Grouse Hunting from ATVs

[Dave S]

Lep, they are referring to "horses" in that segment. An Atv'er does have to yield right of way to a "non motorized" trail user, but only has to shut down or be waved on by a person on a horse.

I caught that after I originally posted my last response, hence the reason I posted the link to the regs and my edit.

Still, I'm glad you clarified that. Thanks.

[Trashguy]

I am so old school, don't like the noise, don't like the ruts, but have no problem with someone if an ATV is "needed". Our society is so lazy now aday, is that why so many bait illegally, why so many litter the woods and lakes, etc. But, don't worry about me I've quit grouse hunting and everyone in my family has given it up as well, maybe we're just getting lazy.

I agree with you 1000% Musky Buck.

BucknDucks says: "I was under the understanding that the reason ppl chose to walk for grouse instead of ride was to get away from the crowds and ppl, but yet there the very same ones who refuse to get off the trail and bust brush, like sum claim they are doing. Kinda hard to have a gripe about a guy putzn down a logging road lookn for a bird, if ur not on the very same trail as he is! All im sayn is theres alot more woods full of grouse than jus where the atv trail leads ya! If ur a walker u should have no problem getn there."

Well as fore mentioned I walk with a cane and am legally disabled. I cannot "bust brush" and have a hell of a time just walking down a logging road/trail. So busting brush is not an option. I know that I am not the only one that is disabled, but still prefers to walk for grouse if they still can.

What bothers me the most about some of the replies from the ATV users in this thread are basically saying that you hunt the way you want and I will hunt the way I want. Well that is my main grip, I can't hunt the way I want anymore. Guess I will give it up shortly also, like many walkers already have. Too bad.

Also my question earlier in this thread, I didn't see any replies saying they would turn around. That syncs with my real world experiences.

& this topic is not dead and won't be until all the walkers are too.

Trashguy

[mixxedbagg]

[PoorWordUsage] and not at all "hunting". Any [PoorWordUsage] could do it--like fishing with dynamite. When I'm walking the trails, I don't even waste my time waving to the ATV grouse killers. Fortunately, there are some nonmotorized areas around where I can be lonely...though the habitat doesn't seem to be as good. Nothing worse than some clown rolling past you on a wheeler and blasting a bird 200' ahead of you. As far as I'm concerned, guys shooting birds from ATVs look bad, aren't hunting, and are just rednecks in need of some excercise. I saw at least 2 dozen guys with guns and orange last weekend and only 2 were on foot....the rest in pickups driving slowly or on ATVs--pathetic.

[mixxedbagg]

with 2 major atv manuf. in the state I dont think they would allow that to happen

[Dave S]

IMO it's poor ethics to pass someone only to shoot a bird a couple hundred feet infront of him, but not against the law as long as the ATV is being used legally.

My dad cannot walk long distances and has given up deer hunting but not ice fishing. Since his mobility is limited, he bought a Rhino for the hard water season. Should he be chastised because he can beat the neighbor walking on foot to a hot bite on the lake?

[CRAZYEYES]

I just got back from hunting up near The I Falls and Orr area since opener. I have been out in the woods every day and the amount of road hunting going on is down right sad. I bet four or five times I have seen vehicles pulled over or stopped in the middle of a major forest road with the car doors open and out chasing road birds. This is not hunting! Just yesterday I was walking the Arrowhead state trail near Ash river. It clearly states at the beginning of the trail that no atv are allowed but yet hear comes some guy on his machine with his over under on the rack cracked open and ready to go and a bird bungge corded to the front. He stopped and talked to me and the arrogance of this guy was just disgusting. First he told me that he got one and the bird was a dumb one that never moved out of the road and that he never had to get off the machine for this dumb bird. I then tried to tell him that there are no atv's allowed on this road and that this is the state snowmobiling trail. He told me that there were other 4 wheeler tracks tgoing around the gate like this somehow made it alright for him to do it too as well as telling me that Lloyd don't care referring to Lloyd Steen the local game warden. So I decied to walk back into the woods on another trail nearby and although my vehicle was parked at the end of this small road I got ten minuites down the trail and here comes this same sob. He stopped again and asked me how hunting was. I asked him if he saw my vehicle parked at the end of the road and he said yeah but he can hunt it too. While this maybe true I NEVER walk in behind other hunters out of common courtesy as well as its kind of a safety issue. All I can say is its time to ban theese machines on public lands and grouse hunting as well as make these guys put the guns back in the case while on the machine. And I did talk to Lloyd Steen, he wrote 11 tickets opening day involving ATV / grouse hunting issues and he does care about hunters on the state trail.

[mixxedbagg]

LEP7MM, I don't think people on this thread are getting down on people with actual limited mobility (which I can confidently say is NOT the norm out there) or using ATVs for things like ice fishing. I don't think ATVs used for ice fishing have much of an effect on the fish population or the quality of the fishing for other people out there. The same can't be said for ""hunting"" from an ATV. ATV and road ""hunting"" is becoming the typical, and in my opinion, unethical way to take grouse. If we can have laws banning things like fishing with 2 lines, why not make this unfair advantage that adversely impacts others illegal? You can't just motor around a lake shooting ducks.

Shooting grouse from an ATV is no more "hunting" than running them over with your car.

And I think it's laughable that the few ATV grouse shooting advocates throw around "elitist" and "LLBean" garbage. Fact is, the ATV shooting crowd has more dough wrapped up in grouse killing (truck, trailer, ATVs, ATV mount gun case, etc) than any walker . I've seen ATV grousing slobs pass me on ATVs worth as much as all of my outdoor gear combined.

[Chef]

Ok heres one for everyone to spin around on now. Whats ur take on the new un-cased law regarding transporting firearms on atv's? I for 1 use an atv to pursue grouse, and feel not one bit bad about it. It is not the only way I hunt them, but as was stated earlier, whats the sense of walking miles and miles of area that are void of grouse. I dont have all the free time in the world to waste on areas of no grouse, so the wheeler helps me harvest birds jus like guys with great dogs, or better knowledge of grouse habitiat. Im not a biologist, jus a guy who likes to hunt. I use the resources that I have available to me. No different the way I see it. I was under the understanding that the reason ppl chose to walk for grouse instead of ride was to get away from the crowds and ppl, but yet there the very same ones who refuse to get off the trail and bust brush, like sum claim they are doing. Kinda hard to have a gripe about a guy putzn down a logging road lookn for a bird, if ur not on the very same trail as he is! All im sayn is theres alot more woods full of grouse than jus where the atv trail leads ya! If ur a walker u should have no problem getn there.

Herein lies the justification for using anything (an atv in this case) that will speed up your pleasure-seeking pursuits?

Man, I must be getting old because this post really hits home for me. You're not entitled to use trails and an atv then tell a walker they have to get off the trail find their game, sorry.

[wdgold]

I tend to side with dogs on this one.

Although I no longer own an ATV, I still enjoy the time spent riding. As long as someone is traveling on the ATV legally and abiding by the laws set forth for grouse hunting, what's the issue?

There is no group in this country that is so elite that they should be able to dictate how a person reaches their destination as long as it's done lawfully.

Sometimes the critiquing of how to do everthing the right way becomes so overkill, that when the time comes a group needs to "Police Themselves", there becomes a division too great to overcome.

Leave it to the Strib to print another anti-ATV article.

I agree with you to a point. I don't hunt from an ATV and like you said I don't mind as long as they are obeying the law. For me ATV hunters need to use some common sense and courtesy. I think it is unethical to be going down trails where people are parked and walking down that trail especially when you ride down the trail and pass the walker, that to me is idiotic and you have no respect for other outdoorsman.

[BucksnDucks]

I would like to clarify better what I said before. I in no way, hunt grouse "from" my atv. I simply use it to get areas, that are perfectly legal for me and my atv to be in, to attempt to harvest a grouse on foot. If I were to see others vechiles or some other form of letting me know that they are in a certain area, I would avoid that particular area all together. I like the peace and sense of easyness, knowing jus like everyone else out in the woods, that Im alone and dont have to be bothered by others at that time in my pursuit of game. So to answer your question, no I would not come ripping by you and pound a grouse on the trail 200 yds ahead of you! Im not to say that hey if I seen a grouse off of the trail on my way to my intended destination, that I wouldnt park the atv and walk this new area over abit. Its still perfectly legal to do that isnt it? Some ppl get so greedy over game thinkin every game animal in the area they are huntin is all theres and no one elses. Its kind of like sayn if I went by a bird and didnt notice it, does that mean it still belongs to me cuz I went by it first, and now nobody is allowed to pursue it? Ive went by enuf birds and never seen them, only to come back 5 minutes later and whatu know there they are, both on foot and riding.

[Matt Breuer]

mixxedbagg, I love how you clump all of the ATV riders into the "redneck" cluster. Have you read your own posts?

Everyone's pointing fingers and thinking they're correct, but the truth of the matter is, we all pee on the lid in one bathroom or another. Don't point fingers and call "bad" unless you self-examine first...

[Shack]

I completely agree with Dennis Anderson on this one. With the exception of truly disabled hunters which are justified, blasting grouse from an ATV is lazy as and not at all "hunting". Any [PoorWordUsage] could do it--like fishing with dynamite. When I'm walking the trails, I don't even waste my time waving to the ATV grouse killers. Fortunately, there are some nonmotorized areas around where I can be lonely...though the habitat doesn't seem to be as good. Nothing worse than some clown rolling past you on a wheeler and blasting a bird 200' ahead of you. As far as I'm concerned, guys shooting birds from ATVs look bad, aren't hunting, and are just rednecks in need of some excercise. I saw at least 2 dozen guys with guns and orange last weekend and only 2 were on foot....the rest in pickups driving slowly or on ATVs--pathetic.

That is the big difference that I think many people who do not know what legal Grouse hunting with an ATV means.

Maybe the law changed this (have not read up on it), but when I hunted from an ATV, YOU DID NOT DISCHARGE/LOAD A FIREARM ON OR UNDER THE LEGAL DISTANCE FROM THE MOTORIZED VEHICLE! YOU DID NOT RUN OVER BIRDS< YOU GOT OFF WHEN ONE WAS SEEN AND GO IN THE WOODS!

I think we are talking about two different situations here. One is law-abiding and the other is lawbreaking.

IMO ATV hunting for grouse is more about being out on an ATV than it is about hunting.

Mixxedbag I would wave to you if I where I on an ATV and passed you by. That (IMO) is being a good sportsman. Treating/showing a law-abiding, fellow sportsman with respect is what separates myself from anti-hunters. To me it would be like giving a Bronx salute to a fellow Vikings fan who is wearing a Vikes jersey with the wrong number/player on it

Maybe I am wrong, but if a fellow sportsman is perfectly legal, but is doing something I personally do not care for, (again IMO) still deserves respect.

A person could also ask "what is the difference between walking down (dog or no dog) a trail or idling down the trail with an ATV?"

Not much if you ask me, besides the trail walker has a loaded gun ready when a bird is seen. Some of the guys I hunt with take the easy path and stay on the trail, while other guys (my self included) want that rush of being off the trail and flushing a bird in a thicket. The trail walker in my grouse hunting group, tends to be Grandpa, the heavy guy, or the lazy guy. Do I have less respect for them? No. Even a trail walker with a dog.

That could bring up a question of ethics

You are off the trail, flush a grouse, it flies over the open sky of the trail, and the guy walking the trail shoots a open area flying grouse, is that ethical. IMO yes, but to some, the guy walking the trail just took advantage of a grouse .

[crappiekiller77]

They should just ban ATV'S for grouse hunting or make more "walking only trails", I totally agree this. With that being said I have hunted off of an atv before and many of us have. I prefer to walk for the most part, I mean that's what it's all about. But when you hunt state land and you have these unethical idiots out there, you have to keep up with the jones' IMO and cover some ground. So many times I have parked my wheeler or truck at the head of a trail and some douche comes flying by as many of have said. So in turn this causes a disadvantage to the guy walking and puts pressure on you to follow suit so to speak. I hunt in the Nemadji state forest and the thing that ticks me off the most is dirt bikes up there. These morons rode them during deer rifle season (talk about dangerous!) a couple years ago until they were banned recently. State land is really a joke these days. Step it up DNR and make more non-wheeler trails or ban hunting from them.

[crappiekiller77]

Oh and LOL at not shooting grouse on the ground. I'll put that easy breast in my freezer anyday, thanks for leaving the ground birds you Daniel Boone's. I appreciate it.

[Shack]

That's it

I am going to write an Article to the Star and Trib. now:

Quote:

"The Trail Walker"

Ethical or Not Ethical?

By Shackbash

10.2.2009

Loaded gun in hand, hunting dog bouncing back and forth, a lone "grouse" hunter walks an open logging trail in the northern woods of Minnesota.

Is this true grouse hunting or just a lazy hunter looking to pluck off an easy grouse, while not letting his hands get dirty?

What happened to the days when getting your hunting vest full of burrs and stickers, a rip or two in your thick canvas pants was considered a badge of honor after a day of grouse hunting? Is grouse hunting vastly becoming a "lazy" mans sport? Are grouse hunters taking advantage of young, unseasoned grouse, while walking "open" logging and recreational trails? In my opinion.......

At least I would get some press on the internet web forums

[BucksnDucks]

I will say that alot and I mean alot of the areas that I used to be able to drive my atv, are all now non-motorized areas. Just in the last 4-5 years alone, the scene has changed drastically. So to say that they need more non-motorized areas is a joke. We are evolving people, either change with it or be left in the dust, thats life. Survival of the fittest! I for one believe there is already to much land that has been turned off limits to atv's because of what some joker did during the spring or summer when the ground was soft. Dont punish the hunters using atv's for hunting, get after the num-skulls ripping the [PoorWordUsage] outta the trails in the summer. I guess my biggest gripe is thats fine if certain ppl dont want to use atv's on public lands, but some of us do, now why should my freedom be intrepted to accomdate theres? They dont have to walk down the trail that was busted by an atv if they dont want to see one, theres plenty and I mean plenty of areas of public land where there is no trails for atv's, use that land if u dont want to see me on mine.

[Matt Breuer]

shack, great point about the confusion between legal and non-legal ATV hunters. I think a lot of people are assuming the pro-ATV people are taking birds FROM their ATV. I am completely against doing it illegally.

The ATV riders and road hunters are getting by pretty easy now days. What ever happened to the laws requiring you to turn off your vehicle, and be X amount of feet from it before discharging a firearm? Now all you have to do is step off or out of the vehicle. And the cased gun law.... don't even get me started!

As stated before, I prefer to walk behind my dogs, because that's what it's all about. However, as long as an ATV hunter is doing things legally and resepctfully, I think it's okay.

[SledNeck]

My gripe with people who hunt grouse from ATVs (not people who ride them to get to their walking spots)

1. Gives abled bodied hunters a horrible image to the non-hunting public. One reason we are thought of as loud, fat and lazy.

2. I Cant even safely walk half of the trails in the woods cause they are so rutted out and after a rain its downright dangerous.

3. I dont see the appeal. Why would someone not want the exercise and use their senses of sight and hearing to get grouse?

[crappiekiller77]

I will say that alot and I mean alot of the areas that I used to be able to drive my atv, are all now non-motorized areas. Just in the last 4-5 years alone, the scene has changed drastically. So to say that they need more non-motorized areas is a joke. We are evolving people, either change with it or be left in the dust, thats life. Survival of the fittest! I for one believe there is already to much land that has been turned off limits to atv's because of what some joker did during the spring or summer when the ground was soft. Dont punish the hunters using atv's for hunting, get after the num-skulls ripping the [PoorWordUsage] outta the trails in the summer. I guess my biggest gripe is thats fine if certain ppl dont want to use atv's on public lands, but some of us do, now why should my freedom be intrepted to accomdate theres? They dont have to walk down the trail that was busted by an atv if they dont want to see one, theres plenty and I mean plenty of areas of public land where there is no trails for atv's, use that land if u dont want to see me on mine.

We don't all hunt the same stretch of woods buddy, the areas I hunt could use some more non-motorized trails. Like another poster said the land that is non-motorized is not the most ideal grouse habitat and I would have to agree with that from what I have seen. I think there is probabaly a happy medium that could be reached.

[Dave S]

They should just ban ATV'S for grouse hunting or make more "walking only trails", I totally agree this. With that being said I have hunted off of an atv before and many of us have. I prefer to walk for the most part, I mean that's what it's all about. But when you hunt state land and you have these unethical idiots out there, you have to keep up with the jones' IMO and cover some ground. So many times I have parked my wheeler or truck at the head of a trail and some douche comes flying by as many of have said. So in turn this causes a disadvantage to the guy walking and puts pressure on you to follow suit so to speak. I hunt in the Nemadji state forest and the thing that ticks me off the most is dirt bikes up there. These morons rode them during deer rifle season (talk about dangerous!) a couple years ago until they were banned recently. State land is really a joke these days. Step it up DNR and make more non-wheeler trails or ban hunting from them.

Banning ATVs for grouse hunting isn't going to fix much. If someone has poor ethics on an ATV, they'll most certainly have poor ethics on their own 2 feet.

I've had several cases where I've been riding the designated Nemadji ATV trails only to encounter.......you guessed it, a grouse hunter with a springer having the time of his life 30 feet off the trail. Not that this is the case for the ATV complaints here, but if you don't want to encounter ATVs while grouse hunting, don't hunt designated ATV trails as it was in my situation.

[BobT]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned. You all are talking as though hunters are shooting from ATVs. Isn't that illegal? You can't be on an ATV with a loaded shotgun to my knowledge.

[Dave S]

Matt posted this a few posts back. But good point either way. Unless someone sees an ATV rider actually shoot from their machine or carrying an uncased/loaded gun on their ATV, then they should be calling the CO. How often have the calls been made?

shack, great point about the confusion between legal and non-legal ATV hunters. I think a lot of people are assuming the pro-ATV people are taking birds FROM their ATV. I am completely against doing it illegally.

The ATV riders and road hunters are getting by pretty easy now days. What ever happened to the laws requiring you to turn off your vehicle, and be X amount of feet from it before discharging a firearm? Now all you have to do is step off or out of the vehicle. And the cased gun law.... don't even get me started!

As stated before, I prefer to walk behind my dogs, because that's what it's all about. However, as long as an ATV hunter is doing things legally and resepctfully, I think it's okay.

[crappiekiller77]

Originally Posted By: crappiekiller77

They should just ban ATV'S for grouse hunting or make more "walking only trails", I totally agree this. With that being said I have hunted off of an atv before and many of us have. I prefer to walk for the most part, I mean that's what it's all about. But when you hunt state land and you have these unethical idiots out there, you have to keep up with the jones' IMO and cover some ground. So many times I have parked my wheeler or truck at the head of a trail and some douche comes flying by as many of have said. So in turn this causes a disadvantage to the guy walking and puts pressure on you to follow suit so to speak. I hunt in the Nemadji state forest and the thing that ticks me off the most is dirt bikes up there. These morons rode them during deer rifle season (talk about dangerous!) a couple years ago until they were banned recently. State land is really a joke these days. Step it up DNR and make more non-wheeler trails or ban hunting from them.

Banning ATVs for grouse hunting isn't going to fix much. If someone has poor ethics on an ATV, they'll most certainly have poor ethics on their own 2 feet.

I've had several cases where I've been riding the designated Nemadji ATV trails only to encounter.......you guessed it, a grouse hunter with a springer having the time of his life 30 feet off the trail. Not that this is the case for the ATV complaints here, but if you don't want to encounter ATVs while grouse hunting, don't hunt designated ATV trails as it was in my situation.

Whatever, no matter what someone is going to have something to say. Unethical ATV or truck hunters are much worse than a guy walking anyday. Hate that when I am walking in the quiet and all of a sudden a loud fourwheeler passes by, makes me feel like I should turn around and quit the trail.

[BucksnDucks]

Common sense tells us yes!! Correct

[uplander]

Maybe if we argued less and hunted more ....we would all be happier.LOL..Just tryin to lighten the mood. Haeading North of Deer Rinver Sunday and Monday...try to avoid running me over..Have fun however you do it!!!!!!

[mixxedbagg]

mixxedbagg, I love how you clump all of the ATV riders into the "redneck" cluster. Have you read your own posts?

Not so. Just able-bodied folks using their ATVs as grouse-taking tools. I never said I was antiATV--they have their uses--I just that rolling around blasting grouse from trails is not hunting. It might be legal, but so are a lot of other tacky activities one could engage in.

And it's pretty darn easy to tell who is using a wheeler to get to another place to walk and who is just driving around really slowly looking for birds to pop. (It's been a long time since I saw an ATV just parked at a trailhead while the owner was off walking for birds.) I guess that's OK if it's more important to fill out on meat than it is to actually hunt, but I'm amazed the regs have gone the wrong direction on this regarding uncased guns on wheelers.

By the way, safety-wise, I'll take my chances with a guy (or gal) on foot who has been continuously assessing the situation and able to listen for people, buildings, vehicles, etc than someone who just rolled up on an ATV with an uncased gun and hasn't had much time to look or listen for for this stuff and shoots because they found a hapless bird. People "hunting" from ATVs undoubtedly pose a greater risk to other hunters.

Also, I am amazed that the antihunting crowd hasn't run with the material the road hunters and ATV "hunters" give them. If I were with PETA, I'd stage a poster of a big slob with an "All God's Creatures" T-shirt (some of you have seen it...dumb) on a 4-wheeler with a cracked open shotgun on the side and a grouse bungeed to the front with the words, "Mighty Hunter" across the top. I feel like I see that guy in the woods every weekend. I can definitely look like a hick out there at times, but I guess I'd rather be lumped in with the LL Bean guys if that were the alternative.

[Coach]

If everyone, not just people on ATV's would turn around when they see another hunter and do not pass them, this would take care of a good chunk of the issues we are having here. I am a hunter that does not have a ATV or a dog, when I come to a trail and a truck is there, you go somewhere else. I would not walk by another hunter, a ATV should not pass one either.

[mixxedbagg]

Good luck getting that to happen. ATVers almost always pass the walker and keep looking for birds ahead. At that point, unless the trail has a few forks or the woods are walkable, it's time for the walker to hike out and find another trailhead.

[grousehunter]

I think this is more of an ethical hunter vesus unethical hunter discussion than ATV versus walking. I have had people walking as well as ATV's head down the same trail I am on. I like to work the cover a lot whenever my dog gets birdy or habitat transition areas and by working it slower like this you will have other walkers catch up to you as well. I think people should resepct that another hunter is already in that area and find another trail. There are plenty of great areas when hunting in Northern MN and no shortage of public land. I have driven to and turned around plenty of times when someone else was already hunting one of my favorite areas.

I have no problem with ATV's if they are using them to get to areas to hunt or cruising a trail until they see a nice swamp edge or area that looks grousy to actually walk in. I have never hunted from an ATV, but I think that they could be quite usefull in those situations. I am sure plenty of the people you see out riding there atv's may just be out for a ride and bring the gun alone just in case. If the ATV rider is just cruising the trail until he sees a grouse and jumps off to ground pound them, than I do have a problem with that. Not only is it illegal, but it really can not be all that rewarding or enjoyable. Of course ground pounding is another great debate in the world of grouse hunting. I use to do it when I first started, but chose not to now since I do not get near the enjoyment from it as having my dog flush the bird and for me to shoot it on wing.

Either way we just need to respect eachother. There is plenty of habitat to give people there space until they are done hunting a certain area. Everyone will always have their own way of enjoying the hunt and long as its within the law and mixed with a good dose of respect for our fellow hunters there shouldn't be any problems while we are all out enjoying our time in the woods.

[Matt Breuer]

If the ATV rider is just cruising the trail until he sees a grouse and jumps off to ground pound them, than I do have a problem with that. Not only is it illegal, but it really can not be all that rewarding or enjoyable.

It is legal, and some people find it enjoyable.