioned, he's only been to the plate 54 times with 14 hits (pretty pathetic in my mind). Only thing Punto is good for is his defense and that is it. I think the guy is junk too but there are many many players in Baseball who are known for their defense 1st and the bat 2nd. And yes I would take Hardy and Harris before Punto in the line-up.

Harris has only 12 hits in 53 at bats for a .226 average and 4 RBI. Why would you take him over Punto?

What does the number of at bats have to do with batting average? It's an average. Butera only has 17 at bats, why is his average only .118? Kubel has 91 at bats yet only has an average of .209. Average has nothing to do with number of at bats.

[PierBridge]

They hate him personally IMO Dave and it wouldn't matter if he hit over .280 like he has in 2 of the last 4 seasons Or even if he hit .444 and had OBP of .583 in the PLAYOFFS...OH wait he did hit .444 and did have an OBP of .583 in the Playoffs last year...LOL!

Mr hustle Nick Punto!...

[mr_jman]

I'd take Punto simply because there are 2 sides to the game Offense and Defense. We can all sit on here and argue about Punto's offense but I haven't read one post saying Punto is a bad player defensively! Defense is half of the game and he is one of the better defensive players in the league (not only at 3rd base).

Yes, his offense is not going to blow anyone away and we can beat that to death, but overall I'd take Punto over Harris for his game as a whole, and I do like Harris as well! Offensively its hard not to give Harris the edge over Punto in power which makes him a fair option as a pinch hitter for Punto. Harris is a capable back-up (If Thome, Kubel, Young, etc are playing or unavailable) that will make the plays he should, but Punto is going to make plays the others wouldn't.

[Big Dave2]

heard he did another one of his head first slides into 1b on thursday. have to give the guy credit for being a hard worker but don't get why he continues to do that and why gardy doesn't tell him to knock that [PoorWordUsage] off before he hurts himself. that could be a pretty ugly injury if he were to have a head first collision with a first baseman. besides that he's got to realize that he's not getting to the bag faster that way doesn't he? does anybody else in mlb do that?

Diving into 1st base

Published February 28, 2009 Twins

Minnesota Twins shortstop Nick Punto takes a lot of guff for diving into 1st base on a close play. Many people say it slows him down, but he thinks it gets him there faster. I believe he is right, even though I still question the wisdom of taking that much risk just for first base.

I’ll start with a couple of points. First, Punto is not sliding headfirst into first, as I think most people believe. He is aiming his dive to touch the bag with his hand at or before the point when his body lands. Second, although I’m not taking it to the tenth decimal place, I believe my math is correct. If anyone disagrees with my math, I’d love to hear your reasoning.

A baseball player getting from home to first in 4 seconds (a very fast time) will average 15 mph. This includes the time it takes him to get started. So lets say he is moving at 20 mph when he arrives at 1st. That equates to 22 feet per second.

Measuring Nick’s speed, we use his center of gravity, which would be approximately at his navel, between the navel and spine. If we measure his speed this way, the runner’s center of gravity is nearly directly above the feet, and crosses the bag within microsends of the foot that steps on the base.

As noted above, when Punto dives, he aims to have his hand hit the bag when or before his body hits the ground. This is an important point, because it means there will be no drag from ground friction delaying his trip to 1st base. Diving actually increases his effective speed. Changing his body into a dive does not change the speed of his center of gravity appreciably. But doing so moves his hands more than 3 feet ahead of the center of gravity. This effectively adds 2.0 mph over the last second of travel. Therefore, he gets there a split-second quicker. That split-second can make the difference in a close play at first.

Should he do this? According to Jim Souhan in the Minneapolis Star Tribune (2/25/2009), Punto’s arms “bear the telltale scars of abuse.” Souhan quotes Punto saying “I started when I was 8 years old.” Maybe when he’s 38, he’ll wake up to the insanity of it – but in the meantime, we know he’s willing to risk scars and nerve damage to get there quicker, and earned a couple of base hits because of it.

[PierBridge]

There's no doubt he gets there faster! He's one of the few that actually do.

But the problem is the chance of injury is greatly enhanced and the umpires have a tough time with that play as they don't see it very often at first base so on occasion he'll be called out when he actually gets there.

I'm against it for those reasons but he ain't gonna change and thats fine by me.

[hcmpls1]

Originally Posted By: harvey lee

The dude has a great glove and pretty good speed. Problem is, no bat at all. Just another 180 hitter and we have enough of them.

He's doing pretty well then for a .180 hitter considering he is batting .259 and that is pretty close to his career average also.

Punto also has a better BA than Hardy, Thome and Kubel so far this year. Should the Twins get rid of those guys too? Brendan Harris is batting .226 should he be the regular 3rd baseman? If not then who do you folks recomend to play 3rd base for the Twins?

Um, you need to take in account OBP... Punto is dead LAST with anyone over 50 AB. Not good... Thome is 3rd on the team in OBP w/ .395, Kubel is 6th on the team in OBP with .333 (so is Harris) and Hardy is holding the bottom down with Punto. Hardy, however, even though he has a crappy OBP, has had a few clutch hits this season. Punto... not really.

And who do I recommend play third? Ramos.

[Juneau4]

The question was: (Why is Punto in the Majors still) The answer is simple even for the complicated. He is one of the best if not the best for what his role is on a Major League Ball Club....

[PierBridge]

The question was: (Why is Punto in the Majors still) The answer is simple even for the complicated. He is one of the best if not the best for what his role is on a Major League Ball Club....

That's the perfect answer! Nice!

Ramos? LMAO!

[Cicada]

Ramos at third base. Never, but close. His value is in the fact that he is a much better than average catcher. He will go back to the minors and, hopefully, hone those skills to a higher level. Then he might become trade bait for a third baseman, only if, there is a third baseman that is of equal value in terms of ability and readiness to play at the major league level.

[First Ice-Mike]

Whoever mentioned Ramos as an option at 3rd base is obviously not a great baseball mind.

FI

[InTheNorthwoods]

The question was: (Why is Punto in the Majors still) The answer is simple even for the complicated. He is one of the best if not the best for what his role is on a Major League Ball Club....

YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!

Punto is the Twins' starting 3rd basemen, and that is a problem. He is no where near the best 3rd basemen in the league, nor is he anywhere near the top half of 3rd basemen.

If Punto was a utility infielder, played sparingly by spelling the regular starters and as a defensive substitution, and made 1 million a year instead of 4 million, I could see where you are coming from. Punto's defense is generally good... but his offense is atrocious. It is not hard to find someone who can adequately field the 3rd base position in the majors, but a 3rd basemen should provide your team with some offensive spark and not just be a waste of a slot in the batting order.

[hcmpls1]

I forget. What position did Morneau play before 1st base?

[bobbymalone]

IMHO the Twins should dump all players that don't bat over 300, have less than 25 HR a year, and that have ever made a fielding error. Then I wouldn't have to come online and complain about the twins having a bunch of average players on the team.

[greebs]

Originally Posted By: greebs

heard he did another one of his head first slides into 1b on thursday. have to give the guy credit for being a hard worker but don't get why he continues to do that and why gardy doesn't tell him to knock that [PoorWordUsage] off before he hurts himself. that could be a pretty ugly injury if he were to have a head first collision with a first baseman. besides that he's got to realize that he's not getting to the bag faster that way doesn't he? does anybody else in mlb do that?

Diving into 1st base

Published February 28, 2009 Twins

Minnesota Twins shortstop Nick Punto takes a lot of guff for diving into 1st base on a close play. Many people say it slows him down, but he thinks it gets him there faster. I believe he is right, even though I still question the wisdom of taking that much risk just for first base.

I’ll start with a couple of points. First, Punto is not sliding headfirst into first, as I think most people believe. He is aiming his dive to touch the bag with his hand at or before the point when his body lands. Second, although I’m not taking it to the tenth decimal place, I believe my math is correct. If anyone disagrees with my math, I’d love to hear your reasoning.

A baseball player getting from home to first in 4 seconds (a very fast time) will average 15 mph. This includes the time it takes him to get started. So lets say he is moving at 20 mph when he arrives at 1st. That equates to 22 feet per second.

Measuring Nick’s speed, we use his center of gravity, which would be approximately at his navel, between the navel and spine. If we measure his speed this way, the runner’s center of gravity is nearly directly above the feet, and crosses the bag within microsends of the foot that steps on the base.

As noted above, when Punto dives, he aims to have his hand hit the bag when or before his body hits the ground. This is an important point, because it means there will be no drag from ground friction delaying his trip to 1st base. Diving actually increases his effective speed. Changing his body into a dive does not change the speed of his center of gravity appreciably. But doing so moves his hands more than 3 feet ahead of the center of gravity. This effectively adds 2.0 mph over the last second of travel. Therefore, he gets there a split-second quicker. That split-second can make the difference in a close play at first.

Should he do this? According to Jim Souhan in the Minneapolis Star Tribune (2/25/2009), Punto’s arms “bear the telltale scars of abuse.” Souhan quotes Punto saying “I started when I was 8 years old.” Maybe when he’s 38, he’ll wake up to the insanity of it – but in the meantime, we know he’s willing to risk scars and nerve damage to get there quicker, and earned a couple of base hits because of it.

what's your source for this story? it doesn't sound like it's coming from a scientist or physicist. if it's from a blogger or sportswriter, then it's simply an opinion and if you ask people for their opinion, I know from seeing other forums and talking with other people that watch the game that the majority do not believe the head first dives into first get him there any quicker than if he'd simply run through the bag like other players do.

[PierBridge]

All you have to do is watch him to know he gets there quicker. No scientist needed at all.

That's why he does it because he knows he gets to fist quicker than running through with his short choppy stride and those tiny legs of his.

Not for everybody and most don't get to 1st quicker. Throw in all the variables mentioned above and it's nothing you would ever teach or want your players doing.

On a Side note..276 and zero Error's this year...

[mr_jman]

Chances are we are arguing over fractions of a second one way or another. Yes this may make a difference, but the umpire still has to determine whether the ball came first or Punto touches the base first. This can also happen in tiny fractions of a second. Diving may work for Punto and if he feels faster than why not. I don't get any more or less hurt seeing him dive into the first so it doesn't bother me any! Yes, young kids who look up to these guys and want to dive into first is a problem. You are taught from little league on to run through first and NOT DIVE and I don't think many parents or coaches would teach this method to any player.

For those of you ridiculing Punto for diving into first, look at it this way. If he dives into first and gets hurt than PUNTO WILL BE OUT OF THE LINE-UP which is what you wanted anyways! Isn't it? Like I said, my body hurts no more or less when he dives into first so go ahead and dive Punto!

[Juneau4]

Maybe Punto is playing so no one starts a post to fire Gardy. That should and probably will happen when the Twins lose 3 maybe 4 in a row.

[zamboni]

Rant and rave all you want, he is here and isn't going anywhere.

[Big Dave2]

I still havn't heard anyone (except for the Ramos comment) give an option for who should be playing third base if not Punto.

[SledNeck]

Ugly last at bat for punto against jenks. I almost Threw up

[bobbymalone]

Ugly last at bat for punto against jenks. I almost Threw up

There was a lot of ugly last night.

[CodyDawg]

What that article failed to mention is that his foot is also about 3 feet ahead of his naval when it touches the bag. However, i am not advocating either way. I have yet to see even once when it has been close and he was called safe, but i have prolly missed quite a few of them.

Yep, i get the feeling we are kind of scuffling lately. not hitting on all 8. Cuddy has been brutal lately too. It is a long season. A marathon, not a sprint.

[greebs]

I still havn't heard anyone (except for the Ramos comment) give an option for who should be playing third base if not Punto.

if our choices are limited to players on the team, I don't have a problem with him playing there as a platoon with harris. they both have their strong and weak points but can handle that position fine. the team upgraded at 2b and ss so nothing wrong with these guys movingo over to 3b. now if you open it up to the whole league then I'm going to change my answer and there's a pretty large list

by the way I still haven't heard who your source was for the story about the head first slides to 1b being beneficial

[Dotch]

Agreed. The increased potential of a career ending wrist injury by sliding headfirst into first would not appear to be a wise investment of time, whether you beat the throw or not.

I've got a feeling when the weather warms up (for good) so the ball will clear the fence in center field rather than be a long fly ball out, guys like Slowey quit throwing the ball down the middle of the plate like he did last night in critical situations and people get healthy again, things will take care of themselves. A lot of season to go yet.

[Big Dave2]

Originally Posted By: Big Dave2

I still havn't heard anyone (except for the Ramos comment) give an option for who should be playing third base if not Punto.

if our choices are limited to players on the team, I don't have a problem with him playing there as a platoon with harris. they both have their strong and weak points but can handle that position fine. the team upgraded at 2b and ss so nothing wrong with these guys movingo over to 3b. now if you open it up to the whole league then I'm going to change my answer and there's a pretty large list

by the way I still haven't heard who your source was for the story about the head first slides to 1b being beneficial

It doesn't matter where the article came from, it is just an opinion either way.

Let's see your long list.

[greebs]

longoria

arod

beltre

young

callaspo

mcgehee

freese

reynolds

cantu

zimmerman

rolen

polanco

headley

jones

figgins

those are some that I came up with just scanning the leaderboards and I'm only providing these since you asked.

now before someone chimes in and tells me to deal with it because he's our 3b, it's not necessary. If you read my posts you'll see that there are much bigger critics than me but as I stated before, if people start giving the guy more credit than he deserves (for example comparing him to hall of famers), I will throw out the bee ess flag on that.

[DonBo]

You think we could actually get any of those guys? And even if they were available, you think we could get them for less $$$ than Punto's getting?

Good luck with that. Sure would be nice to "scan the leaderboards" to choose who's gonna be on your team. There's a name for clubs that can do that, Yankees.

[Big Dave2]

longoria

arod

beltre

young

callaspo

mcgehee

freese

reynolds

cantu

zimmerman

rolen

polanco

headley

jones

figgins

those are some that I came up with just scanning the leaderboards and I'm only providing these since you asked.

now before someone chimes in and tells me to deal with it because he's our 3b, it's not necessary. If you read my posts you'll see that there are much bigger critics than me but as I stated before, if people start giving the guy more credit than he deserves (for example comparing him to hall of famers), I will throw out the bee ess flag on that.

The question wasn't which 3rd basemen in the league are better than Punto, the question is, who would you rather have play the position. In order for a guy to play 3rd base for the Twins he has to be AVAILABLE. Which of these guys on your list are available or were available before the season started?

You could make that list for every position on the Twins teams except maybe catcher.

[Big Dave2]

No one here has said that Punto is the best 3rd baseman in the league, we are saying that he is the best AVAILABLE 3rd baseman the Twins have.

[SledNeck]

Id rather have Hughes at 3rd base to be honest. He has like more homers in his first at bat than punto has had in like 5 years