how much baiting do you think goes on?

[spivak]

This has just been the most beautiful week. Going out in the morning with the moon still up and then the changing light as the dawn vies with the moonlight has almost been magical. I always have mixed emotions this time of year. I love October and hate to see it go yet here comes the rut and the deer activity is ramping up. I like hunting with my bow. I like the quiet woods and the room, although there seem to be more bowhunters out there too. I'll be out during the gun season and it is something I've learned to look forward to. It's a different feeling to have my range extended and the clear area around my stand all possible shots. I hunt on private and public land and although I cannot say I've seen bait piles on my neighbors' land I've seen the sacks of corn in their pickups and in their garages. This always brings me down. I'm happy to have them get their deer but is baiting endemic; is it necessary? How many people hunting their private land use bait as an integral part of their tradition? I've run across enough bait piles on public land to realize that if this is what happens in the green wood what about the dry? If people are willing to take the chance of being caught on public land is there anything to stop someone from baiting within the privacy of their own land? I cannot imagine the COs can possibly pretend to have a handle on this. So, does it really matter? The deer herd is big in most areas and ownership of land seems to confer some claim to the animals which live there. Yet I feel uncomfortable with a law which unequiviocally states "no baiting" and the evidence that baiting is rampant and accepted by a significant number of hunters. Along with all the great traditions that the deer opener comjures up I feel that baiting muddles and diminishes it.

[Dahitman44]

I think a LOT of it goes on. Mostly inbred folks with no true understanding of sportsmanship.

I just read a story that the DNR will be out in full force in choppers and planes looking for bait stations. Apples, sugar beets and pumpkins are some of the things they are looking for.

[c&amagn]

I think baiting goes on more than a person thinks? I remember last year in the Star Trib in the outdoors section they had airial photographs of bait piles from the DNR Planes above and buted quite a few hunters that way. But I'm guessing only a meer handful of what really goes on out in the woods. Like previously stated above, that is definitly not sportsmanship at all or do I concider it hunting at all. That would be like a deer waiting for a person to come out of their house int the morning to go start their car to go to work and the deer takes you out. Gee, what great sportsmanship huh? The best we can do is report any law breakers through TIP and go from there.

[shogun]

I think baiting is lame as well, but I wouldn't be surprised if they legalize it in MN. It's legal in Wisconsin, but then again...

[chucker34]

If you read the article from Sunday's paper Dahitman is referring to, one of the Wisconsin wildlife officials pretty much indicated even he is not in favor of baiting, so I doubt Minnesota plans to implement it legally anytime soon.

What really tees me off is the whole premise of "hunters" twisting the new law the DNR implemented regarding baiting in a way they think allows them to bait. Basically the law says if someone else on the property next to you is baiting and you weren't involved with it in any way, you are fine to hunt your own property next to it. There is absolutely now way any sane person could interpret it any other way! But somehow, many people have now thought, hey, the dnr says I can bait. WHAT?!?!?!?

[colonel42]

Here is an easy fix. Make baiting legal or don't have it at all. Either yes or no!!! Pretty hard to make it illegal when the stores in MN are making so much money off of corn, cocane, and the rest of the stuff on the market. It is all there for all of us to buy. Our DNR staff is so small and it would be impossible for them to check us all.

[Deitz Dittrich]

My wife hates the fact that I always play "Devis Advocate".. but here goes... And please keep in mind. I in no way condone illegal behavior. I do not bait while in MN.. I do have some land in WI, and have baited there. And have not baited there as well.. I really dont think it makes it a whole lot easier...

But my question is this... How many of you use bait for fishing?... and how is that different? Maybe fishing should be done with only artificial lures? Doesn't bait make fishing easier?

I can see where baiting and rifle hunting could make it a lot easier. But if a person is there only to really harvest an animal(much like we do fishing). I have no problem with those that do, IN LEGAL SITUATIONS!!! IN LEGAL SITUATIONS!!!

[chucker34]

I agree with Deitz. The key word is Legally. Once you've made something legal, its pretty hard to make it illegal and have people respect that successfully. So good luck in getting people to stop using salt and food plots, etc. after its been legal for so long. And that's one reason why I don't think Wisconsin will ever ban it completely. It would be too hard to enforce at this point.

[Shack]

I think Dietz said it perfect!

It’s the same as fishing! You get to the limit of game the law allows and stop! How you get there should be done legal, but I do not see baiting deer a big issue or a cardinal sin! I also do not think it would work that entirely great in day light hunting hours anyways. The bait pile in my back woods for my trail cam, only see action during none hunting hours!

I do not bait when I hunt and even if legal, would really not put much effort into it, because I feel it really does not help. Now if we where in a major drought and food was scarce. Then I could see deer baiting as a poor thing to do. But it brings you back to fishing. Using attractant type bait (live or man made) and hitting a hunny hole where the first are ready to eat, it veered upon as a god send find and is totally legal! If a deer falls victim to bait pile hunted over by a man, I would tend to think that animal is weak.

I may be splitting hairs, but I just do not see where the unethical issue with baiting deer comes from. Now shining deer and other illegal tactics are unfair in my eyes!

Also I do not see it any different than putting out attractants or scents! That is legal!

[tealitup]

I do not bait deer. I do bait bear. I use worms for fishing. I do not bait waterfowl (decoys only).

Deer population is very heavy in some areas and scarce in others. If a hunter goes into the woods for the first time all year how does he know where to hunt. I, as a bear hunter, do not know the first place to set a stand to catch a bear without baiting. Therefore, I think baiting for deer could be allowed.

[Dahitman44]

I hate the fact that I can buy something from fleet farm and it is AGAINST the law to use. Or it might be against the law.

Very tricky stuff out there.

[Deitz Dittrich]

I think its important to point out.. that some people have back yard feeders.. They like to view deer.. And they may not be hunters. Hence why they sell corn in stores.. its for people who have feeders.. not for hunters...

[JacobMHD]

Personally, I enjoy the hunt, finding trails, determining habit and time, and reacting to changes. Baiting would be like shooting deer in a barrel. Not my idea of hunting. A previous post described his experience bear hunting with bait as "catching a bear". Seems to me this would apply to deer "hunting" too. It's called hunting season not catching season. My .02.

[MNOutdoorsman]

I thought that baiting/feeding deer increased the risk of CWD transmission. Isn't that why deer feeding is banned in parts of the state? Why would we legalize something that could put our deer herd at risk?

[shogun]

You can't really compare baiting deer to fishing unless you are talking about chumming. Chumming would be more like baiting for deer, but still not quite unless you did it every day in the same spot as you are feeding deer every day to get them to come into the same spot routinely to guarantee yourself a for sure thing. Not much satisfaction in that. At least not for me. If others are simply trying to put meat on the table and are satisfied with it, I don't have a problem with it. It would seem unfair if someone was attempting to take a trophy buck this way though.

[colonel42]

My guess is these people that enjoy the deer in their back yard also like to eat venison. Not all don't get me wrong but my guess from the people I know up here in the north country where the salarys are low and the unemployment is high might just take the trip to the local fleet store and purchase some corn to entice a quick and easy shot to fill their freezer. Heck why have to go and sit in a deer stand when it is cold and miserable outside when I can just dump a 50 lb bag of corn in the back yard and sit a lazyboy with rifle in hand. Ya I know this sound far fetched but it happens. eventually they will make it legal for people to bait here in MN. The stores make money, there are way to many people complaining that deer are destroying their trees they planted and the insurance company's paying out tons of money to repair vehicle cost of deer and car accidents. Just my guess. Heck if any of you watch the out door shows they have on TV most of them are advertising products to entice deer to a stand. I did hear on the radio yesterday that the DNR has hired three people to fly around in helicoptors to check for feeding. Hmmm that could be interesting!!! Could you imagine sitting in your stand and the MN swat team drop in (literally)and give you a ticket.

[Shack]

Lure them in with chumming (not legal in MN) or putting on a fish attractant scent, would be like spreading deer cane around or using urine or other scents (which is legal).

Having a bait pile is like putting on a sucker minnow in a small lake with ton of northern

in it! They might hit it or not and when they do, WHAM! Set the hook or pull the trigger!

[shogun]

I can't help but keeping drawing this picture in my head of someone sitting up in their tree stand hanging onto a fishing rod dangling an apple with a big old deer hook stuck in it waiting for a deer to bite - what a fight that would be!

[Shack]

Ya, That or the Image Big Lake Bass posted a week or so ago!

That cracks me up!

But in the end, I just do what the DNR says to do! This way I feel I have done the best I can as a sportsman and do not get any fines or go to jail at the end of the day!

[spivak]

One big difference I see between baiting while fishing vs. baiting while hunting is that bait used in the course of fishing does not change the behavior of the majority of the fish in your area. Putting out a bait pile for the purpose of hunting can. It can concentrate deer unnaturally, change their movement and patterns, and aid in the spread of disease.

[Piker]

There is really very little difference between a fall forage food plot and baiting. The food plot is more work, but you're accomplishing the same result. If you hunt over a food plot then you are essentially baiting. Would deer naturally be out in that field if it was plowed black for winter? Probably not, so you've created an unnatural movement of deer to a food source. They are the same thing. I know most will disagree, but there really isn't a difference.

[bigbucks]

I really don't care about baiting one way or the other personally. I hunted in WI where you can & still did very little of it. It's just a lot more work that really isn't that affective. If you throw out a pile of apples where deer come they eat them. If you throw them out where deer don't come they'll still rot like they would in your backyard.

Your analogy about deer waiting for you to get in your car to shoot you isn't a good one, although brings up some funny/scary mental images. That would mean the deer patterned you & knew that you got in your car everyday around 7:30 or whatever time you go to work & were waiting there to ambush you. I'm quite sure that's the exact way most of us think is a very sound, ethical way to hunt deer. I'm sure that actually would be your idea of "sportsmanship". I agree that it is, hence why it's a poor analogy.

[Shack]

spivak,

If you feel that way about how fish react, go out and pick your self up a chubby darter. Check it out in the ice fishing forum area. Supposed to make fish go crazy.

Check the Hog trough at the sportsman show! When they throw the mimic minnow or the Banjo Minnow in the tank! The fish all act very strange!

I do see your point a little! A bait pile brings deer to an area for days on end. Fishing bait and scents only try to do it for a couple of hours at a time.

[smnduck]

Baiting for deer is against the law. Making a food pile in the woods increase the risk of CWD which the people of this state do not want. Many deer touching the bait pile with their nose and mouth is one way which increases the spread of CWD. The law should be no baiting for deer for hunting and or viewing. On another note with the baiting in wolf range. The bait piles become a wolf hiway with the deer not moving far from the piles. So if your thoughts are to try and make it easier to shoot a deer by baiting you are also possibly harming the heard also.

[Jameson]

I think a lot of illegal baiting goes on.

A big difference to me of bait pile vs. food plot: A bait pile can have an unlimited amount of calories in a small pile with-in dense woods. Food plots have a limited amount of calories on wide open fields.

[vister]

i myself have an acre and a half food plot. it is rather secluded in its location. i also bait in the spring in my other location, only to get the deer close enough for the trail cam. Neither of which is illegal. if everyone thinks food plots are baiting as well, should i plow the hay fields under every fall? should i burn the meadow off every fall that i hunt over so i don't see deer going or coming to their bedding areas. my purpose of the food plot is to get the herd better nutrition, as meadow grass or tree bark probably doesn't have too much protein in it. in a sense, some think i am luring them to me. well, the deer can come if they want. its not like 5 bushel of corn is dumped out underneath my stand. it is still fair game hunting over a food plot. some people will do anything to shoot that big one. myself would just prefer to have a healthy deer in the freezer.

as far as the plot goes, i have seen a bunch of deer out there this fall, but harvested none from that stand. they'll really love it this winter when the turnips and ruttebaggas freeze. lots of sugar then. just maybe we'll have a brutally cold winter, or a lot of snow. at least they'll have something to eat when the going gets tough!

[Piker]

Not everyone thinks food plots are baiting, I'm the only one that made the comparison but it was only for the purpose of trying to demonstrate that I don't think baiting is all that evil. Food plots are a good thing, they help the herd while attracting deer to an area. I think they're great and they essentially accomplish the same result as baiting.

One thing baiting has for it is that it allows for a selective harvest. There shouldn't be a need to shoot at a running deer, so you probably have cleaner kills. Anyway, that's rambling my point is I don't think they are that bad. Baiting is definitely popular.

[c&amagn]

Great statement Vister