Why is baiting illegal here?

[Musky Buck]

Because it is the easiest way to draw deer into your property to get the desired result. Not all properties are equal, some the carrying capacity to hold deer is almost nill. So if I add 50 pounds of shell corn I might get to bloody my knife.

[Big Dave2]

Why does a hunter/person need to bait deer???????????????????????????????????????????? Are they not a hunter, why do you need to bait? Must not be a good hunter, just like to shoot huh?

Actually if you must know, I'm a terrible hunter

[Musky Buck]

I love this topic, to me it is so simple, baiting is not needed in MN. We get over 100 days to bow hunt, 9-16 days of rifle,shotgun,muzzleloader, another 16 days of Muzzleloader hunting, they have to survive cars,trucks,semi's. Winter is always an ace up the sleeve, we are so do for a bad one, wolves, poaching, fawn mortality, unknown causes, my grandpa's haying equipment have gotten a few, and roughly 1/3 of all of our deer are recycled each season. I think Minnesota is doing fine, about 1 out of 3 tag a deer every year, those are pretty decent odds. If we all got a deer within 2 seasons better check my math but they would all be dead. Is there about 550,000 rifle season hunters ? Roughly 50,000 bow hunters, same about maybe more now for muzzleloader season with rifle hunters able to buy a musket tag if unsuccessful Times 2 just rifle hunters and you get 1.1 million and we have about 1.1 million animals in MN. Of course does would have fawns but I think we better be careful what we wish for, we decimate the herd too much with a nasty winter and ...........oh boy. Sure this is hypothetical, but we better leave well enough alone. When I uncork a bottle of wine grandma comes runnin, when I feed the cows they come a runnin, when some people bait deer they come a runnin, we have enough things helping the average hunter nowaday, lets leave a deer's stomach out of it and show other legal baiting states that we are trying to cling to some form of ethical hunting, if you are a baiter I would guess you cheat at checkers or cards or whatever you can scam away with, it's just the nature of the beast, to illegal MN baiters I bet your deer are wondering hey, what happened to the corn that was surfacing in my woods, now I have to travel great distances to fill my tummy in the cold woods, thanks a lot, and hey why are these gut piles so close to where you used to feed us ? Couldn't you have the decency to drag us off a ways further from the pile ? LOL, Take care all and shoot that smoke pole straight, new forum but I saw a musket hunter coming out to the road and I thought what he just unclipped a scope off his gun, how many are doing that ? How accurate is that gun doing that ?

[Bear55]

Nice post Musky I feel the same way, legalized baiting would only make things worse. I think most of us agree that baiting is not what we want in our state. Some people like to blur the lines between baiting and food plots so part of this thread went in a different direction but I am very happy to know baiting is illegal here and they are starting to crack down on it.

[Musky Buck]

I think a little to has to do with urban sprawl and rural sprawl. In 1983 we hunted many areas, now some of these are homes, black top and asphalt. We all have areas we used to hunt that are no longer huntable, the old school dairy farms many have been busted up into smaller parcels for hunting mainly, everyone is more clustered together and we have 5.2 million people now in our state, wisc. has 5.6, N.Dakota 640,000, S.Dakota has 800,000, Iowa has 3 million people. Now a lot of us have lost grandparents that taught us the ropes and they are being replaced with people that didn't grow up with hunting being the most important time of the year. Of course this isn't true for everyone. Like a deer in 10 feet of snow, they will travel the easiest path, same with some hunters, in our high speed fast easy free world, they want to travel the easiest path and that is called baiting. Forget everything else that goes into hunting, scouting, weather, pruning shooting lanes, setting up an extra stand because once pressured you catch glimpses of deer in the super thick cover, analyzing the section you hunt in for where the likely food source(s) will be once November hits, wind direction and how to approach your stand, analyzing rubs,scrapes,trails, every little trick you can use to increase your chances of success, when I used to hand feed deer at the walker deer park as soon as I turned the crank for corn the animals came a runnin, good luck musket guys !

[PEATMOSS]

To answer the original question, baiting is illegal because of an arbitrary line drawn in the sand by lawmakers and the DNR.

In Minnesota, you can chop out an acre in the middle of a pine forest, plant corn and put up a fence around it. You can remove the fence a week or two before the season begins and legally hunt over it. But, if you pick a couple ears and take it 100 yards away and drop it on the ground, you're baiting.

IMHO, "hunting" is different for everyone. What is ethical to some, may not be to others. Laws should be grounded in sound biological practices with an emphasis on managing the resource, not dictating ethics. As long as recreational feeding of deer is legal,it's hard to push the idea that baiting for a couple weeks is harming the resource.

Further, I don't think anyone sitting in an enclosed heated stand, over a 1 acre plot of turnips and rapeseed should be pointing fingers at anyone. If the state is not going to legalize baiting, it should be treated as a nuisance with a small fine, not hundreds of bucks and the loss of a thousand dollar rifle.

[vister]

exactly my point peatmoss. The guys who sit in elevated insulated and heated box stands are at a big time advantage to those who hang from a tree in their stand like myself when its frigid out. but they spent the time and money on them, so so be it. just like i spend the time and money on food plots. seems like a lot of people on this thread are ripping guys like myself apart limb by limb for having food plots out there. probably the same ones watching tv, making soup and coffee, or reading a magazine in their heated stand until they have to open a window to take a shot.

[Big Dave2]

Well stated peatmoss.

[UdeLakeTom]

My 75 year old brother uses a heated stand. No TV, and usually only on days like the windy opener this year, or when it is 25 or colder. Does that make him a bad hunter?? In my opinion, only warmer. We have yet to see a deer during the season near the food plots, and they are set up along trails between the woods. 12 deer there all summer long, and then only one even close to the food plot when the season opened. It could be that there are years when some hunters just are not supposed to see deer. Baiting is illegal, just like driving 80 mph is. Some will do it, just because they can.

Does that make it right, not really, but they will get away with it, for awhile.

The next question should be...how much bait would you put down if it was legal??? 10 bushels, a dump truck full?? What if the neighbor puts down oats, do you put down apples and corn?

[Big Dave2]

I'm sure it will never be legal to bait here in MN again but if it were I am sure also that there would be restrictions placed concerning the amount of bait that can be used. So the answer to the above question would be, the most allowed by law.

So, is the answer to the original posters question that baiting works too well and therefore too many deer would then be shot? I could live with that answer.

[Musky Buck]

That is the answer Dave, especially if allowed for bow,gun,musket seasons. Baiting would get ugly and so would the slaughter, especially during a colder than average gun/musket season where they would really be on the pile. Here's all the proof I needed. Neighbors 160 acres, 80 is standing irrigated corn, 80 is woods/willow/swamp. I can rifle/musket hunt the land alone and have for 10 years. A group of 4 guys bow hunt till rifle and then again inbetween and after the musket season. I took a different route from my lone ladder stand in the swamp to look for buck sign around Oct. 15th, found 3 of the bow stands and 10-15 yards from each was about 50 pounds of shell corn within about 50-100 yards from the standing corn field. I thought I'm thankful there were no gut piles. Uptown I saw the one guys wife, I said how are the guys doing bowhunting ? She said excellent like the past few years, she said they have got 9 so far with 11 tags to go, I am aware they have taken more off the corn piles as I saw them 4 wheelering out another deer just after rifle season and how many have they shot so far on the bait ? 10 for sure and maybe more and I bet their rifle stands 10 miles away on their own property are baited as well. Now why did so many deer go to the bait piles over irrigated standing corn ? I guess that's the question at hand. What stunk is my conscience wouldn't let me hunt that baited land so I went elsewhere this year. These baiters are extremely prominent citizens in our community and reveered bow hunters, what do ya do ?

[Musky Buck]

Why no gut piles, they don't want to attract any attention to where they are baiting, they drag them to the gravel road with 4 wheelers and gut them in their closed down garage doors and dump the goods later. These are people that own a meat company, why would they want that many deer ?

[Musky Buck]

Which leads into some would bait for the shooting part of it and others for the meat. It's hard to speculate but I think baiting would still benefit the have's and have nots. If you have quality land with a good deer carrying capacity you'd just be hogging up the deer anyway and they'd travel less off your property to others with average land meaning you know how good some woods look until the leaves fall off, then it's too thin to hold deer. The have's could really control deer movement even more with bait. My previous bow story really opened my eyes to what baiting can do even with a prime standing corn field so close, yet the deer chose the already shelled variety.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Makes perfect sense.....

Less digestion = less energy used!

[jltimm]

I'am still hearing about people around my property baiting/feeding deer. So far it's been three people that I know of, one of them got caught (thank you game warden) the other two didn't.... YET. Next year I WILL go out of my way to turn in anyone that is using bait or feeding deer.I have hunted this land for 8 years and let every little buck go just so these people could put out their bait and shoot them! I'am so pi$$ed off I would like to put out a steak and shoot the baiters that come into it! Friggin wanta be hunters!

[Musky Buck]

It's simply too effective, it's why we can't bait waterfowl, I'd still like to hear more from Wisc. hunters on the pro's and con's and if they hunted before baiting to how things are today. Picture that bait pile this morning for a muzzy hunter being about 10 degrees, I'm picturing a guy in a big heated box stand with windows watching 100 pounds of shell corn deep off any road.

[Flatlander]

It's simply too effective, it's why we can't bait waterfowl, I'd still like to hear more from Wisc. hunters on the pro's and con's and if they hunted before baiting to how things are today. Picture that bait pile this morning for a muzzy hunter being about 10 degrees, I'm picturing a guy in a big heated box stand with windows watching 100 pounds of shell corn deep off any road.

You're making some pretty big assumptions there. I rifle hunt back home, about 35 miles south of Hurley. I won't bait, but I have buddies that do. My parents neighbor had a trail cam over his bait pile for almost 2 months before rifle season. He had 8 different bucks on it, including a nice 10 at 1:52 PM on Nov. 8th. He stretches the 2 gallon limit, as I suspect a lot of other guys do.

Well, my baiting buddy figured on a real nice season. Get his climber up in his tree overlooking his bait pile, kick back and try to decide which of these bucks to shoot.

He sat all day Sat. and most of Sun. He had 2 buddies up from down south, hunting within a 1/4 mile of his stand and there were the 2 neighbor brothers hunting about a half mile away.

He saw 1 fawn the entire opening weekend. His buddies saw nothing and one of the neighbor brothers passed on a basket 8. This shows just how effective baiting is.

I hunt my godmother's land. No bait, no big permanent stands, just my climber and my book. I had over a dozen deer, including one possible buck(never did see his head), walk within 60 yards of me.

So, to make my short post long and monotonous, once the shooting starts, I don't think baitng makes any difference. I could see it affecting the archery season deer a bit, but I just don't think it does anything once the lead starts flying.

[Bear55]

Its probably not fair to compare the states, I think after so many years the Wisconsin deer are use to baiting and only visit a bait pile after dark. The older smarter deer are can pattern a hunter, especially if they are not careful about scent and the wind.

In Minnesota the deer are not use to bait piles everywhere and its first come first serve. Now you could say some day MN could be like WI so what is the big deal but I would have to have to go down that road. If you can't get a deer without bait you probably shouldn't be in the woods any way.

[Musky Buck]

No wonder flatlander, you guys jumped these deer out of the area trying to get set up on your stands, older bucks are wiser and gave you guys the slip, big time, and if you have that many guys sitting 300 yards apart with any kind of a wind your whole area is all scented up, you have too much scent in your area, this buddy and that buddy and how do you get to your stand on a calm morning when the pile is ? far from your perch, those deer heard the herd of hunters and busted into nocturnal nighttimers.

[Musky Buck]

Yes, hunt grandma's alone and of course you saw deer, same for me I hunt alone see way more deer, hunt with a group and we see squat unless we organize a push.

[Musky Buck]

Hey Flatlander, I apologize, could you post how baiting works in Wisc. meaning can you bait from beginning of bow season to the end, how about rifle/musket and how much bait and is the whole state able to be baited or are some areas off limits. Are any bait(s) illegal to use or is there any other stipulations. What percent of guys roughly do bait ? I hear ya that nothing is a 100% guarantee and I have posted on here that baiting might really make them more nocturnal, less travel time to the pile, guaranteed food source, etc. Deer know that night time is there safest time. Human scent is the biggest factor in MN where I hunt, whether it's boot tracks they come across or the wind carrying it, they know for the most part after opening day, that we are present unless you have large acreage. The rut is our bait! Just a quick odd ? Can people bait caribou, elk, moose, pronghorn,mule deer ? If not what's the deal with Whitetailed deer ? I could see like Wisc. overpopulation but in MN with 1 hunters for every 2 deer in the state i think we have good balance, yes some pockets are out of whack but overall aren't we doing alright, in a poor weather year like this year they are predicting a top ten all time kill, where or how much higher do we go in deer taken ?

[Flatlander]

No wonder flatlander, you guys jumped these deer out of the area trying to get set up on your stands, older bucks are wiser and gave you guys the slip, big time, and if you have that many guys sitting 300 yards apart with any kind of a wind your whole area is all scented up, you have too much scent in your area, this buddy and that buddy and how do you get to your stand on a calm morning when the pile is ? far from your perch, those deer heard the herd of hunters and busted into nocturnal nighttimers.

[Musky Buck]

Interesting, not sure why or what is up then flatlander, 1 quick one about scent is I have to wear hip boots for a 1/4 mile, water up to my knees and beyond in spots, I go through mud,water etc. I walked over to check a ground scrape, 1/2 hour before legal shooting light, with my flashlight, walked back to my stand and put on my sorels, about 15 minutes into legal shooting a doe came by and just freaked when she cut my trail by the scrape, now wearing hip boots through swamp,mud,water,etc. How could I leave any scent on the walk to and from the scrape, spent about 10 seconds by it and yet each deer that cut my trail froze and winded it and looked straight at me, how could they smell my boot tracks ? Take care and shoot it straight guys, MB

[Tipup101]

Deer have that sixth sense. I've had that same problem but once I started changing my boots at the bank I had no problems. I think the river mud spooks them. Like its in the wrong place. That or a coyote checked that scrape and the deer caught his trail. Cause i've read that coyotes will check scrapes to help pick up the scent of a deer.

[Musky Buck]

Few if any coyotes in my area, they are slaughtered by coon hounds and hunters since the 50's so it's that water/mud being on the highground area, I watched my best friend trap fox for years and he wore chest waders at his sets to eliminate scent and here I figured doing the same would help against a deer's nose but it hasn't. They cut my boot tracks and they are on high alert, especially mature does. I've tried scents and etc. Walking through that mud for a 1/2 hour and water over the knees just doesn't seem to help, they still for the most part peg the smell and peg where I'm at.

[goblueM]

meh, deer are gonna smell you no matter what. My uncle's buddy had all his scent lok stuff on and had been paranoid with everything. Rubber boots and all - walked down a while and my uncle pulled out his year old pup and he tracked him down in no time. Animals will smell you, you can just hope to reduce your scent and play the wind right.

I think its a waste of money to spend lots of $$ on scent-elminating products. Just put a little longer into scouting and spend your money elsewhere

[Bear55]

I also bought into the whole scentlock thing a while back, still got busted by mature deer. I still shower and practice strict scent elemination just so I am not leaving a ton of scent everywhere and if I can manage not to spook as many deer as possible it just might give me that little edge to get a buck in close for a shot. I firmy believe no matter what you do there is no fooling a mature buck or doe.

[Musky Buck]

Right on guys, is that why you see the 99% effective commercials. That 1 % is much more than that, leaves the window open a crack. Doe and fawn came out of standing corn Saturday night, cut my tracks in the snow and the momma really got jumpy, pegged me immediately, I wish I could just hover above ground to get to where i go.