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Bemdji Pioneer - Netting Back


Da Beak

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From the Bemidji Pioneer....

Red Lake Nation: Chairman presents State of the Band address.

He also reported on the outcome of the second season of commercial fishing by Red Lake Fisheries. The fisheries sold $800,000 worth of fish and paid $435,514 in wages to the 45 employees. However, hook-and-line angling has only tapped about half of the 820,000-pound quota. So, in June, Red Lake Fisheries will begin netting fish, along with continuing to buy fish caught with hook and line.

“All harvesting will be scientifically monitored by our DNR,” Jourdain said.

As they say, History tends to repeat itself....

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"As they say, History tends to repeat itself...."

And some more history lessons that we learned from.

#1. This Topic will not turn into a complaining & moaning Topic with hate filled, semi-racist and uninformed attacks like I see happening on other Forums. If someone wants to make an ignorant and stupid post that shows the world how little you know about the situation there are other places on the internet where you will fit right in.

Nobody can be happy about this except the bootleggers who will be trying to sell walleyes on the black market. The Red Lake Band tried hard to make hook and line fishing work but they ran into the same problem anglers ran into all over the state this winter. The fish either quit biting or the action slowed way down.

We do not know if they are talking about gill nets or pond nets yet. We do not know how it will be monitored or run yet. So lets not shoot the horse because it might break it’s leg next year.

Remember that when the Red Lake’s walleyes crashed before by the Red Lake Band members own estimate 3,000,000, (YES 3 MILLION!) pounds of walleyes were leaving the lakes every year through the Red Lake Band by their allowable harvest, the bootlegging and fish spoiling. I do not think their safe allowable harvest of 820,000 pounds will hurt the lake. In fact over the long run it may help. In my opinion we might be running into a situation where we have too many fish for the forage base and growth rates are slowing.

Remember that when everything crashed before white people were putting gill nets in rivers DURING the spawning run. White people were leaving the lake with 100’s of walleyes and bootlegging them. White people were taking 3 to 6 limits of walleyes a day off the lake. The reported take off from the state run part of URL was higher some years then our present safe allowable harvest and that did not include the illegal walleyes. Everybody was too blame and there was plenty of blame to go around. All we can do this time is to do everything we can to keep our piece of the lake as legal as we can so if the lake crashes again this time we are not to blame.

Another part of the article that Da Beak choose not to include in his post.

"On the downside of the fisheries report, he said black market sales of Red Lake walleye continues. The allure of quick cash has cost the fisheries thousands of dollars, he said."

The bootlegged/blackmarketed walleyes is what will kill the lake. Remember that it is not Indians selling to Indians. White people are buying the fish. If the white people would quit buying the bootlegged walleyes the bootlegging would stop also. This is where everyone statewide can step up and make a difference. If you are in a bar and someone is selling walleyes call TIP. If you go to a sporting event and someone in the parking lot is selling walleyes out of the back of their vehicle, CALL TIP. If a service organization is suddenly having a walleye feed ask where they got the walleyes from. If they say that they bought 20 pounds of fillets from the Red Lake Fisheries but they are serving 100 pounds then most likely they bought bootlegged fish from the Red Lakes. Remember that the people buying the bootlegged fish are stealing from everyone of us that fish in MN just as if they were breaking into our homes and stealing our TV’s.

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Not saying that this will happen but if history repeated itself it wouldn't be so bad to have that crappie boom happen again. Maybe the Red is destine to become a crappie lake?

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Drafted March 2nd 2009

As I field comments and calls concerning the announcement of the Red Lake Tribe’s decision to resume netting I can only expect it to hit the pages and text boxes of the forum. So I will type this up now so I may continue along with my work days just as I did before the announcement and just as I will after the nets hit the water.

We all knew the tribe would resume netting at some point in time, just as we new the crappies would fade and the walleye numbers boom likewise. We have always had hopes that the tribe will reform to a more manageable pond style netting operation and leave the decayed gill nets on shore as a reminder of the consequences of such an indiscriminate method of harvest. This will be up to the tribe to decide, it is their right via our treaties drafted by both white and native hands.

Now I have heard many comments, mostly negative. Some of these concerns have great consideration and some are just thoughtless ramblings shot from the hip of always overly opinionated people. I will make my case as a guide that makes his entire livelihood from Upper Red Lake. I will speak as the fourth generation to reside on this side of the reservation boundary and as a man who has seen the dark days and the effects of many decisions both good and bad.

“Walleyes will be netted out.” Now this could happen although it is going to take a substantial amount of negligence on both sides of the line. The Red Lake Band has also suffered from a crashed lake and hopefully a lesson was learned and tale remembered. Either side of the line has not come close to the cap or safe levels of harvest. We are hitting the low mark consistently as angler numbers on Upper Red Lake decline and the Red Lake Fisheries is not seeing the success they anticipated with hook and line fishing. To accommodate or appease both sides actions have been taken. The Minnesota sportsman will be allowed to keep four fish with a relaxed slot limit in the summer. The tribe will resume netting to attempt to achieve the predetermined allowable limit that was set by both parties. Both sides are responsible for monitoring take and limits. Now this is based on a large amount of trust as the tribe does not have to follow state guidelines as they are a sovereign nation that does not have to follow standard protocol . This pertains to many laws and procedures from civil law, courts systems and even fish and game laws. It is a self governing independent nation by definition. Basically it boils down do economics. We have resorts, bait shops, guides and the ever powerful Minnesota sportsmen moving dollars in a challenging economy and the tribe has a fisheries operation that has been heavily invested in. Neither side is looking to go bankrupt and will make the best decision for the longevity of prosperity as the wounds of fishless poverty have yet to fully heal and are long from forgotten.

“It will just become a crappie lake again, good.” No it will not happen again as nice of a fairy tale as that would be. To best explain it I will quote a document released by the MN DNR that truly sums it up the best. “The excellent 1995 crappie year class proved that, under optimal conditions, they can beat the odds. A combination of low predator abundance and optimal spawning and/or nursery conditions probably contributed to their success. Actively managing for crappie would require an attempt to duplicate the same 1995 conditions that existed in nature, an impossible undertaking.” Basically what they are saying is Upper Red Lake needs dead flat calm over several weeks with optimal temps and perfect water levels with correct purity quality to pull of another successful spawn. Many have heard of the “perfect storm”, well we need the “perfect calm” and calm is not a Red Lake trait to begin with. Sorry to say but the effortless value meal drive up is closed. Upper Red Lake is a fishing lake again, not a taking lake. The boom will move as it does every decade. Next Devils Lake may fire up, maybe a perch explosion on Mille Lacs or some other lake will make its way onto the pages of the “Good Old Days”.

Another fun comment I have heard is “Why should we spend all the states money only for the tribe to take all the fish”. Well I have covered this topic from one end to the other and I will leave it with two statements. First is take a look back to the stocking efforts, then take a look at whom paid how much. I bet it will set you back in your chair when you break the numbers down. I believe the states share was a tiny fraction of other types of funding going through the capital. I know for sure it is tiny compaired to the funds that are being put into the greater metro to make it look "more green". Second is the vision of semi-loads of fillets leaving the Red Lake Fisheries…how many fish can you haul in a couple thousand wheel houses and boat live wells every weekend for roughly 14-15 weeks a year? Right back to stones and glass houses again.

"Lets put a net across the line!" I also like the very popular theory of putting net across the lake or some form of division such as the Great Wall of China, it is hard for me to even keep a straight face when I am presented with this idea. First I’m guessing funding might be a bit tight for a net or dam almost ten miles long. Not to mention I would bet many anglers would have something to say when it becomes very obvious that the crappie that do show up in the winter spend their summers in deeper cool water basins in the western side of the lake, on the wrong side of the great wall. Then what happens when it is realized the tribal waters are the best waters of the lake as we quickly fish out our dishpan nursery on this side. Do we then take the wall down because the fishing is better on tribal waters? Grass is always greener, guess that applies to coontail and other aquatic vegetation also. Not to mention the lake is one delicately balanced eco system or bio mass, dividing it in half is not only going to disrupt the balance of the lake it will most likely destroy our side faster then a thousand nets ever will.

“Nobody is watching or keeping it in check.” Absolutely correct! Very few are watching the illegal harvest methods and black market/bootlegged fish sales that take place on both sides of the line. With the cuts in funding our current conservation officers have been put in fiscal restraints hampering the effectiveness of their job. Our wardens are understaffed, underfunded and fighting a losing battle. The tribe I can not say how their enforcement works as I do not know but I can tell you one thing; there is a huge amount of water and shoreline for a small amount of tribal law officers to monitor. Not to mention the statewide if not nationwide sale of illegal walleye fillets peddled by black market methods. This I feel is a very weak point and should be one of the first priorities on the agendas of items to rectify.

We have come to the crossroad we knew we would. We can handle this many ways as sportsmen and business owners. Shall we do as we did in the past and alienate our neighbors ending any hopes common ground or will we pull together and generate sensible and yet feasible solutions? For many Upper Red Lake is a place that they come to fish and netting jeopardizes that ritual and I understand the fears and contemptuous feelings it creates. As an individual, family member and community element directly connected to the lake I chose to hopefully fully understand what is at hand and what is to be before I set my business plan and associated actions.

A perfect example is the current scene on Upper Red Lake today. About ten anglers total on the north side of the lake. I was greeted with smiling anglers that caught crappies and perch all while catch and releasing walleyes and huge pike. Guess they did not read the latest printed instructions to stay away because the bite is dead. I do hope they get off the lake before the sky falls on them.

I understand articles can be very moving even if they only tell half of the story, so before a online lynch mob is formed lets make sure we have the facts lined up.

Personaly I will not be selling the guide boat or putting away the V-plows any time soon no matter how bold the headlines are printed. In fact I am going to load up the portable in few minutes and go see how the perch are doing up on the mineral humps.

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Good posts Kelly and Jonny! People need to remember when you point your finger at someone there are three fingers pointing back at you. There was plently of blame to go around on both sides during the last collapse just as there will be IFthe fishery declines again. I chose to be positive because focusing on the problem and not on solutions does not help the situation. I am hoping that there are too many people on both sides of the reservation line with a conscience that will not allow history to repeat itself.

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This isn't about netting. I think that ultimately what is driving this sentiment against the Red Lake Tribe is the fact that they do not allow ANY sportfishing on their side of the line by non-tribal members. No tribal licenses, nothing. I don't really care one way or the other (I enjoy all of the people and resort owners enough on Red that I would go there regardless of restrictions), I'm just observing on some of the back and forth I've seen on this issue.

Jonny and Kelly are right that the hysteria about the fish population is overblown - if anyone's livelihoods are linked to those fish, it's them. The DNR and the locals WILL NOT let the walleye population have another crash.

However the tribe is guilty of continuing this "us v. them" mentality alive by discriminating. Just because the tribe CAN do something does not mean it SHOULD do something.

A lot of the negative comments and feelings would disappear with one simple rule change IMO. Sure some backward folks would still have ill will, but we'll never change them with any amount of reason anyhow.

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There is hope. Try to understand that the 'moderators' have competed all their lives with the Indians for their livelihood the Walleye. They understand that hatred and greed is what killed the lake. They have worked with the tribe to bring the lake back to where it is now. Generations of Indians and locals, my family included have been raised to hate the other side of the line. They have seen past it.

Hatred breeds Greed and Greed fuels Hatred. Combined the two killed the lake. We are all guilty.

How many five gallon buckets of 14 to 15 inch Crappies did you take off the lake ?

Was your family's survival depending on those fish ?

How many "Gill Nets" of Crappies did the Indians sell ? ZERO

You want the freedom to spew hatred and kill the lake using this forum have at it.

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It is right in their Tribal Constitution that non bandmembers can not fish on their part of Upper or Lower Red Lakes. A person can buy a license to fish on their smaller lakes tho. From what I've heard northerns, bass and trout. I know that Brad Dokken from the Grand Forks Herald went fishing there and did a story about it. "Ogema" who used to post here was trying to start a guide business there. Maybe he'll chime in about it.

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Kelly -

You're right, it is their right. But as I said, CAN and SHOULD are very different things.

I would be interested in maybe checking out some of those smaller bodies of water though, always like to fish out of the way places.

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Kelly and Johnny, both very informative and well written posts as always.

(" in my opinion we might be running into a situation where we have too many fish for the forage base and growth rates are slowing" quote from Kelly P)

i would tend to agree with this statement. out of my 3 trips up to red lake this year i brought home 9 walleyes and 2 crappies and only 1 of the walleyes had anything in its stomach.

i would to thank you and the Hillmans for all of the hard work you do every year. cann't wait to get back up there next year. hope to see you around. good luck and stay safe

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I can respect the fact the rez needs to make a living but it would make more sense to open there side of the water to everyone. I haven't really heard anyone mention that idea? They could charge a licencse for there side of the water. I don't know a whole lot about running a fish farm but that seems to be the way alot of these restrauts and grocery stores get there fillets.

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In my previous life at FM I had a post about the existence of black market walleyes on Red 4 years ago.

It doesn't change the facts that the lake is in decline and will level off at just another MILLE Lacs, or Winni, or Leech or a thousand other less than average minnesota lakes due to overharvest by sportfisherman and netters.

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No it wouldn't. It would make sense to start like a guide service and allow members to guide out on their side of the lake though.

as far as walleye fishing, the lake is doing a lot better than it was even a few years ago. Do you think it was the Red Lakers that killed off all of the crappies too? The status of the fishery definitely reflects the people though, they got greedy when they started seeing the fish as only a source of money and lost the respect for the lake. I can only hope that everyone has learned their lesson and learned from what happend not too long ago. The greed that was shown, in my mind, is part of the reason there is so much animosity towards gill netting.

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The animosity isn't towards gill netting. It's towards "special rights" for groups of people. The band enjoys this kind of discourse. I hope next time my tax dollars don't go to bail out the tribe again. They're showing how much respect they have for the resource.

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that's why I said it was part of the reason, the other part of the reason is fairly obvious, you have just displayed it.

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Our share of the cost of restocking the walleyes was $28,000 a year. There were 3 stockings. A total of $84,000. A pretty small drop in the MN budget. Nobody "bailed out" the Red Lake Band as they paid a higher share then the State of MN. Plus the Red Lake Band runs their hatchery EVERY YEAR. The State has not run ours since I believe 1978 or 1979.

We have to remember that it is not our "right" to fish the Bands waters. We will have to be invited in. They read the fishing forums and follow them. The Band is a close knit community. When the Band is getting bashed on a Forum they all know it and that is their impression of white sportfishermen. For example if someone sees a woman they would like to date do they go up to her and call her names, tell her how ugly and dumb she is and then ask if she would like to go out on a date???????

Imagine that you are a 13 year old Band member at school sitting at the computor searching the internet. You're interested in sportfishing. You have never sportfished, you have never even met a white person that sportfished. You end up on a Forum where the Band is getting bashed. That is his first impression of white sportfishermen. They are saying bad things about his Band which means they are saying bad things about his community, his neighbors and his family. He will walk away from that computor thinking that white sportfishermen are not very friendly and he is really happy that they are not around his home.

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Good thoughts Kelly

I have a hard time arguing against these “special rights” of the Natives. They were of course negotiated as part of treaty that was agreed to by both sides. The whole European influx here and how that changed the Natives lives forever is a topic that I am hardly qualified to debate.

From everything I’ve read though, no matter how many fish are taken out of the lake X,Y,Z in the end, as a whole (not just fishing or hunting), it sure seems like the Native Americans got the short end of the deal.

Bottom line is that there needs to be compromise and level headedness to ensure that Red Lake is managed properly to sustain future generations. The lives of both depend on it.

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Any word yet as to whether or not the winter harvest hit 112,000 pounds?

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Plus the Red Lake Band runs their hatchery EVERY YEAR. The State has not run ours since I believe 1978 or 1979.

Is the state hatchery still in working order? I'm curious if a group sportsmen was willing to pick up the expenses and do the heavy lifting if this is an option.

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dtro hit the nail on the head with this

"From everything I’ve read though, no matter how many fish are taken out of the lake X,Y,Z in the end, as a whole (not just fishing or hunting), it sure seems like the Native Americans got the short end of the deal."

The white man has taken from the Native Americans as the white man moved across this country. The white man forced the Native Americans onto reservations and signed treaties with them. Let them have what has been agreed upon by both sides.

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I have another question got the guys UP THERE. How is it decided who pays what portion for the stocking and maintaining levels of walleye in Red? The band owns a good portion of the lake and can fish the whole lake, the portion available to the public is a much smaller chunk of water so how is it decided who pays for what?

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I think we know Kelly! I can't help remembering seeing the 5-miles of gill nets right on the line. The freezers on shore. The dead pike. Say good-by to the 40+ inchers. The dead birds. Sad news in my opinion.

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Our share of the cost of restocking the walleyes was $28,000 a year. There were 3 stockings. A total of $84,000. A pretty small drop in the MN budget. Nobody "bailed out" the Red Lake Band as they paid a higher share then the State of MN. Plus the Red Lake Band runs their hatchery EVERY YEAR. The State has not run ours since I believe 1978 or 1979.

We have to remember that it is not our "right" to fish the Bands waters. We will have to be invited in. They read the fishing forums and follow them. The Band is a close knit community. When the Band is getting bashed on a Forum they all know it and that is their impression of white sportfishermen. For example if someone sees a woman they would like to date do they go up to her and call her names, tell her how ugly and dumb she is and then ask if she would like to go out on a date???????

Imagine that you are a 13 year old Band member at school sitting at the computor searching the internet. You're interested in sportfishing. You have never sportfished, you have never even met a white person that sportfished. You end up on a Forum where the Band is getting bashed. That is his first impression of white sportfishermen. They are saying bad things about his Band which means they are saying bad things about his community, his neighbors and his family. He will walk away from that computor thinking that white sportfishermen are not very friendly and he is really happy that they are not around his home.

Kelly, your insight, common sense, and finger on the pulse beat of the local situation is uncanny! For someone who does not live your daily life and experiences, your wisdom is greatly appreciated!!! You couldn't have said it better!!
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I would doubt that we hit much over 1/2 of the allowable take for the winter. Jon will have a better idea of that when he gets in. He's welding plows back together right now as the next 2 days sound really, really bad for weather. I think the Band just barely hit 1/2 of the allowable take for the whole year. The slow fishing was lake wide.

It has been a long time since the Hatchery was in operation so it could be pretty spendy to get it going again. The DNR feels that here on the eastern side of shallow URL that the majority of the walleyes spawn on the rock piles out in the lake.

Who paid how much was negotiated before the stocking took place. I do not know what formula was used. The cost included a great deal of volunteer labor and boats on both sides of the Line.

As far as maintaining the walleye levels the MN DNR and Band DNR are sharing all data they have and meet regularly.

There are a lot of differences of opinion among Band Members about nets going back in the Lakes again also. One survey I saw from Band Members about 2 years ago was about 45% to 55%.

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I won't get into this subject beyond ONE question?

That being--WHO funds the Band? WHO funds their governing bodies? Their DNR? Therefore--WHO funds the band's management of the lake(s)/stocking/survey work etc.? Money source for ALL Band governing activity? Fair questions...what are the answers for the record?

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I would doubt that we hit much over 1/2 of the allowable take for the winter. Jon will have a better idea of that when he gets in. He's welding plows back together right now as the next 2 days sound really, really bad for weather.

Kelly is being nice about the plows...ya I ran my own plow over again, hate it when that happens. blush

As far as our total catch we are way behind in the numbers. I stopped in at the fisheries department last week and chatted with the boys and if my memory serves me correctly it was around the 80k mark. Every season we are seeing less and less anglers hours and less mass poundage caught. The hot walleye bite when the taking is easy such as May and early winter the hours and pounds are of the charts but the other seven fishable months the numbers are very very low. Once we sit down at the advisory meeting I will have the solid numbers from the state. Either way the count is nowhere near the safe harvest level or cap.

About the funding, yes it is tax dollars at work. Just like welfare across the state, road and bridge, parks and recreation, governor mansions, new polish at the capital, election recounts, a large chunk devoted to the study mating habits of bats and even those signs explaining you are at the boat ramp...placed at the ramp.

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"ya I ran my own plow over again"

Not as bad as when Jon was wee little kid and I caught an exposed sandbar with the V-Plow. I ran over my plow and the front 1/3 of my truck frame with the front axle, motor and 1/2 of my clutch attached to it. eek

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