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EyesOnThePrize

Shore lunch and fish remains

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EyesOnThePrize

I've check the VNP website and can't seem to locate any information regarding what to do in the park with fish remains.

I know in the BWCA the rule (currently) is to take the remains into the woods away from camp and shore and dump them.

What should you do in the park?

Same,

Bury them,

Leave on the rocks by shore for the birds...

I would assume you don't have to pack them out considering it would be difficult to store fish remains for any period of time when camping there.

Thanks

Bill

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wmn luv me walleye fearme

when you get your camping permit it says to clean them, cut the air bladder and cut into smaller pieces and dump them maybe 50 yards? from shore in deeper water. Unforunately for me never had that problem. (caught some but they were either 11, 12 inchers, or above 17)

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EyesOnThePrize

Thanks -

That would be a good thing to post on their site considering I will be staying outside the park and only doing shore lunches (not actually camping). - And therefore will not be getting a permit...

I guess that raises the question - can you use the campsites - just for day use/ lunches without any type of permit.

I'll be going in early October when finding a campsite is not an issue (so I won't be keeping anyone from it).

Bill

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Down Deep

There is no permit required for camping in VNP. WMN must be ref.erring to the BWCA which requires a permit. The MN DNR regs prohibit disposal of fish remains into the water. Take them into the woods and bury them.

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EyesOnThePrize

I know the BWCA permit does not say to dump them in the water. They very clearly want you to take them into the woods and leave them for scavengers.

I see on the VNP this:

"OVERNIGHT PERMIT

A free permit is required for all overnight stays in the park.

Details

All overnight use in Voyageurs National Park requires a free permit. Permits can be obtained at park visitor centers and boat launches. One permit per party per overnight stay is required."

So, although free, you still have to get a permit for camping. And I guess that answers my question about day usage without camping though.

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wmn luv me walleye fearme

here is whats on the vnp website for the fish

http://www.nps.gov/archive/voya/camping/camp.htm

(in the middle about bear country)

Make sure that you clean fish away from your campsite and dispose of fish entrails by cutting them into small pieces and disposing of them in deep water.

Good luck fishing, hopefully you do better then I did and can put the fish cleaning to use

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Down Deep

After reading the VNP website permits are required for the group sites. The other developed sites are first come and require no permit. You can stop anywhere you want during the day without a permit. VNP is still a park that has very few rules for use. It is one of just a handfull of National Parks that has no admission fee.

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Wade Joseph

There are permits that you are supposed to fill out and hang on your tent for campsites at VNP. They are available at the ramp on Crane lake as well as the various VNP visitor centers. They are free.

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duckster

I live up here and am in the park alot. Just to clear things up. Wade is right, there is a permit required for any overnight stay in the park, houseboat or camping. They are free of charge at all Visitor Centers and boat ramps in the park. They have to filled out completely and the carbon left in the box. The Rangers do check the permits at the campsites and if you don't have one you could get a ticket.

As far as shore lunch you can do that at day use sites or campsites (until 2pm). You are not supposed to use the houseboat sites. You can use undesignated sites but they don't have tables or toilets.

Fish guts, park says dump them in deep water. The main thing is don't leave them in or around the developed sites.

Hope this helps,

Duckster

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Hockey Guy

I can guarantee you that Duckster is 100% correct on everything he wrote (on this subject anyhow grin.gif).

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Black_Bay

On page 13 of the Minnesota Fishing Regulations it states "Depositing fish entrails or fish parts into public waters or onto lake or stream shorelines is prohibited". You should take the entrails into the woods well away from any camp site or houseboat site.

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HokeyEye

Hey Eyes, I believe when you are in a National Park, and their regulations say put them in the water, you put them in the water. If you leave VNP, then they go in the ground, or packed out.

Good luck on your trip, and watch out for the guys fishin in the channels... wink.gif

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ShoepacSally

Try feeding them to the pelicans. They love 'em.

Funny little story about the pelican,

throat can hold more than its belly can,

food for a week, stored in its beak,

just don't know how the hellican.

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Down Deep

I learn something new on FM everyday. I'll have to look for the permits as I just drive up to the ramp, load the boat and go. I got the following off the VNP FAQ website.

Q:What kind of permit do I need to get into Voyageurs and what does it cost?

A: No permit is required and it does not cost anything to enter the Park. However, anyone staying in the Park overnight, year-round, is required to have an overnight permit. Visitors can obtain permits from any of the visitors centers or from one of the permit boxes located at each of the boat launches. Be aware that park campsites are becoming more popular each year and they fill up early most weekends in the summer. Eventually the National Park Service could require advance campsite permits to ensure that people who drive great distances to the park will be guaranteed a campsite when they arrive.

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HokeyEye

Those are pelicans?! I was told they were sky carp! grin.gif

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Hockey Guy

I’ve heard that the park is leaning toward advanced registration permits as well. I know someone that is on the ‘Friends of VNP’ (or something like that) board. He was saying that it is seriously being considered. I told him that I strongly disagree with that approach.

There will be people that will register but not show up. It happens to every one of us; we have a trip planned, but something else comes up last minute and we have to postpone or cancel. I was going to be up this week camping, but too much stuff came up last minute at work so here I am in the office. Inevitably, many of the best sites will be empty waiting for a group that’s not going to be there.

People like myself often don’t know they are going to go up until a few days before. There is no way that a campsite would be available on that short of notice. I just decided yesterday that I’m going to go up Saturday and stay for 4-6 days.

Every year as soon as the park service opens the registration process, which I’m sure will be on-line, there will be people reserving their favorite sites before they are even sure they can make it on the dates they reserved.

I admit that it does bite when you have to burn through 30 gallons of gas looking for a site, but I think it’s better than advanced registration. The only way I can see advanced registration working is if they require a credit card number to hold the site. When the party that reserved the site shows up, they need to check into a visitor’s center to pick up their free permit. If the permit is never picked up, the credit card gets charged $250. You should be able to cancel up to 3 days in advance but after that you get charged. There needs to be a real-time web site so other people can check for cancellations and reserve cancelled sites.

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EyesOnThePrize

They would most likely use the existing reservation system at this URL:

http://www.recreation.gov/

I am pretty sure it handles all national park reservations. It also handles BW reservations. The only placed I have reserved at is the BW - but basically you are correct, people do make reservations and are no shows. And don't plan a trip in the middle of the summer without a reservation cause you'll probably get stuck with a nasty entry point.

They could handle it like the state park system where only part of the daily limits are reservable and the rest are first-come first-served. In the BW the reservations are by entry point and not site specific however they could very easily make it site specific in VNP considering all sites are numbered.

Of course all of this is speculation as I haven't followed other discussions on this topic...

Bill

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mark23

Another problem with a registration system is what is already happening in the bwcaw. The enviromental groups reserve large quantities of dates, that there really not going to use, so there's no sites left for people to really use. There would have to be some sort of way to verify that the people reserving a site are actually showing up to use it.

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chaffmj

Quote:

The enviromental groups reserve large quantities of dates, that there really not going to use, so there's no sites left for people to really use.


I have never heard of that where did you get that info?

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Down Deep

This statement may have merit. As I recall during the establishment of the BWCA permit system one of the so-called preservation groups advocated this practice to their membership. However, I reserve BWCA permits every year and have never not received a permit that I applied for, so I'm not sure how much of this reserve then not-show can be going on. I have also been able to get a BWCA permit on short notice for spur-of-the-moment trips. It might not be at the lake of first choice, but usually an entry point nearby. Another issue is that the outfitters in the BWCA area would soon be protesting if this no-show for reservations were excessive as it would be impacting thier businesses. I'm sure the US Forest Service tracks the no-show rates for the BWCA and has strategies to prevent it.

As for Voyagers, I don't see why the NPS doesn't develop another 75 to 100 campsites within the park. There is no doubt in my mind that the park could handle them without having an impact of existing sites or diminishing the park experience . The NPS actively promotes the park and should be prepared to accommodate new visitors.

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chris63

Does VNP (since it is federaly funded )trump state law when it comes to disposing of fish entrails ect???????????Just wondering..We always set the guts on a rock and watch the Gulls fight over and chomp em down in about 30 seconds.c63(It is unlawfull to throw them into the water(deep or shallow) confused.gif

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duckster

Ah... the fish gut thing. This has been debated for a long time. The state says you can't deposit fish guts in or near the water and the feds say to dump them in deep water. Probably the best solution is to bring them into the woods away from the lake and bury them or carry them out to the dumpsters at the boat ramps. I have talked to officers from both agencies and I can tell you with some degree of certainty that you should not dump them on the lakeshore. Even if you think the birds will clean them up. This is especially true near campsite and developed areas. The main idea with fish guts is not to leave them where they create a mess for the next guy.

- Duckster

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GBS

Having seen bears forage at and even rip apart campsites on almost every spring trip....I'd believe the guys who were going to give me a ticket for doing it wrong - the VNP Rangers. Those fish guts are going in deep water......

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