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CFD200

Confirmed EIC

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CFD200

I received the suspected confirmation that my dog has two mutated genes (affected for EIC) on Friday. I imagine I really ruined the day for the kennel owner of the sire when I informed them. Mine had been the first offspring reported affected. I had previously notified the dam owner also to check if any of the litter mates had been affected. It will be good when a publicly available test is out. I was pheasant hunting this weekend. It was fortunate that the dog did not run into enough scent at one time to bring on the episode. An EIC episode seems to only happen when there is "lots" of birds at one time. So I think my dog is only mildly affected. A woman at work has a lab that can be affected if there is lots of kids around.

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LABS4ME

Sorry to hear that CFD. I know you suspected it, and sometimes knowing for sure makes it easier to live with. Good thing notifying the breeder and hopefully they use that informtion in regards to future breeding(s).

Good Luck in the future with your dog. Here's hoping with some modifications to the way you hunt, you can still get some duty out of her. I imagine an English Cocker may be back in your sites(?). If I remember correctly you had Cockers prior to this lab... correct?

Good Luck!

Ken

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311Hemi

CFD.....sorry to hear that. The good thing is that it sounds like a lot of dogs grow out of it as they calm down a bit......although not all the time.

The dog I know of that has also been tested as affected sounds very similar to yours, and is mildly affected. It has collapsed about 3-4 times in it's life. Two of those were when A LOT of scent and birds were present and it was the dogs first hunt of the day. I have found that once a dog tires a bit they don't work quite as hard the episodes do not appear. This dog hunts most weekends throughout the fall and has only had one episode this year.

It sounds like you should have no problems hunting the dog.....but will have to watch for the onset of an episode.

Can you email me at z***achej1 at hotmail (Contact Us Please) com

Remove the *** from my name.

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CFD200

Thanks for your thoughts. I have probably had her pheasant hunting 7 full days this fall so far and she has had 3 episodes. Two were in the same day, one in the AM and one in the PM. She seems to recover in about 10 minutes. Some day they may have a proven treatment. Labs, I did have two English Cockers before this lab. Since I only have one dog at a time it will be a while with this lab. I was looking at Weimaraner before my wife purchased the lab. I imagine I will have at least one more dog after this one in my life. Who knows what breed I will go with at that time? What I enjoy most out of pheasant hunting is watching the dog work. I will just have to watch this lab more closely.

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dustin85

What is EIC ?

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LABS4ME

Exercised Induced Collapse. Nasty, nasty stuff. It is a fairly new disease in retrievers and it's in a couple of very prominant field lines.

Basically a dog collapses from too much excitement or too much exercise. It is not pleasant to watch.

We had a pretty long thread on in a couple of weeks ago. I believe Hemi patched a thread to a video of it.

Good Luck!

Ken

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dogs

Would you folks that have a dog afflicted by EIC send me a pedigree? Or those that know of dogs with EIC amd their blood lines shoot me the info? I realise to some this is taken as unreliable gossip, but I dont see it this way. I have been around Labs for 25 years now and once bred to a NFC dog that was a myopathy carrier and the owner never disclosed to me that fact. EIC sounds like what used to called excersised induced hyperthermia in the late 80s early 90s. I am looking for a pup and would appreciate the info. I am not going run around screaming so&so is throwing EIC pups because so&so said it, just would like to consider some lines. Email is

weenugg at msn.(Contact Us Please). thanks in advance.

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duckbuster

Some of the Lean Mac stuff would be one.

1st hand knowledge here so please don't tear me down for pointing the finger at such a high class, top of the line stud.

Just a fact is all.

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dogs

Thanks Duck

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NELS-BELLS

My buddy is concerned that his 14 mos. old lab has this. The dog is fine and normal until he encounters some birds and gets all worked up. Then he starts walking like he is drunk. My buddy calms him down and gives him some water, 20 minutes later he is fine and ready to go again.

He called his vet and the vet said that she didn't think that there was a test for it. I assume that this is different then CNM, although both involve genetics. Is there a website that a person might check out for more info on EIC?

Nels

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JDM

Check out a thread that I started called "hip displaysia?" about a month ago. There is some good information in there.

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NELS-BELLS

Quote:

I received the suspected confirmation that my dog has two mutated genes (affected for EIC) on Friday.


CFD200 -

How did you get a confirmation on your dog? My buddy has talked to 2 vets and also done some research on the internet and so far he has found nothing saying that there is a way to test for EIC.

Nels

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311Hemi

I can get you the contact info...email me at: zach****ej1 at hotmail . com

Remove the **** from my email address.

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CFD200

I had the test done by the U of M. I heard this morning that they are not doing testing any longer until about Jan or Feb which might be the time that a public test may be available?

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JDM

Interesting side note - my dog, whom I suspect has EIC, hunted all day in South Dakota Saturday with no issues. It was -10 degrees in the morning and there was around 10 inches of snow. He hunted hard all day and never had an issue, which leads me to believe that air temperature is part of the equation - at least for my dog. About a month ago, I changed his food to the new Science Diet performance food with very high fat and protien content. This seems to help with his stamina and energy level. I am also giving him food in the morning before the hunt.

I have not had my dog actually tested yet, but he has all of the classic symptoms. On two cold weather, late season trips, he hasn't had one episode.

I am going to have him nuetured after hunting season is complete as I have read that some people report some improvement after the procedure. I also don't want him to pass this gene to a next generation.

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311Hemi

Some recent info from Katie Minor

Quote:

Posted by Katie Minor this week on RTF indicating there are stress/excitement trigger points that account for collapse in those that inherit 2 copies of the gene.

"From the original physiology study:

I believe that 18 dogs were originally included as EIC affected dogs. Four of these were thrown out due to other health problems.

14 completed the physiology study.

Of these 14 dogs, 13 had two copies of the likely EIC mutation, 1 was clear. The clear dog's parents were also tested for the mutation, and they were clear as well.

As this disorder was a diagnosis of exclusion, it is possible that this dog had experienced collapse from another undiagnosed cause.

As for the math, I think some of you had it right. If there is a 40% chance that your dog is a carrier and a 40% chance of breeding to another carrier, that is about 16% of all breedings. From that 16% about 25% of those pups will be affected, 4%.

From results that we have observed so far, in the dogs used for field trials or game hunting, if the dog has two copies of the mutation, between 85-90% will have at least one episode of EIC in their lifetime. The collapse is triggered when the dog becomes overwhelmed by the stress/excitement of the situation. EIC is also seen in conformation labs, but it appears that the amount of dogs with two copies of the mutation that collapse is not as high. No, the mutation does not skip generations. It is passed down parent to offspring.

We did have dogs that were submitted as "affected" that turned out to be clear, and collapsing from another cause that presents the same. We had always know that this would be the case, as there was not much information available to come up with a diagnosis of EIC. In our study, we had 101 dogs that had strong evidence of EIC based on the description of the collapse (rear limbs affected first, desire to keep going, fast recovery, ect), multiple episodes, and ruling out other likely causes. Of these 101 dogs, 98 had two copies of the mutation, and 3 were clear. So, while this mutation appears to be the most likely cause for the majority of the collapse that is termed EIC, a different cause is responsible a small portion of it (even though they look similar).

We had several cases in which both the affected dog and their parents were submitted.

In all cases in which the affected dog had two copies of the mutation, the parent was at least a carrier, if not affected themselves. There has not been a study to understand why not all dogs collapse yet, or why it takes so much more pressure for some than others. Hopefully this will be taken up after our manuscript is published, and dogs can be screened to find those that do and do not.

My personal belief from what I have heard from owners/trainers is that it has much to do with the temperament of the dog (how high strung are they), as well as the way they handle exciting /stressful situations. Different dogs consider different "triggers" exciting. Some dogs can handle duck hunting, but collapse with quail. Many are great a field trialing, with no problems, but it you throw bumpers in the yard with a bunch of dogs present and they go down. Others have problems as puppies, but seem to out grow it with time."


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dogs

311 good post, thanks

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