Today and tomorrow maybe the last push of the season!!!! :(

[ole matty]

I think there should be only mallards season in dec along with canada geese.

[chub]

Mild November affects duck season in Minnesota

By: Associated Press, Associated Press

ST. PAUL, Minn. — The possible effect of climate warming on duck migration is a controversial topic among waterfowl managers and duck hunters alike.

But you can bet Minnesota duck hunters, realizing the season ends next Tuesday, are looking out the window this morning and asking, "What the heck is going on?"

An unusually mild November has stalled the duck and goose migration from Manitoba to Mississippi, and though some waterfowl hunters are finding birds in flooded crop fields, the lack of migration is a head-scratcher.

"We're getting an awful lot of calls about our goose count," said John Wollenberg, assistant area wildlife manager at Lac qui Parle Wildlife Management Area in western Minnesota, where the goose season ends Sunday. "Normally, we'd have 100,000 geese here by mid-November. We're stuck at 40,000. If it's not the latest migration we've had, it's one of the latest."

Are late migrations the new paradigm for waterfowl seasons? Should managers re-examine the dates when waterfowl seasons begin and end? Should hunters plan on taking their vacations in November rather in October? These and many other questions are swirling around the waterfowl-hunting world.

Michael Schummer doesn't have the answers, but he is tracking the migration trends that the duck world is talking about. He predicted in August that this would be a mild fall and a late migration, and he's telling die-hard mallard hunters in Mississippi not to take those hunting vacations in December.

"I'm saying embrace the shoveler and love the gadwall. Those mallards might not show up until the last week in January," said Schummer, a teaching and research associate in the department of wildlife, fisheries and aquaculture at Mississippi State University. Schummer and other researchers have developed a Web-based duck migration forecast, which is updated every Monday, November through January. It forecasts when migration is likely to occur for mallards and other dabbling ducks in areas from Jamestown, N.D., through Memphis, Tenn.

One thing you won't get Schummer to do is relate late migrations with climate change.

"It's an evolving science and in its infancy," he said of the climate change research. "We try to get students and researchers to weigh the evidence and information. It's controversial."

What Schummer and his associates have done is collect mountains of daily temperature and snowfall data from 1950 to 2008. The data, gathered from the Historical Climatology Network, is being compiled to create a Weather Severity Index that could be used to draw conclusions and make predictions on how temperature and snowfall influence waterfowl migration.

Similar research has been conducted in Minnesota and throughout the country to predict deer deaths during winter months.

In the 1950s, duck hunters experienced similar warm and late-migration periods as today, but trends shifted toward colder and snowy autumns in the 1970s and early 1980s — years that provided memorable seasons for waterfowlers.

But are the warm autumns in the 2000s occurring more frequently? Yes, said Schummer.

"It's the frequency of these mild events that is increasing," he said. "Last winter was pretty cold, though, but between then and 2000, we had some of the mildest years on record."

And 2009 has been very unusual. Schummer said the U.S. experienced the wettest October ever recorded in 115 years, an event that caused ducks to spread out over a vast area, especially in the Upper Midwest. With mild temperatures in November, those ducks are feeding and aren't interested in moving because "there is no reason for them to go anywhere," Schummer said.

"This is a very good year for ducks," he said. "There is a lot of food out there and a lot of places to hang out."

So how did Schummer predict this late migration? It's an El Nino year, when there is a warming of the central and eastern tropical Pacific waters. That pattern brings rain to the Southwest and warm winter weather to the northern states. How mild can El Nino make the Midwest? At 3 p.m. on Nov. 18, weather stations between Memphis and Jamestown reported temperatures varying only five degrees, from 43 to 48.

"That's typical of an El Nino year," Schummer said.

But Schummer said there's a change in weather approaching. The migration forecast predicts a major movement of dabbling ducks other than mallards during this week, and that migration will occur out of higher latitudes and into mid-latitudes, like Missouri, of the Mississippi Flyway.

In other words, you might want to be in the marsh starting on Thanksgiving and through the weekend.

Makes for a heck of good fairy tail unless you follow the NWR bird counts south of us......LOL

[onlydrakes4me]

Too many wetlands have been drained, and the refuges and WMA's get pounded so hard nothing sticks around very long. There's no place they can hide where they're not pestered constantly.

I'd be content to bag a couple big greenies and call it a season at this point.

We definatly need more habitat, more quality habitat = more birds staying longer

[Gordie]

its not so much that they will stay longer to me it that more will nest here making more birds overall

[BrdHunter01]

Originally Posted By: PRFISHER

Mild November affects duck season in Minnesota

By: Associated Press, Associated Press

ST. PAUL, Minn. — The possible effect of climate warming on duck migration is a controversial topic among waterfowl managers and duck hunters alike.

But you can bet Minnesota duck hunters, realizing the season ends next Tuesday, are looking out the window this morning and asking, "What the heck is going on?"

An unusually mild November has stalled the duck and goose migration from Manitoba to Mississippi, and though some waterfowl hunters are finding birds in flooded crop fields, the lack of migration is a head-scratcher.

"We're getting an awful lot of calls about our goose count," said John Wollenberg, assistant area wildlife manager at Lac qui Parle Wildlife Management Area in western Minnesota, where the goose season ends Sunday. "Normally, we'd have 100,000 geese here by mid-November. We're stuck at 40,000. If it's not the latest migration we've had, it's one of the latest."

Are late migrations the new paradigm for waterfowl seasons? Should managers re-examine the dates when waterfowl seasons begin and end? Should hunters plan on taking their vacations in November rather in October? These and many other questions are swirling around the waterfowl-hunting world.

Michael Schummer doesn't have the answers, but he is tracking the migration trends that the duck world is talking about. He predicted in August that this would be a mild fall and a late migration, and he's telling die-hard mallard hunters in Mississippi not to take those hunting vacations in December.

"I'm saying embrace the shoveler and love the gadwall. Those mallards might not show up until the last week in January," said Schummer, a teaching and research associate in the department of wildlife, fisheries and aquaculture at Mississippi State University. Schummer and other researchers have developed a Web-based duck migration forecast, which is updated every Monday, November through January. It forecasts when migration is likely to occur for mallards and other dabbling ducks in areas from Jamestown, N.D., through Memphis, Tenn.

One thing you won't get Schummer to do is relate late migrations with climate change.

"It's an evolving science and in its infancy," he said of the climate change research. "We try to get students and researchers to weigh the evidence and information. It's controversial."

What Schummer and his associates have done is collect mountains of daily temperature and snowfall data from 1950 to 2008. The data, gathered from the Historical Climatology Network, is being compiled to create a Weather Severity Index that could be used to draw conclusions and make predictions on how temperature and snowfall influence waterfowl migration.

Similar research has been conducted in Minnesota and throughout the country to predict deer deaths during winter months.

In the 1950s, duck hunters experienced similar warm and late-migration periods as today, but trends shifted toward colder and snowy autumns in the 1970s and early 1980s — years that provided memorable seasons for waterfowlers.

But are the warm autumns in the 2000s occurring more frequently? Yes, said Schummer.

"It's the frequency of these mild events that is increasing," he said. "Last winter was pretty cold, though, but between then and 2000, we had some of the mildest years on record."

And 2009 has been very unusual. Schummer said the U.S. experienced the wettest October ever recorded in 115 years, an event that caused ducks to spread out over a vast area, especially in the Upper Midwest. With mild temperatures in November, those ducks are feeding and aren't interested in moving because "there is no reason for them to go anywhere," Schummer said.

"This is a very good year for ducks," he said. "There is a lot of food out there and a lot of places to hang out."

So how did Schummer predict this late migration? It's an El Nino year, when there is a warming of the central and eastern tropical Pacific waters. That pattern brings rain to the Southwest and warm winter weather to the northern states. How mild can El Nino make the Midwest? At 3 p.m. on Nov. 18, weather stations between Memphis and Jamestown reported temperatures varying only five degrees, from 43 to 48.

"That's typical of an El Nino year," Schummer said.

But Schummer said there's a change in weather approaching. The migration forecast predicts a major movement of dabbling ducks other than mallards during this week, and that migration will occur out of higher latitudes and into mid-latitudes, like Missouri, of the Mississippi Flyway.

In other words, you might want to be in the marsh starting on Thanksgiving and through the weekend.

Makes for a heck of good fairy tail unless you follow the NWR bird counts south of us......LOL

I would like to know how you got your wildlife biology degree? Where did you graduate from? Bachelors or phd? Are you a U professor or do you work in the field? Id like some of your insite since you obviously know more then these men....

a teaching and research associate in the department of wildlife, fisheries and aquaculture at Mississippi State University. Also our own DNR says its one of the latest if not the latest migration ever.... But those mallards are already in Miss. right?

Note: I said Mallard.... As they are talking about mallards and geese... They are not talking about ducks in general, I believe he said embrace the shoveler and love the gadwall LOL

[brittman]

I am not so sure you need to be a degreed biologist to understand migration patterns, since no one really does. The degreed biologists can only tell you (via such things as band reports) what has happend in the past.

The lions share of mallards were in the Dakotas this year because of the flooded fields.

MN wetlands are downgraded for nutritional value (minnows). Even if MN had lower hunting pressure the mallards also moved on because of lack of food to ready them for the bigger flight south.

The MS Flyway season runs 60 days to limit the number of birds shot over the season.

[fishgutz77]

We will not have ducks in Minnesota agian until "fur is fashionable again". Too many preditors and egg eaters are are the reason. Delta is the one proving this right now in the PPR.

While DU continues to stick cute signs up on land, it's a move in the right direction but nesting hens don't have a chance.

Year after year less birds are imprinting on MN and it's showing it's ugly face right now. We have the land and the food to support lots of birds but we also have, farel cats and weasels, mink, coons, red and grey fox, skunks, opposum,badgers,coyotes,otter,crows,They are the problem and they are all egg eaters.

The other culprit is guys raising bait minnows. they have almost wiped out the fresh water shrimp where ever they are and then we wonder why scaup numbers are down because they are forced to eat snails full of tremetodes.

sorry for the rant but I've been whatching this evolution for 35 yrs now. We used to get limits of ducks before school and in our trucks and cars where lots of guns ammo and birds parked in the shcool lots. We even showed them to our teachers.

Back then lots of people trapped including me, then came along PETA and animal rights people with more money than brains and look where we are. Every critter is cute and cuddley and has feelings and emotions just like you and I.

The end,.

[walleyehunter80]

amen!

[walleyehunter80]

this state sucks for duck and it has for quite some time now. This is not a state the people travel to for duck hunting and it never will. be happy with what there is here and do your major killing somewhere else.

Or stick to geese and pheasants something our state has

[Superduty]

I'd like to think that the DU biologists are a lot better informed than the average Joe that chases ducks for two months in the fall. There are many factors contributing to the lack of ducks in Mn. Predation is one of them. The effect of predators on nesting ducks is not to be ignored. I would love it if predator numbers were reduced. Maybe the demand from overseas will help to increase trapper numbers. One thing DU has been doing with their "cute" signs is conserving habitat. Most of the remaining wetlands in Mn are fragmented and surounded by a narrow strip of nesting cover. This habitat scenario makes a nest predator very efficient. One way of reducing predation of duck nests is to provide large tracts of nesting habitat. Large areas of nesting habitat spread out the nests and lower predation rates. The Dakotas and prairie Canada have millions of acres of this type of habitat. They also have a lot more ducks than MN right now. When private organizations and govt. agencies make decisions regarding where to spend money to restore wetlands, they typically focus on the upland habitat surrounding the wetland first.

[castmaster]

Here's what I copied out of SoDaks season regs for this year. Now tell me in a state that covers as much area north to south as BOTH Dakotas, why we cant and shouldnt have split seasons to make things work for the guys up on the CA border to the guys down on the IA border, the folks along the Mississippi River etc. Obviously what a guy in Baudette thinks is good for season dates isnt going to be the same as a guy in Winona.

DUCK SEASONS:

* HIGH PLAINS That portion of the state west of a line beginning at the North Dakota state line and extending south along US Hwy 83 to US Hwy 14, east on US 14 to Blunt, south on the Blunt-Canning Road to SD Hwy 34, east and south on SD 34 to SD Hwy 50 at Lee's Corner, south on SD 50 to I-90, east on I-90 to SD 50, south on SD 50 to SD Hwy 44, west on SD 44 across the Platte-Winner Bridge to SD Hwy 47, south on SD 47 to US 18, east on US 18 to SD 47, south on SD 47 to the Nebraska state line.

Season dates: Oct. 10, 2009 -- Jan. 14, 2010

* LOW PLAINS—NORTH ZONE: That portion of northeastern South Dakota east of the High Plains Unit and north of a line extending east along US Hwy 212 to the Minnesota state line.

Season dates: Sept. 26 - Dec. 8

* LOW PLAINS—MIDDLE ZONE: The remainder of the state.

Season dates: Sept. 26 - Dec. 8

* LOW PLAINS—SOUTH ZONE: That portion of Gregory County east of SD 47 and south of SD 44; Charles Mix County south of SD 44 to the Douglas County line, south on SD 50 to Geddes, east on the Geddes Hwy to US 281, south on US 281 and US 18 to SD 50, south and east on SD 50 to the Bon Homme County line; and the counties of Bon Homme, Yankton, Clay south of SD 50, and Union south and west of SD 50 and I-29.

Season dates: Oct. 10 - Dec. 22

[BrdHunter01]

Here's what I copied out of SoDaks season regs for this year. Now tell me in a state that covers as much area north to south as BOTH Dakotas, why we cant and shouldnt have split seasons to make things work for the guys up on the CA border to the guys down on the IA border, the folks along the Mississippi River etc. Obviously what a guy in Baudette thinks is good for season dates isnt going to be the same as a guy in Winona.

^^^^ 2nd that

[BP2]

Quote:

Funny how different people see different things. With a state the size of MN why we arent split into zones is beyond me. I'd gladly give up shooting a few teal and woodies early in the season in order to shoot big northern greenies in December.

I agree. 3 zones. Brainerd north is zone 1. SE MN is zone 2. Remainder of state zone 3. Open all at the same time as to not get one area of the state flooded with more hunters than usual on opener. Zone 1 goes straight through. Zone 2 closes after opener for 3 weeks. Zone 3 closes for 2 weeks. Something like this anyway.

My only thought is that I'd trade mallards for teal and woodies everyday so let's open things earlier up north anyway!

[castmaster]

Does anyone know how season length is decided? Just wondering why SD doesnt have any of its zones with a season length of 60 days like ours is. They are all longer than 60 day seasons. I always thought the total length was set at 60 days by the USFWS.

Heck the SD Northern Plains zone gets a season thats over 90 days long.

[kobear]

A Split! No way! My best hunting is in Middle October for Ringbills. Always real consistent, great this year, best hunting I had.

90 day season all the way. Start earlier like ND and go right on through. Why do all these other states get 90 days and we get 60???

What mallards are you trading for? Those still in Canada? Check reports from down south they already went south. Or from up north, they are gone.

Reports from Dauphin, MB on Winnipegosis are that the birds left by Nov. 12th, report from J Clark Salyer ND is ducks left by Nov. 12th, Weyburn Saskatchewan reports mallards were gone by Nov. 25th, other reports from Saskatchewan are ducks were slim all year and gone now. Here's the hot link http://www.huntthenorth.com/Fallmigrationreports.html

[chub]

Kobear, there are those that will still insist the ducks are in Canada when they still haven't arrived by January 15th. ...and there will still probably be a few up there in some power plant pond then too.

For whatever reason(take your pick), we just never had a strong migration this year, and what little we did have, was shortlived. Not much seemed to stick around for very long. Still had hope for today with the front coming in......, figured a few straglers would have to show up out on the border.

Wrong again. Haven't seen the Swans or nearly as many geese the last couple days either.

This year our season outlasted the ducks.

As for a split season here in Mn,.... No way. Our weather is too unpredictable. You MIGHT have open water until December 1st, or most everything other than some rivers may be frozen by November 7th. In either case, most of the birds are going to be south of us anyway, except for a few holdouts.

Guess it was certainly a strange season if nothing else.

[Gordie]

A Split! No way! My best hunting is in Middle October for Ringbills. Always real consistent, great this year, best hunting I had.

90 day season all the way. Start earlier like ND and go right on through. Why do all these other states get 90 days and we get 60???

What mallards are you trading for? Those still in Canada? Check reports from down south they already went south. Or from up north, they are gone.

Reports from Dauphin, MB on Winnipegosis are that the birds left by Nov. 12th, report from J Clark Salyer ND is ducks left by Nov. 12th, Weyburn Saskatchewan reports mallards were gone by Nov. 25th, other reports from Saskatchewan are ducks were slim all year and gone now. Here's the hot link http://www.huntthenorth.com/Fallmigrationreports.html

Looks to me that thwere is ducks in mossuri and thats when I want to go

[5806]

The Dakotas are in the Central flyway. USFWS gave Central up to a 74 day season. Pacific got 107 days. Mississippi and Atlantic got 60 days.

[BP2]

As for a split season here in Mn,.... No way. Our weather is too unpredictable. You MIGHT have open water until December 1st, or most everything other than some rivers may be frozen by November 7th.

BUT we always have open water the last weekend in September (obviously). So open it up sooner.

AND...with no hunting pressure in other zones when the season is closed, ducks will more likely stick around until you can hunt them again.

As for things being froze by Nov 7th, that's rare if ever true. We've hunted and killed birds till the end of the season every year here in northern MN. I'm sure those south of us would agree.

[CANOPY SAM]

Not to be argumentative, FishGutz, but North and South Dakota have just as many predators as Minnesota. And if you were to include Avian predators, hawks, etc., probably more.

I talked to Lloyd Jones, then president of Delta Waterfowl, back in the early 90's. They were doing a lot of testing back then on this very topic.

Delta was pouring a disproportionate amount of effort into predator control. I stated, in front of a large panel of waterfowl "experts", and I was studying Biology at UND at the time, that when the water returns to the Dakotas, which it did after several years of drought thru the eighties, the ducks would follow.

Lo and behold, when the prairie potholes re-filled with water in the early 90's, the ducks were back. This had virtually nothing to do with predators.

Not coincidentally, Minnesota saw much better duck hunting while the Dakotas and Southern Manitoba were dry.

Predation is going to be a problem no matter how much money we throw at it. It's imply unrealistic to think we can intervene and reduce or eliminate predators without upsetting yet another piece of a balanced ecosystem. Everything plays it's part.

But, as was stated previously, LARGE tracts of wetlands in conjuction with wide bands of CRP acreage, once returned to Minnesota, will vastly change our waterfowl outlook. That's the way our state used to look 50 years ago. That's the way much of North Dakota looks now.

You can't just ignore the fact that Minnesota has tiled, ditched and drained the vast majority of it's original wetlands. THAT is precisely what has changed the migrational patterns of Canada's ducks and geese.

There's also some real validity to the minnow hatchery debate. It's big business in Minnesota. There are a lot of good wetlands in MN compromised for waterfowl by this practice. Who would you sell bait too in NoDak?

I'd definately agree that one doesn't need a degree in Biology to observe these trends, although I highly respect the efforts of all game and fish entities for attempting to better our waterfowl situation.

Bring back the water, and the birds will follow.

As for the final push this season, I did hear geese moving south, at night, thru our area this weekend, ahead of this recent Alberta clipper. I have not SEEN any birds in the area. I'm still pretty sure that MOST of the birds moved south thru the Dakotas. Although I have no doubt we'll still see a few honkers and greenheads around - we always do.

[fishgutz77]

All good points, I just tend to believe my eyes more than the science I been reading in the last ten years or so. Courdts out a bemidji is a fairly good source though.

Most of the ducks we like to hunt are field nesters not water nesters even most of the divers. Given that fact, restoring wet land habitat does not necessarily mean good nesting ground.

I agree that more land makes it harder for predators to lock in on nesting hens but that also means more predators of every kind.

The water in the Dakotas is one thing but that much food and prarie nesting habitat is the bomb for these birds.

A great example of whats happened is Pelican in Wright county.

this thing used to be a duck meca and the combination of predation due to lack of hunting and trapping and fish have destoyed it. Many migrating birds don't even use it any more they use the lakes and rivers around it. also pressure can not be discounted. I know a few of the land owners and farmers around Pelican and in 25 years ag land and nesting acreage have not changed that much, but other factors have.

Lots of mallards and geese nest right in the metro area, why?

My conclusion is that there is exceptable habitat and very few predators.

I'm building a few tunnels every year to do what I can because this really is an answer to predators and habitat if done right.

DU is a great group sorry if I gave the wrong impression.

shoot straight and allways get your cripples.

[Quackaddict9]

Quote:

Quack. You must do your homework and spend a ton of time in the field. More power to ya'. I remember when I had that kind of time to spare. Wish I could get it back. We simply don't have mallards around our area this year. Too many wetlands have been drained, and the refuges and WMA's get pounded so hard nothing sticks around very long. There's no place they can hide where they're not pestered constantly.

CanopySam- You're from TRF?....1/2 of the ducks we shot were within 10 mile radius of TRF.

[oilguy]

The trumpeters that have stopped by here for the last 10 years arrived at 10:07 today. looks like 7 adults and 1 juvie this year. Conspicuously absent are their late migration buddies, the golden eyes and common sawbills.

[CANOPY SAM]

FishGutz,

Agreed. There seem to be numerous factors conspiring against us to reduce our Minnesota duck nesting success. Although I think goose nesting and duck nesting habitat can be quite different in that geese seem pretty stoic about defending their nests vs. ducks. Maybe that's why they are such successful breeders wherever they call home?

Anyway, I wish we could have our original wetlands back. I think things would look much different once the migration began each year.

Quack,

Is that you dragging the enclosed trailer with the insignia on it that's in your avatar? I've never been able to make out what it says? Are you the guy that makes duck calls up here?

Geez... You just had to rub it in didn't you? Like I said, I just don't have the time to scout around like I used to. I figured there had to be some greenheads around here, but I just couldn't put my bead on em' this year.

Maybe you'll have a little room for an extra gun next season? Har Har Har... Did you, by chance, hunt a grain stubble field just south of Brodin's Sheet Metal, in the south end of TRF this fall? I live right on the edge of that field. My boy and I hunted it a few times this year.

[Quackaddict9]

Quote:

Geez... You just had to rub it in didn't you? Like I said, I just don't have the time to scout around like I used to. I figured there had to be some greenheads around here, but I just couldn't put my bead on em' this year.

nah, I just wanted you to know there are ducks around TRF

Nope that would be Cory Loeffler (producer of Death Row Calls) who has the big black trailer with large DRC decals on it. The one in my avatar is on back of my Red Chevy truck... I cruise around TRF during the season. Nope, did not hunt close to Brodin's Sheet Metal, just North and East of town. It helps to have friends who farms and have permission to the fields and we also do some hunting close to Thief Lake. Look me up for next fall, maybe can work something out.