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HOGEYE

My springer spaniel bit my daughter.

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BJB

If you hunt the dog and thus want to keep him as a hunter, waiy until the weather is warm and build a good dog house and use a cable runner until you can put in a exterior kennel.

The child and the dog need to be seperated now and in the future.

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BRULEDRIFTER

I said that because the dog did nothing wrong, really! The kid kept poking it and pulling on its ears and it finally had enough. It did what all dogs do, it nipped at the problem to tell it to knock it off! It's what they do to all other dogs when they are telling them enough. Unless it was a vicious bite, which it didn't sound like it was, it was simply going off instinct. The parents should have not been allowing the kid to do this, AT ALL! If one cannot enforce this behavior, it'll just happen again, and again, and again...... how many dogs will need to be killed?

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prov1900

I agree. Just don't go out and make a rash decision to execute your dog. Try the separation thing. 3 years olds shouldn't be left with any animal, cat/dog/whatever unattended. Don't kick yourself (as a parent) either. It is a huge learning process. I think this whole event will blow over, as long as you separate the dog from the child for the time it takes the child to learn how to respect the dog. If anyone has the answer on how to make a 3 year old listen, I am all ears. I have one now. (Luckily, he is very "shy" around our dog)

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caseymcq

If anyone has the answer on how to make a 3 year old listen, I am all ears. I have one now. (Luckily, he is very "shy" around our dog)

And if anyone has that anwser for a two-year old I'd pay good money for it. laughgrinwink

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Jackpine Rob

I've loved my dogs to death.

Never been faced with exactly this same situation, but had a close one with a young pup.

There's also no question that the dog would have a very short leash, while I figured out what to do, and my kid would be no where near the pooch until I was confident and knew for sure.

Our Old Dog in his later years slept in Jr.'s room, the two of them "protecting" one another. They were fast friends, and Jr. became comfortable with and accustomed to playing with the dog.

When the "pup" came on board after the Old Dog died, he had a puppy incident where he went after Jr.'s throat, and the next few days were nip and tuck as to whether the pup would survive the week. I was ready to put him down, if necessary.

The pup was being a pup. He was playing with Jr. like he would have played with his littermates, but the problem was that Jr. didn't have a tough hide and fur on his neck....

The pup spent a day segregated, while I contemplated things.

We went out into the yard, and I set it up to expose my neck and face while we were playing. Sure enough - he went for the kill, I thumped him royally, screaming and shouting and going absolutely berserk, not allowing him to get up before rolling him again. It was awful, and I felt like a monster during and afterwards.

It worked. Ben ended up being the most obedient and gentle family dog you could hope for, while still grabbing his fair share of ducks and partridge and pheasants.

Take the kid out of the equation. Set up the same situation. Don't take any prisoners if the dog reacts the same way.

BTW, the new pup (known as The Great Black Hope) is sleeping on my feet as I type this.

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2thepointsetters

Originally Posted By: Harmonica Bear
A dog should never bite a human. Period. Not in my pack. I'd remove the dog without question.

I totally agree! Love my dog but it would be gone.

HAHAHAHAHA.... A dog needs to defend it self. Since it cant talk, biting/growling is the only way it can.

Thats like saying you should never raise your voice.

You guys crack me up.

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fivebucks

2thepoint - if you want to let your dogs growl and bite kids thats fine with me. I don't have to pay your lawyer bills. This post is all about opinions and you don't need to ridicule someone else's opinion. I agree 100% that a dog should never bite a human, unless it is trained that way as a guard dog. That is my opinion and I would expect you to respect that opinion as I would respect your opinion that it is OK for a dog to bite a 3 year old.

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walleyes12

Well, I am going to go home afterwork and pull on my dogs ears and probably try to ride him, it will probably [PoorWordUsage] him off, hopefully he doesn't try to defend himself or I will have to put him down. Then when I am done with my dog, I will go pull my wifes ears, and hopefully she doesn't try to defend herself or I will have to put both of them down. I can't believe some of your posts. The dog got sick in tired of the parents letting the child abuse the dog. I hope your daughter is doing better, but like mentioned before do not get another dog till your daughter is old enough to understand that pulling on a dogs ears hurts.

If I was the dog, i would hope for a new home.

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pinkfloyd4ever

Easy decision: Get rid of the daughter.

1 - She would be much easier to find a new home for. After all, it wasn't her that did the biting.

2 - College is cheaper for dogs than it is daughters.

3 - I doubt some punk-looking teenager is ever gonna show up at your door to take your dog out on a date. If he does, you could just pull him aside and tell him how much the dog loves to have her ears played with.

Sorry ... it's a serious discussion, I know. But sometimes a little levity goes a long way.

good one pike!

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DaveT

You can tell the parents from the non parents in this thread. I am assuming the dog wasn't nailed to the floor when the kid was aggravating it. The dog needs to get up and leave if he doesn't like what's going on. I doubt that biting was the only option this dog had. He simply wasn't going to give up his space to a kid that he feels he's dominant over.

On a related note, I have a cop friend who has a canine officer living with his family. When the dog acted aggressively towards his daughter, he lifted the dog off the ground with the leash and a choke collar. When the dog passed out, he laid him on the ground and set his daughter on top of the dog. When the dog came to, he assumed the girl had done it to him and submitted to her from that point on. I don't know if that would work here or not but it's something to think about.

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nofishfisherman

You can tell the parents from the non parents in this thread. I am assuming the dog wasn't nailed to the floor when the kid was aggravating it. The dog needs to get up and leave if he doesn't like what's going on. I doubt that biting was the only option this dog had. He simply wasn't going to give up his space to a kid that he feels he's dominant over.

On a related note, I have a cop friend who has a canine officer living with his family. When the dog acted aggressively towards his daughter, he lifted the dog off the ground with the leash and a choke collar. When the dog passed out, he laid him on the ground and set his daughter on top of the dog. When the dog came to, he assumed the girl had done it to him and submitted to her from that point on. I don't know if that would work here or not but it's something to think about.

I have a hard time believing he was able to lift a full grow dog (likely a German Shepard) off the groud by the chain and hold it there until the dog finally passed out from lack of oxygen. It would also likely kill the dog. I won't even go into the animal cruelty aspects as I'm already sure you realize that it could very well be considered criminal in nature. If a dog simply shows aggression that is no excuse for choking it until it passes out. Hopefully your friend is just talking big.

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Dave D

I just went through this with my 3.5 year old Rott and my 1.5 year old son. While my Rott never bit my son she did have some territorial aggression and in the end we made the decision to put the dog down even though we loved her and she was a great dog.

My .02. If you have the uneasy feeling in your stomach you know what the right decision is. Next time it might not just be some glue on the cheek. You can't watch the dog and the kid 100% of the time. If something happened you will never forgive yourself.

On another side. We recently picked up another dog, a basset hound puppy from a reputable breeder and wouldn't you know it, he caught my little guy on the cheek(1/2" cut) and off the the ER we went. The big difference here is this happened during the two of them playing over a balloon and the pup went for the balloon and caught cheek. No stitches and no glue just some meds and TLC. Difference here was to young ones playing vs. the aggression we dealt with our Rott.

Good luck with your choice, you will do what you know it right.

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PierBridge

If the Dog can still hunt Upland Game. I'd be willing to take it during the Hunting seasons......

I vote the dog live's!

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CrappieFshr651

Yep i say find it a new home too. You will probably have issues in the future now that the dog knows he can bite when being harrassed, but there's absolutely no reason the animal should die because a child was pulling on it's ears and it had enough. Just about any dog would do that to any person after a while. Best thing to do is find a new home without small children. I'd be furious to hear this dog was euthanized.

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Steve Foss

Originally Posted By: DaveT
I have a cop friend who has a canine officer living with his family. When the dog acted aggressively towards his daughter, he lifted the dog off the ground with the leash and a choke collar. When the dog passed out, he laid him on the ground and set his daughter on top of the dog. When the dog came to, he assumed the girl had done it to him and submitted to her from that point on. I don't know if that would work here or not but it's something to think about.

I have a hard time believing he was able to lift a full grow dog (likely a German Shepard) off the groud by the chain and hold it there until the dog finally passed out from lack of oxygen. It would also likely kill the dog. I won't even go into the animal cruelty aspects as I'm already sure you realize that it could very well be considered criminal in nature. If a dog simply shows aggression that is no excuse for choking it until it passes out. Hopefully your friend is just talking big.

This is a bit more intense than most, but is still a fairly typical situation between a canine officer and his dog. All dogs are pack animals and need to know who is in charge. Most police dogs have a strong nature. They need it to do their jobs effectively. It takes the right kind of cop to be a canine cop, to be sensitive to what messages the dog is delivering, but also in charge of the dog. For most canine cops/dogs, every now and then you really have to show those dogs who is boss, and that often involves flipping them up in the air, slamming them down on the ground on their backs and holding them there until your dominant status is reinforced. Not everyone has the ability to do that to a dog.

Also, if it's a male German shepherd dog weighing about 100 pounds, any fairly strong man can suspend it in the air by using both arms for the time it takes for the dog to lose consciousness.

Cruel? Of course, by our standards. By a dog's standards? Not cruel at all. In fact, normal pack dominance behavior needed by a strong-willed dog to know where he stands in the pack. Dogs that are content being subservient rarely, often never, need that type of treatment. We humans tend to impose our standards on all creatures around us because we are arrogant, and it's not always best for the animal to be treated like a person.

A dog IS a dog, not a person.

Just my long-winded IMO. smilesmile

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2thepointsetters

2thepoint - if you want to let your dogs growl and bite kids thats fine with me. I don't have to pay your lawyer bills. This post is all about opinions and you don't need to ridicule someone else's opinion. I agree 100% that a dog should never bite a human, unless it is trained that way as a guard dog. That is my opinion and I would expect you to respect that opinion as I would respect your opinion that it is OK for a dog to bite a 3 year old.

HAHAHAHAHA... Ten thousand comedians out of a job and your trying to compete with them. Good luck...

Where did I say it was a ok for dogs to bite kids? (please find and quote that for me)

Just becasue I dont agree with putting the dog down, doesn't mean I am for letting kids get bit. What if the another kid bit the kid? Then we put the kid down because it might grow to be aggressive.

(and by the way my dogs put up very well with kids and will not bite so no lawyer will be needed)

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2thepointsetters

Well, I am going to go home afterwork and pull on my dogs ears and probably try to ride him, it will probably [PoorWordUsage] him off, hopefully he doesn't try to defend himself or I will have to put him down. Then when I am done with my dog, I will go pull my wifes ears, and hopefully she doesn't try to defend herself or I will have to put both of them down. I can't believe some of your posts. The dog got sick in tired of the parents letting the child abuse the dog. I hope your daughter is doing better, but like mentioned before do not get another dog till your daughter is old enough to understand that pulling on a dogs ears hurts.

If I was the dog, i would hope for a new home.

Very well put. I agree 100%

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caseymcq

I am a parent and I have two dogs. My daughter is not allowed to abuse the dogs. The dogs are not allowed to abuse my daughter. If any of them step out of line on this rule they are dealt with accordingly.

I still stand by saying the dog is not to blame in this situation. The growls were the dogs way of saying it did not like the treatment it was getting. There should have been some corrective action on both the part of the dog and the kid. Should have let the dog know it wasn't acceptable to act aggressively towards the kid and should have let the kid know it wasn't acceptable to abuse the dog.

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caseymcq

I have a cop friend who has a canine officer living with his family. When the dog acted aggressively towards his daughter, he lifted the dog off the ground with the leash and a choke collar. When the dog passed out...

WOW, maybe a dog of that type shouldn't be with kids. First and foremost, I would hate to see the kid get hurt. I would also hate to see tens of thousands of tax payers dollars go down the toilet if the dog would have died because of the bone-headed way that guy dealt with it.

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jigman

If you pulled on your wife's ears and she said stop and you kept it up what would you think she would do .if your abusing a animal it will react same as any human being. daughter needs to be supervised around any animal at the age of three and if people were around at the time should of stopped her .from pulling on the ears. im surat three she doesn't under stand that well and a three year old should be supervised around any, or all situation. There in a learning stage. IM SURE THE DOG HAS BEEN FINE UP TILL THIS POINT OF EAR PULLING and for the domination of pack animal if your being hurt as pulling her ears sooner our latter you'll react. also a springer spaniels back cant hold the weight of a 3 yer old what 36 to 60 lb could do serious harm to the dogs back and if the dogs 8 and no problem for those years just supervise the kid

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HOGEYE

I appreciate everyones opinions and feed back. As far as the judgements go... I'll leave those to GOD.

Anyways, I have decided to keep the dog and my daughter. The dog is not by any means a dangerous dog. His ears were, and still are infected, and are getting better with the meds and continuous cleansing.

The occurance was the parents/my fault. It was hard to hear at first, but I am now in full agreement. It was a nip and not a dog in fury. The dog is going to stay (no execution!)and we the parents have learned our lesson. The distance will be kept and more dicipline will be given to daughter and dog. We will allow them more time togethor after my daughter understands better.

By the way; my wife was right there when it happend and punished the dog appropriately. The warnings were there the whole time and we failed to intervene.

Also, for what it is worth, we have more than 1 dog. Lesson is learned and we will make sure that it does not happen again. My garage is heated and I am installing a kennel and door flap to ensure continued seperation.

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goose89

Thanks for the update Hogeye! You sure got alot of good insight from a wide range of views. Glad to hear you were able to make a decision, and I think you made the right one. Best wishes in the future.

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2thepointsetters

I appreciate everyones opinions and feed back. As far as the judgements go... I'll leave those to GOD.

Anyways, I have decided to keep the dog and my daughter. The dog is not by any means a dangerous dog. His ears were, and still are infected, and are getting better with the meds and continuous cleansing.

The occurance was the parents/my fault. It was hard to hear at first, but I am now in full agreement. It was a nip and not a dog in fury. The dog is going to stay (no execution!)and we the parents have learned our lesson. The distance will be kept and more dicipline will be given to daughter and dog. We will allow them more time togethor after my daughter understands better.

By the way; my wife was right there when it happend and punished the dog appropriately. The warnings were there the whole time and we failed to intervene.

Also, for what it is worth, we have more than 1 dog. Lesson is learned and we will make sure that it does not happen again. My garage is heated and I am installing a kennel and door flap to ensure continued seperation.

Sounds like a great plan. Hopefully it works out for dogs and kids alike.

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walleyes12

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BeastLight

Whatever you end up doing will be the right decision because there is no correct answer to the problem, "Is now a good time to bring up abortion."

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  • Your Responses - Share & Have Fun :)

    • leech~~
      I know I know silly me. I keep going back to the intent and verbiage of the Origin treaty.  Yeah know the whole right to Hunt and fish within the Ceded territory for subsistence-thing.   Words that are still used today in their Regs below.  We both know the days of the canoe and torch light are long gone and eating fish for subsistence (food) has been replaced from Lbs to amount of cash! Is the Fishery a big money maker that the Band can live off of probably not, do they need to live off Walleye for food anymore probably not.  Is the Seven Clans Casino helping to fill the Fisheries void of days gone by?  Dang right skippy!  😉      But, it would be interesting to build your imaginary lake wall and see what happens in 10 years under two different management styles!  😄   Open-Water Spearing and Netting Regulations: 1837 Ceded Territory in Minnesota.   "Lakes other than Mille Lacs. Net fisheries in lakes other than Mille Lacs are intended to provide opportunity for subsistence harvest of walleye; so muskellunge and sturgeon may not be kept, nor can northern pike in excess of the bag limit, nor can commercial nets be set. Subsistence gillnetting is allowed from June 1 to March 1 in any lake that is 1,000 acres or larger and in all lakes identified in 9.08(2) of the Model Code. In lakes 1,000 acres or larger, the allowable mesh sizes (bar) are 1.5 to 1.75 inches. In identified lakes under 1,000 acres, only 1.75 inch mesh (bar) may be used. Nets may be up to 100 feet in length and 4 feet deep"
    • roony
      I know what you mean eyeguy but if you cry wolf too often people don't pay much attention any more. Any time you are on the ice, in a boat, or in the woods you have to use good judgement, it's just that simple. 
    • eyeguy 54
      all ice fishermen are not as brilliant as you guys. I like it when they make announcements.  nothing wrong with giving out advice when it's the advice givers that end up saving lives when c.r.a.p happens. 
    • roony
      Must comply with Nanny State.
    • roony
      Must Kill Smallmouth!
    • Xplorer
      No idea where you get this idea of subsistence, that has never been a condition of this agreement. Lets put it in perspective since you seem to be hung up on the fact that there are 5873 tribe members profiting from this commercial fishery. If the tribe makes a profit of $5 per pound of walleye harvested, and they harvest their entire 1 million pounds of walleye, that will produce a net yearly profit of exactly $852 per tribe member per year......... Yea that's livin' high off the hog. Family of 4, well that gets you a whole $3408 for the year.   Question for ya Leech..... they put a concrete wall on the rez line thru the lake this spring.  Which side gets fished out first (with no additional restrictions added to lower harvest for either side), State side or Tribe side?   
    • side_laker
      Pelican Has lots of bucket mouth and small mouth in it. If your interested in a resort in the lake highly recommend Joe over at Deer Lodge
    • iiccee63
      Are you serious??? Lakes are like people....they are all different. The DNR making a blanket statement like that is what they have to do. The lakes I give ice reports I know like the back of my hand. Meaning, I watch how they freeze up every single year. Like the St. Croix...I know how it freezes, where the trouble spots are typically ect. because I have fished it on and off since 86'. DNR has no clue what's going on the lakes I fish.    
    • leech~~
      Same with Pheasants. Not native but treated as so with a season and stamp costs. I would love to be able to fish more Lakers in other lakes then just a few I have to drive hours up to.
    • Sculpin
      Please also convey your collective ideas to the DNR relative to Mille Lacs lake, another fishery inundated with bass, and totally out of whack relative to the walleye population. The DNR would have you believe that the primary forage of small mouth bass is crayfish. When asked what they eat in the winter, you are met with a blank stare, and told there needs to be a study on that. I've caught a ton of smallies, but never once on a crayfish, or an imitation, but I'm sure they work. Leeches, crawlers, senkos, redtails, suckers, every crankbait imaginable, surface baits, buzzbaits, spinner baits.  The protection of the smallmouth fishery is driven by political pressure, the Smallmouth Alliance, folks like the Linders, tournament organizers, and everyone else who can convince the DNR they make for a great fishery. INVASIVES    
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