Pup killed by conibear trap....

[T&KK]

Hey everyone,

Looking for a bit of input on regs on this one:

Situation: My mom was walking our dogs on her typical loop around our property. One of the dogs (3 month old choc. lab)was sold and being trained for a year before going to the owner and to the day was worth around 1200 (orig sale, food, training, and shots, etc). It went into the dich between our property and the road and got its neck snapped in a conibear. The trap was legal size and properly staked with identification. He had all of his traps in ditches because he is to lazy to get out of his truck to check traps. Didn't want to do it the real way.

My question:

Is there any liability to the owner of the trap for damages when catching/killing something that wasn't of his intention. They way I look at it if ac child stepped in that trap since he didn't notify anyone in the area that he set it there, he would lose some dough in court. Mind you, it was probably 200 yards from my parents front yard. They are pretty torn up from this and so are the owners of the the pup.

This is the third time in as many years that one of our dogs (my lab last year) got pinched in a conibear but the first one with serious injury or death. just very sore paws.

any input is greatly appreciated.

By the way, this is not an attack on trapping in any way, just informing and questioning of what can be done and a bit of a lesson for people who trap this way. I used to trap, and never did I ever not tell people where the traps were and they were always deep in our property where kids and pets would absolutely not be.

Thanks much for the input in advance!

[DonBo]

That's really too bad about the pup. I don't know what the regs or liabilities are for trapping, but when my Dad puts traps anywhere near civilization where something like this could occur he always puts up a few signs in obvios places warning of the nearby traps. Maybe it would be wise for other people to do the same.

[wasssit]

YES, please put up a few signs, so, guys like me can avoid them. Mans best friend gets killed, poor pup.

[Tinkhamtown]

Stopped grouse hunting last week and came home. After two trappers warned me about conibear traps in the area I was hunting.

Tink

[walleyes12]

Ah, thats my WORSE fear as a trapper. To be honest I run alot of conibears in ditches on coon trails, its not because I am lazy its because its a very effective way to catch raccoons. On the same note, you as a trapper have to aware of your surroundings. Watch for houses, Watch for dog tracks along side roads, and also watch for human tracks on the roads. I like to talk with homeowners in the area a week or two before I trap.

If The trapper was 100% legal, he does not have an obligation to pay for any damages. He has every right to trap road ditches sinces its public property. You and your dog also have every right to walk in the ditches as long as the dog is in control by the owner. Its just an ugly situation

I dont want to blame either party, without seeing the situation, Its just a sad deal. Like others have stated, it would be nice to mark your traps so others know, but on the same hand, you will get people that cant keep their hands off other peoples property and steal their traps. I agree trappers need to take control and be aware of their traps and were they are setting them.

Homeowners that walk their dogs on public roadways need to be aware that trapping starts around the 24th of October. They need to pay extra attention to road ditches, and maybe keep your dog on a leash when walking or keep the dog by your side. Coon trapping only last a few weeks in MN usually do to fast freeze ups.

As a trapper I really feel for your family and pup, unfortunally instances like this gives all trappers a bad name, and the public is really starting to look down on trappers.

[MN Shutterbug]

It's a real shame, but sadly there are no laws against stupidity or laziness.

[jparrucci]

Illegal or poorly concieved traps has been an ongoing issue in this state, and the DNR needs to finally start requiring some training for trappers and stricter laws on placement. My friends dad had a dog killed by a trap in SW MN while pheasant hunting. Ground trap in the middle of a WMA right where people pheasant hunting with dogs would likely be. I am 100% for only allow water sets on WMA and WPA property. I myself have come across a few sets that were not marked, liscened, and in very, very likely spots for dogs to get killed, all on public land. If trappers don't start to come together and get some common sense, people like me are going to back the PETA types and say ban trapping altogether, because even an outdoorsman like me is geting fed up with the stupidity. If my dog is killed or injured by a trap this is either illegal or in a bad spot, I can promise you that I will be actively working to ban ALL trapping. It is one thing if this was a rare rare occurance, but I've witnessed it too many times. This subject came up a few years ago, and the responses from the trappers basically were don't hunt public land. I hate to break it to the trappers out there, but the bird hunters outnumber you by a large margin. I don't want to see trapping banned, but if this continues, I am going to have to take that stance.

[walleyes12]

Jparrucci- I understand your anger, NO trapper should trap WMA areas.

Your statement that upland bird hunters out number trappers is correct, but a Ridiculous statment. Thats like me stating trapping is the oldest proffession is history, I am sure you had a trapper in your family at some point in history. US trappers are killing predators that are harming all bird numbers. Lets face it without trappers bird numbers will be lower for all you upland hunters.

Also, the DNR is requiring a trapping class for anyone born after 1987, so before jumping off the deep end, please read up. If you consider yourself and "outdoorsman", please dont claim to support PETA or your going to support PETA. There are other means to support the ban of trapping if thats how you feel.

I do agree, trappers need to pay more attention, but dont lable a bad situation you have encountered and blame it on all trappers. Some of us are doing good.

[jparrucci]

I myself have trapped, so I am not unaware of the current regulations. If this were just a few of the bad apples, I would understand. But I have witnessed this in far too many areas by numerous trappers for this to be an issolated incident. I would guess that 90% of the trappers out there were born before 1987, so that has little effect on the current group of trappers, and I was aware of that regulation. I want you guys to be able to trap, and I at some point would like to get into it again. But there needs to be some serious changes, and this needs to come soon. I am well aware of the trappers impact on predators, and the benifits us upland guys get. I'd rather hunt with half the birds there are now though knowing my dog isn't in danger. This is not a small problem or a rare instant. A large percentage of trappers are setting traps in very very bad spots. It needs to end, and end now. I had a close enough of a call too many times already. When a weekend warrior hunter like me has seen traps in bad spots going on over a dozen times, it is a serious, serious problem.

Much like the baiting problem with deer hunting, this is something that had to be done within the trapper "community". Unless some of you are willing to educate and teach others, or start calling other trappers out, this problem wont go away. Another issue with this is, sometimes this is done legally, regardless how stupid, it is not illegal for some of these traps to be set where they are. Time for some common sense laws on trap placements. Water set on a wma near a muskrat hut, thumbs up. Large conibear trap right where a dog is likely to be, thumbs down.

I am not alone in this thinking. I have a number of friends and relatives who are sick of seeing this too. It is time for somebody to step up to the plate on this from the trapping community. If this cannot be policed from within, people like me are going to start calling for some changes that will really not be liked.

[BucksnDucks]

Wow guys sad sad situation. First off my sympathy for the family of the pup. But I would like to take this time and point out a few things I noticed about your comment and state my opinion. 1st off I have a long history of trappers in my family so maybe im biased towards my views, you can decide if you so please. WMA WPA are all public areas, so telln 1 group of outdoorsmen that there tax dollars dont allow them to use this public land jus as much as you bird hunters, watchers how ever you recreate type of ppl is obsurd! You know what guys chit happens, ive been on both side of the fence, and realize it that dogs do find there ways to a legally set trap. Its the way it us, unless you have total control over your dog, its gunna happen sumday or the other. Many many many dogs have been caught in traps and safely released. Not the type of job for the faint of heart or weak minded souls out there, if you've ever done it you know how much of a pain a full grown dog can be to get outta a leg hold. Conibers are a different story. If they can get there little head in there, 9 outta 10 its gunna be a bad day. Of all the trappers I speak with, they are very smart and knowledgeable ppl of the outdoors. No trapper ever puts a set where theres a great chance of catching a un-wanted critter, its not rocket science there boys. About the marking your traps part, in all honesty how many ppl would be drawn like a moth to a flame if they seen a giant orange stick in the middle of a section???? I know I would be! Along with that comes the thieves. Do you mark your deer stands on public lands with signs stating where there all located??? If you do, it prolly isnt there anymore!!! Join peta, go for it, i for one will be standing rite there to fight you to the end! Again I am very sorry for the lose of the pup.

[T&KK]

I have trapped and am in favor of trapping but the main difference between the bird, deer, whatever you want to hunt hunters and trapping is that there is a safety and a finger on the trigger with the hunters and no holds bar on the trap. Like i said, i don't disagree with trapping, but there needs to be regulation on public land. Where and where not to trap needs to be defined. I don't care if they have a batman symbol above them or not, just as long as they are in a secure area away from the mainly populated areas that hunters and dogs go. If you need to have a trap in an area like that, become friends with farmer that hates the varmits. He will happily let you thin the herd and you then won't have to worry about not knowing who will be there.

[jparrucci]

Again, I go back to the problem of the trappers putting sets where there IS a good chance of a dog getting into it. I don't have a major problem with leg traps. It is the conibear sitting in a spot a hunting dog is likely to be at some point. This is a problem. FYI, WMA and WPAs can be used by hunters, and trappers alike, completely up to the disgression of the DNR. There is no target practice or shooting allowed on these lands. They do not have to allow trapping. If thats the response from the trappers out there, that "oh well, stuff happens" then I'm on the PETA side. If you aren't for some type of regulations regarding conibear traps on WMA's and WPA in the southern half of the state during open bird season, then I don't know what the point of this is because you are clueless.

[jparrucci]

I am in agreement T&KK.

[T&KK]

Its the way it us, unless you have total control over your dog, its gunna happen sumday or the other.

You compare hunters and trappers and say they are deserving the same right, but if your dog walked infront of me and my uncontrollable finger which pulled my uncontrollable trigger and shot your dog and killed it, you would be taking me for everything and probably shooting me too. Not to mention attempted manslaughter. Now you tell me what the difference is? They are NOT the same!

[benbosh]

They do not have to allow trapping.

They don't have to allow hunting either.

If you think that no trapping should be allowed on WPA or WMA, you have to look at what the trappers are actually doing. They are controlling the predator (coon, coyote, mink, fox, etc) populations which will increase the pheasant and duck populations by increasing nest success which then improves your hunting on the WMA or WPA. So basically its dont allow them to trap on the public land then whine about the pheasant and duck populations later, or deal with it.

But i still think that it should be a little more regulated on public land like having a way of signaling that there is a trap there and more controlled around residential area.

[jparrucci]

I certainly understand why trappers don't want they trap obvious to those who could steal it. I am also very aware of the predator controls and the help to the bird population that benefit us bird hunters. It all means nothing if dogs are getting killed by conibear traps. If my dog wanders off onto somebodies propery and gets killed by one, I have nobody to blame but myself. If a CONIBEAR trap is set on public land that is frequented by bird hunters in a spot that is likely to have a dog near it, do you not see the problem? Conibear, public land, Sept-Dec in the southern half of the state is a bad idea and needs to be addressed.

[benbosh]

But i still think that it should be a little more regulated on public land like having a way of signaling that there is a trap there and more controlled around residential area.

[walleyes12]

I am all for tighter regulations on land Trapping WMA, WMP. I do feel trapers have the right to trap road ditches "carefully"

[benbosh]

I think there should be a simililar law to hunting where a wild animal may not be taken with a firearm within 500 feet of a building occupied by humans or livestock without written permission but in this case may not set traps

[walleyes12]

I think there should be a simililar law to hunting where a wild animal may not be taken with a firearm within 500 feet of a building occupied by humans or livestock without written permission but in this case may not set traps

Great Point. It should really be comon knowledge not to set a trap that close, I understand that there are people that dont, and make other trappers look bad.

[MN Shutterbug]

Jparrucci- Thats like me stating trapping is the oldest proffession is history,

C'mon. Everyone knows that prostitution is the oldest pr0fession.

[T&KK]

I am just as much of an advocate for controlling the population through hunting and trapping as anyone. I will argue that to the death, but just as was mentioned above. legally, a trap can be set 30 feet from my driveway as long as it's in the ditch. but if i shot a pheasant 30 feet from someone's driveway, i better hope they are not home. Trapping gets a bad rep and i understand that and have fought alongside with it also, but the lieniency is the reason! Just like don't blame the gun for the crime, well don't blame the trap for the crime, it's the people who have half a brain and the people who are not willing to change the laws to protect their trapping right.

Think about this... if you try to get trapping more regulated on public land, it will cut down on teh negative publicity and in turn preserving the right to trap for many years ahead. By the way it's going now, trappers will have themselves banned in a handfull of years and i don't konw if i would blame anyone since the right steps aren't being taken. If my dog would have died last year, I would have been all over this sooner, but unfortunately, my it took my dads pup this year. 3 years in a row isn't a "these things just happen", it irresponsibility on the trappers in that area.

[huntingmaxima]

I think anyone that is thinking about backing peta should be banned from this website!!

[Steve Foss]

Originally Posted By: walleyes12

Jparrucci- Thats like me stating trapping is the oldest proffession is history,

C'mon. Everyone knows that prostitution is the oldest pr0fession.

I'm thinking trapping came first. If you're going to exchange goods for services, you first have to acquire the goods in order to afford the services.

[Dave S]

And after 3 pages of another controverisal issue with so many trappers who are pro-trapping on public land, not one of you has posted anything about how to release a pet from a conibear trap.

My neighbor was walking her yellow lab who was a little too curious about something and found himself with a paw and his head stuck in a conibear. It was a half hour before someone could get there who knew how to release the trap and get the dog out. Had he not had his leg in the trap also, he would have been another casualty.

So here's my calling out to the trappers in this thread. Many of us have no idea how to release one of these traps if the need arises. Fill us in. Not just text, show us a pictorial view of how these things work.

It would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[LOTWSvirgin]

http://www.terrierman.com/traprelease.htm

Sorry the only way I can do it is with a link

[Dave S]

Very useful info. Thanks LOTW.

[jigginjim]

Very sorry to hear about the pup. The thing that was not said was the type of set. Cubby sets are designed to Hopefully prevent dogs from getting into coni traps. I try to do cubby with a large over hang to prevent dogs from getting near the trap or do a downing set if possible. The other set is a coon foot hold trap (dog proof) dog can't get paw into hole for trap. This can be a very hard subject for both sides, trappers have done alot in the past several years to try not to catch pets. (feral cats don't count as pets) you see them, you can count on 1 pheasant per day being eatin.

[picksbigwagon]

I have no idea about the trapping laws and what is legal and what is not. On that same line of thought, I am no position to decide what is "ethcical" and what is not either. Common sense should prevail in most of life's situations, including this one.

I totally agree that the loss of the pup's life is tragic.

I liked the idea of comparing it to pheasant hunting ditches, it is legal, but common sense needs to prevail. I was pheasant hunting a few years ago SE of Belle Plain. The swamp offered one bird and as i swung the gun, the bird flew on a course that took it past a house, definitely outside the 500 foot barrier, I was on public land but I didn't take that towards the house with the kid looking out the window. common sense.

[SneakAttack]

And after 3 pages of another controverisal issue with so many trappers who are pro-trapping on public land, not one of you has posted anything about how to release a pet from a conibear trap.

My neighbor was walking her yellow lab who was a little too curious about something and found himself with a paw and his head stuck in a conibear. It was a half hour before someone could get there who knew how to release the trap and get the dog out. Had he not had his leg in the trap also, he would have been another casualty.

So here's my calling out to the trappers in this thread. Many of us have no idea how to release one of these traps if the need arises. Fill us in. Not just text, show us a pictorial view of how these things work.

It would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

The 2009 hunting and trapping regs has the entire page 53 showing how to release a dog from a conibear

As a trapper, i don't set many traps in high traffic areas but when i do and the public land says you are required to, I use the cubby set shown on page 51 and have good succes with that set