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trailratedtj

Well I was Mr. Stupid today. We shot several birds today and of course there were some cripples. Anyways, out of the three cripples shot i broke a law on each one. Being excited i DIDNT case my gun, DIDNT unload it, and DIDNT kill the motor on the duck boat while retrieving the cripples. Of course they were all divers so i shot them with the motor running...STUPID, STUPID, STUPID. T.I.P. was called on me and i did get a ticket, the officer took it nice on me since i knew the law and just wasnt paying attention to what i was doing. Ive always obeyed those laws but never realized that i was breaking them when i retrieve cripples.

Anyways im very sorry to the people that were on the lake and please forgive my stupidity. The lake is in carver county near waconia. Sorry guys.

Also, do u guys know how much the fee is for having a uncased unloaded gun in a motorized vehicle?

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french_lake_kid

That sux, it's kind of a pain, but its probly for saftey/poaching reasons, by the time you get up 2 the divers, take out the gun, load a few shells, they're 30+ yds. away already mad.gif

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What do you mean .." it sux"? Everything sounds absolutely perfect to me: individual A breaks state and federal law; the T.I.P program kicks into gear, courtesy an alert and caring witness; individual B, sworn to enforce that law does his duty.

Perhaps individual A will not act in the same way next time. Or at least that is supposed to be the result. I have found that, generally speaking, there is always a great deal of humility, self flagellation and confession just AFTER being apprehended.

Nothing personl boys, just keep hopping the world will get better. grin.gif

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French Lake Kid is 100% and is the sole reason I will break that law everytime.

Good luck to those who try and chase a diver around by doing the law abiding thing. And if you don't chase it around you are breaking another law.

Either way you lose.

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trailratedtj

thats why he lowered the ticket. He could of got me for alot more, but he didnt. I did tell him that i was going for cripples and he was very appreciative for that and said he understands what i was doing but i should have at least shut the boat down before i shot. Which i dont blame him, right before i stood up to shoot a cripple the boat was still moving pretty good from where i was chasing one that was diving. right when i pulled up to shoot he took off and i had to stand up to get a good shot. the boat was still moving pretty good and i actually hit my knee on the tiller shaft and kicked the motor causing me to wobble but the gun was still on safe(still doesnt matter). i could have fell in, but i regained my balance and made the shot.

The weird thing is that we were the only group that shot ducks. I think there was 5 or 6 groups counting us. The C.O. told us the only other people there that got anything was one group that got 3 coot. Maybe they were mad at that. We Had the best shooting with 9 duck, and 1 meganser for 2 guys(this includes the cripples). Maybe the guys got pissed and thought we were ruining there hunt by running out and chasing down the cripples. Maybe thats why they called T.I.P.

Anyways, no matter what it was still wrong by law. The guys that called could have talked to me or could have yelled at me.

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There's a group, panel of concerned duck hunters, who advocate that this law should be changed. Your obvious intent was to pursue and finish off wounded birds which is the ethical thing to do. The law of casing guns with motor running, switching off motor and uncasing gun to shoot at a diving cripple is onerous at best. It's nice to hunt out of a canoe for that reason. I can see the need for the law but I also see that ethics sometimes trumps the law. A good foul.

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Sounds about right to me I can't imagine shooting my firearm while my boat was running and still moving under power.

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I am disturbed by several reactions to this situation, the first being an assertion by one member, and the apparent intent by another, to "break the law" because I don't agree with it.

The proper way to deal with a law you don't like is work hard to get it changed. Write, attend meetings, raise hell about it. When you violate the law you become a criminal. Not cute. Not macho.

Lets say I don't like the law that says I can't hunt on your farm, so I just mosey on in an hunt-hey, I don't like that law, I can do as I please. Well, holy-moly...I'll get arrested. Maybe I won't do that again. But if I really think the law is cramping my style I'm going to see if I can have it changed. It is the way our country is governed. When everybody obeys only the laws they agree with, and breaks all the others, we arrive at anarchy.

Just obey the rules fellas. The rest of us do. When you don't I will turn you in in a heartbeat and so will most guys I know. Changing the regulation (law) might make sense and you might be surprised how many other guys might stand up and help you get it changed.

Breaking a law, regardless of intent, will not help you and will not get the law changed. grin.gif

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It is considered still "under power" when you shut off the motor. I was warned for this a few years ago chasing a cripple. You technically have to stop your drift motion to be legal. The MN DNR must love to waste cripples. What a stupid law.

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No disrespct meant here but the time I would have to spend on something so stupid in the first place to get changed isn't worth it. My time would be worth more than the fine itself.

I will pay the fine as I do when I speed on the highways. That would be a little closer to an appropriate comparison of the 2.

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IMO, Some times there is a fine line beetween doing what legal and what seems right. I read this post yesterday, and was frusterated me, and today I was forced to do what seemed right rather than what was legal when a bufflehead that was being persude by a friends retriever took the dog on a 300 yard trek over 30 feet of water. the result after about fiffteen failed rounds was that my buddy got to bring his dog home alive and I got a piece of mind knowing that the bird was not going to freeze in the ice this winter and suffer. Point being it would of never happened had I unloaded,cased my gun motored out to the bird waited to stop, uncased my gun ,loaded it and fired!! and repeated this process over and over. I bieleve this law is put into place to protect the sport of waterfowling by preventing an image that may seem barbaric to land owners and others who are not waterfowlers. and sometimes blankets other instances (such as persuing wounded game) , and some times you need to make a judgent call and do what is right.It does not make me feel "cute" nor "macho", but rather relieved knowing I gave the game the respect it deserves by not leaving it crippled and suffering.

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trailratedtj

people would really love to watch a wounded goose flop around the lake running from your drifting boat and then the people would really get pissed because you crippled it and now you cant kill it because it takes to long to legally put it down. if you've ever chased a gut shot goose with a busted wing or 2 it looks pretty bad.

Like i said by law i am wrong and i will take it, but it should be changed. maybe a * beside these rules when i come down to chasing a cripple. if the CO is watching he would know how to tell the difference between chasing a cripple or actually being unlawful and chasing sitting flocks of ducks on water.

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Okay fellas, let me take one more run at this and then I'll quit. I agree the regulations are often less than ideal or perfect. But consider this: what if there were NO restrictions regarding shooting while under power, or cased guns while in a moving boat etc. You know as well as I do that people would be out chasing waterfowl with power boats and shooting them, just as they did when these regulations were developed. And I am firm in my belief that this attitude that "I'll obey the laws and rules I like"...or "heck, I'll do as I please and pay the fine" is not healthy for sportsmen as individuals or for the country. If none of us finds it "worth my time" to try to change laws and regulations than we will continue to get laws and regulations we dislike.

Apparently, in this case (and I am not picking on anybody here) the people who watched the activities on the lake and reported them DID agree with the regulations and DID feel it their responsibility to take action. They found it "worth their while" to take action.

Things are tough enough for American sportsmen right now fellas. Don't fight against or amongst yourselves. SUPPORT the good regulations and FIGHT to change the ones you feel are uneccessary or unenforceable. wink.gif

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Quote:

i should have at least shut the boat down before i shot. Which i dont blame him, right before i stood up to shoot a cripple the boat was still moving pretty good from where i was chasing one that was diving. right when i pulled up to shoot he took off and i had to stand up to get a good shot. the boat was still moving pretty good and i actually hit my knee on the tiller shaft and kicked the motor causing me to wobble but the gun was still on safe(still doesnt matter). i could have fell in, but i regained my balance and made the shot.


Good thing you didn't fall in or discharge your firearm accidently.

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We hunt divers almost exclusively, and know how hard it can be at times to chase cripples. Ideally, we would by law not have to case the gun (with or without shells chambered), but the motor being off, and even forward progress are not that big a deal, as you can't aim accurately or safely when moving. But the law is what it is, and its best to follow it.

We bring a Puddler along with us when hunting from the big boat, and at the first sign of a cripple one of us jumps into it and off you go right away. No need to case or unload if rowing. We find this to work better on cripples than dogs (90% of time) as it is just too hard for a dog to see a diver beaking it in a chop.

It can be tough, and it stinks when you have to admit to giving up on them, but sometimes they are just still too strong, and unless the water is 100% flat, you just can't follow beakers all the time.

I only say this because I agree with you all that there is no perfect way to go about the chasing of cripples, and it can be tough. Can only do the best we can, and admit when we are beat. Heck, I lost no cripples this year up until one morning in NoDak, when I lost 4 in the first 30 minutes. That was with a dog... I wish I had had my Puddler then wink.gif I just couldn't walk through the slough fast enough to catch up.

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Sartell Angler

lucky and trail- I'm with you

A guy should be able to do whatever is necessary (yet safe) to recover all cripples. Personally, I think that with a guy running the motor and another guy in the front with a loaded gun is perfectly safe, as is a guy running the motor and shooting the gun by himself in the boat. I think the forward motion should be stopped before shooting though, so unless the boat is clipping along at a good pace and the guy is firing the CO should be able to tell just fine what the guy's intentions are.

Hopefully they right this wrong and get it figured out one of these years. I'm happy to say that I have personally not lost a cripple yet this year and hopefully I make it through the season without losing one. Credit goes to the dog on a few of 'em for sure!

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I believe the law/reg is written to prevent yahoos from motoring down the shoreline chasing up ducks and popping them as they flush out of the weeds. I have seen this done many years ago.

Then you have the "i was chasing a cripple" excuse if someone was doing that. This way there is no "grey" line for a CO to interperet.

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DigitalFisherman

Quote:

anyone no how much this ticket is gonna cost me?


$120, at least that's what it cost in Cass County.

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I think the biggest problem we have is the laws contradict eachother. If I can get a ticket for not making every effort to retrieve my game, but then I can get a ticket for shooting my gun before my boat stops. How will the boat ever technically "stop" if you hunt in 20 mph wind. So technically you could never shoot a cripple in open water during a windy day. The laws are written to be followed, not interpreted by us, but when they are written poorly, it leaves us open for problems.

And don't forget every cripple you don't find is to be counted in your daily bag too.

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Quote:

anyone no how much this ticket is gonna cost me?


It was around a hundred bones ten years ago.

Haven't gotten one recently, but if some jealous hacks decide to call TIP on me, I'm sure I will.

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commander019

The MN law for retrieving crippled birds in a boat is a joke. How can they expect you to case your gun, get into the boat, chase the cripple down, stop the boat, uncase your gun, load your gun and then dispose of the cripple. Its just not gonna happen. They need to modify that rule. I have no problem for what you did. I would have more of a problem if you would have just left it go and not even made an attempt.

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french_lake_kid

Yup the wind could really play a roll, but I could see where somebody would be chasing live birds, shut off the motor at 30 or 40mph & shoot while still moving. It definately has 2B changed, and maybe the CO's have to use common sense, and good judgement also, it pretty obvious if your "cripple" is swimming with 10 other birds, and they all take off, but if your motoring towards it and it goes nowhere its pretty obvious you're chasing a wounded bird, not a live flock. smirk.gif

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(a) A person may not take migratory waterfowl,

coots, or rails in open water unless the person is:

(1) within a natural growth of vegetation sufficient to partially conceal the person or boat;

(2) on a river or stream that is not more than 100 yards in width; or

(3) pursuing or shooting wounded birds.

(a) A person using watercraft to take migratory

waterfowl must comply with subdivision 1.

(B) Migratory waterfowl may be taken from a watercraft propelled by motor or sails only if

the watercraft has stopped and the motor is shut off and the sails are furled.

© Migratory waterfowl may be taken from a floating watercraft if the craft is drifting,

beached, moored, resting at anchor, or is being propelled by paddle, oars, or pole.

I would have a tough time deciding when the power of the motor was no longer responsible for my movement and wind took over causing me to drift. Unless I was driving into the wind, then when my boat changed directions I could shoot.

The other thing I don't understand is how can I remain in enough vegetation to partially conceal me, but then be allowed to drift, oar, or pole my watercraft. So can I only drift if I'm drifting through cattails or vegetation, which would be difficult.

And how do you define partial? From 500 yards over the hill the shoreline would partially conceal me even if I was out in the middle of the lake, depending on your perspective. It's pretty ambiguous to me.

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Ray Esboldt

Honker23,

Thanks for pointing that out. I am not sure some guys do that.

I hate that rule, so I chase them with oars most of the time as I don't generally hunt that big of water. But rules are rules, you need to follow them or face the consequences.

A story a buddy of mine related to me kind of illustrates how restrictive that rule is. He went on a sea duck hunt in Maine. They wounded an eider or scoter or something that flies out there. The guide told them we need to chase that one. So, they immdediately unloaded and cased their guns. The guides statement was, "What the hell are you doing?" Their response was, "We're getting ready to chase that cripple. We need to case our guns." The guide's puzzled look led to an explanation of Minnesota laws. His response was, "How do you ever get a cripple?" I was never told what the official law was there.

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trailratedtj

What do u do to fight it though...not talking about my ticket but changing the laws. I cant get out of it now because its a current law and no matter what it was broken, and i dont want to pay court cost when i lose. Just me fighting aint gonna do nothing. could i start a petition?

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They are not going to give you a ticket if the wind is blowing your boat guys.

As far as changing the Law I would call the DNR for starters and ask them what steps need to be taken.

Good Luck!

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To change a regulation you could: contact the nearest chapter of Ducks Unlimited, join up and bring up the regulation at a meeting. Seek the support of the Chapter. Contact DNR and have them send you information on how regulations are adopted in MN. Yes, you sure could start a petition. Write to your local legislator and tell them of your effort.

Regulations are changed every day and they are changed by guys just like you who get fed up and take ACTION. Trust me-I've seen it!!

When you begin your effort you will quickly learn (a) how many people feel the same way and, (B) why the present regulation is in place. But, most importantly, you will learn how to move the system; how to have an impact; how to do something other than just complain about it. If you go for it, good for you. You have my respect.

Again. grin.gif

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Quote:

The other thing I don't understand is how can I remain in enough vegetation to partially conceal me, but then be allowed to drift, oar, or pole my watercraft. So can I only drift if I'm drifting through cattails or vegetation, which would be difficult.


Read the rules again, you can take waterfowl from open water if you are chasing a cripple. If you are waiting for birds to show up you have to be partialy concealed. The way I read it is:

(1) within a natural growth of vegetation sufficient to partially conceal the person or boat;

OR

(2) on a river or stream that is not more than 100 yards in width; or

OR

(3) pursuing or shooting wounded birds.

(edit)

I guess I see now what you're saying. But if that second part (the part about drifting, moored, anchored) wasnt in there we wouldnt be lawfully be able to chase cripples at all.

I guess just chalk it up as another one of the 10,000 laws we have in this state.

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