Coyotes in the area

[Studer]

In that past few years our success rate has decreased quite a bit. When sitting in my stand during rifle last year, I had a coyote run right underneath me right at daybreak. I didn't want to ruin my hunt that morning so I let it run I feel that this is a significant reason for having low deer numbers the past few years. Has anyone else experienced this and what is the best way to go about it....get a varmit gun and some distress calls?? I hunt at my uncles property east of saint cloud right near santiago and it is a 200 acre plot of land. Mostly hardwoods. I have not yet made it out this year as we had a wedding on Saturday and of course that darn work gets in the way!!!

[Dave S]

You could try it. But I have to say good luck. There are more people out there who don't do their homework prior to going out.

I have a lot of coyote's where I live, but I have even more people who sit on the roads, in their cars, with a distress tape/CD and the volume cranked up. Or they go in the general area where the coyotes den up and will stand in the middle of the field in the wide open and try to howl like a coyote.

There's endless information on the web. The best I can do for you is to research coyote hunting and take in all of the information you can.

[CO1978]

Hey Studer,

I believe we are seeing the effects from Coyotes where I hunt. I have seen numerous yotes the height of a black lab and tracks that two inches wide. I have been told they are to big to be yotes but I think they are to small to be wolves. Keep me posted on how your season goes.

Cory

[roosterslayer]

just remember that coyote hunting is almost twice as hard as deer hunting. its not as easy as just going out there and killing some. for me that ratio of stands vs. kills was about 12-15 different sets in different areas per one coyote taken. there are more and more callers out there not and like stated above people that just go out blow on calls from their cars or using the same sounds all the time in the same areas just educate the yotes and they will not respond. i would definately do so research play the wind and dont call to much. i normally do about three calling sets at each stand. and each stand will last approximately 15-20 minutes. If a yote hasn't shown up by then, forget it because they are not coming in or they have already spotted.

[Guest Kyle]

Im glad someone brought this subject up. Personally, coyotes dont affect me where I deer hunt, so I am fortunate in that sense. However, alot of my relatives and friends have been having trouble with coyotes. Heres a little incentive for everyone to get out there and decrease the coyote "herd" in MN.

My unlce belongs to a hunting chapter(forgot which one) in todd county. He went to a seminar given by a wildlife biologist thats main area of study is animals from the canis family(in this sense, Wolves and Coyotes). The biologist spent the last 30-40 yrs of his life pretty much in the outdoors studying these animals and concluded many things which have already been established in the biological science world, and some new ones. Many of us know that Coyotes are predators, as well as scavengers. You could say that wolves are too. However, according to this biologist(sorry, I should really have his name) the main difference in feeding habbits between wolves and coyotes is this:

a wolf pack will travel with and from herd to herd of deer throughout the year, but even while sitting on the very fringes of that deer population, a wolf/pack will only kill what is absolutley neccessary for him to survive, and will always take the smallest and weakest game first. A wolf will never kill more than he can eat, and will always eat remains before killing another animal. Im not saying wolves dont kill alot of deer in MN, but at least they are doing it more conservatively and because they absolutley have to.

Coyotes however, will kill for fun. They are scavengers so when they need to eat and they cant find anything to kill, they will eat already dead prey. Coyotes are also opportunist, even if they are not hungry, or there pack has just stuffed themselves full, if the opportunity for them to kill again comes about at that moment they will more often then not go ahead and do so. This is an explaination of why people around the state are agreeing that there is a growing coyote problem. This is also why using predator/prey calls have such an effect on coyotes. ON a side note. (just a little more fuel) one of my good friends from work has 8 horses. NOne of the horses have temperment problems with anything, but all of them absolutley hate dogs with a passion! I have seen these horses, take off after a dog that is 100yds away from them with pure rage. The reason, my buddy says hes got alot of coyotes around his place, and said that on any full moon night where you can see really good, and if the horses are in the open so a guy can see them, you can watch a pack of coyotes nip at there heels and screw with them for no reason at all. Lets face it, a pack of coyotes isnt going to take down a full size horse, in its prime let alone a group of 8. He and I are convince that those coyotes do it for pure fun.

Again, I wish I could have cited this info. better, but I just cant find/remember the specifics. This info. is my summary of what the biologist said. Take it or leave it, Im sure there will be some disagreements with what I have stated. If others have more knowlege thats cool, I urge them to share it. Thanks

P.S-I hope everyone goes out and dust a few YOTES this fall/winter! They have great pelts too!

[Studer]

Thanks for all of the input fellas!!! I will definetely not pass on the next opportunity!!! I know that we have seen and heard them and we think they have a growing population and from what I remember, if the pack of coyotes senses their pack decreasing they will breed like crazy!!! Is this true?? Is it almost impossible to eliminate a pack of coyotes?? I remember hearing this as a kid and remember it today. Hey if they keep getting blasted at we would hope they move on. Who knows. Can't wait to get out. Oberg....let's get out sometime and do some bowhunting. Give me a call sometime!!!

[Guest Kyle]

The best, and only way that Ive heard of really doing some damage on a whole pack is to find the den in the spring. If it is possible, burn it. Sometimes they will den underneath huge piles of branches and wood. Poisoning would also work I guess. Not sound outlaw-ish or strung out on killing, but anything you can do to get them while they are young and vulnerable, including the mothers is the best way to go about it. I think it would be pretty tough to kill a whole pack just by hunting them. they are pretty smart and will move out of an area if pressured too much. When I first heard about this method, it made me feel pretty bad because no one wants to hurt anything that is young or cute. But ya just gotta remember what they are going to be like in a couple months.

hope this helps, and I hope no one thinks poorly of hunters after reading this. We are not merciless killers. Its just one of those unfortunate situations that must take place to preserve other species and habitat. Everything needs balance.

[picksbigwagon]

setup, wind direction, and patience is about all I can offer at this point. Everyone else has given you great tips and advice. There are a lot of resources out there for you access. Truthfully, I doubt if your shot would have ruined your day of hunting......

hunter4life, I would like to know the name of that guy, from what I have been reading (predator extreme, ff&G, and Petersons hunting) I have read that wolves will kill for the fun of it, leaving whole carcasses laying on the ground. Not starting a war, but I would like to read what this guy has to say as well. Let's face it, they are canines, both species do it I am sure....

[TrophyEyes]

I have never Coyotes hunted before, but we just aquired 380 acres of CRP land for hunting in mid west MN. We really want to get a good pheasant population going and I know Coyotes can distroy those populations. My question is if the area is a slug only (for deer season) can I use a rifle for taking Coyotes outside of deer season? Or should I use my slug gun or muzzleloader?

[big drift]

I would have to agree with PBW on the wolves killing for fun. It has been documented in western states especially on pregnant cow elk of wolves ripping the stomachs open.

This is a training tool for younger wolves and also for the pack to hone the skills.

As a side warning in Minnesota you would need a permit prior to messing with a den. Unless you have contacted the DNR you are asking for trouble.

Winter is the prime time for yoteing in MN, the pelts are at their prime. We are having yote and wolf problems in our area to the point a federal trapper had to come in and take some out. We are still hearing them calling when out goose hunting.

Good luck and let us know how it works out.

[Dave S]

you can use hi-power rifles for coyotes state wide. Some of the most common calibers are 22-250, .223, .243, and .204 Ruger. A few people use the .17 HMR, but they have to be within 50 yards for an ethical/lethal shot. If you insist on a .17, go with the .17 Remington.

[TrophyEyes]

I have access to a 22-250, but I also have a 7mm Rem Mag (perhaps overkill). The only thing is that my 7mm has been on the shelf for some time and I want to let her rip. It is sick how accurate that thing is. What do you guys think?

[tealitup]

If your shooting now the pelts are worth nothing - so go with the 7mm if you chose.

[Scott K]

If your not concernd in the hide leter have it with all the power you have, but just pay attention where the bullet is going to end up!

[BobT]

It seems to me that this fellow has done some rather extensive research on the subject of wolf vs. coyote habits and it stands to reason his opinion would have merit. As far as wolves killing and leaving carcasses lay, it is not uncommon for wolves to make a kill and return repeatedly to the kill sight. They are even known to stash their kill for later. I have witnessed this first-hand when tracking deer that were wounded by hunters days earlier, I have found the deer partially eaten but also buried under brush and leaves as if to hide it.

The fact that some livestock had their stomachs removed may not be that the wolves had no intention of returning. In the mean time, some farmer finds his dead animal and he moves it, taking the wolves prize away from them. Could explain what appears to be wanton killing but may in fact just have been an stolen food supply.

Bob

[TrophyEyes]

Safety is always number one. There are two location that I can let them fly, but one corner, I may have to switch over to the slug or the smoke pole. I don't care about the hides. Thanks.

[big drift]

Bob T,

Just go out to Jackson Hole or Big Sky MT. You can watch the wolves single out pregnant cows and seperate them and hold them in an area while the cubs are brought in.

I am not arguing the issue of what they do once they kill an animal my personal experiance has been the wolves will intentionally harass wild life and livestock as a training aid.

Unfortunately to many experts in the field of wolf studies are much more emapthic with them then the realities of life.

By the way as to the issue at hand, coyote pelts after being shot last fall with .22-250 were going from $25-$35 a pelt. Use the proper rounds and keep the holes to a minimum and you'll have no problem.

[Guest Kyle]

Hey PBW, I tried calling my uncle, but hes almost 80 and cant remember either. I promise I wasnt making up what I stated earlier, but at the same time im no expert and was just relaying information. I dont discredit your opinion on feeding habits and kills. You could be right. Like I said, Im not an expert. Just relaying the info. I was told. I guess at the same time even if wolves do kill for fun, that doesnt make coyotes look any better in my mind.

[picksbigwagon]

Just curious, I have lots of reading time this winter feeding the newest member of my family come december

[96trigger]

Never, Never, Never pass on a coyote. It doesn't matter what I'm hunting or when, if you get the chance, take the little bugger out. I've gotten three coyotes in my lifetime and I've never once hunted them. Last year, I shot a coyote on the last day of firearm season, I shot a nice doe an hour later.

[roosterslayer]

Pelts that are worth $25-$30 are worth something to the people that take up the challenge of calling them and not running them down with dogs or snowmobiles. Like me, i know i am not making millions but but a few extra dollars for hunting, how can you complain with that, and most times it at least paid for the gas used in that weekend of hunting.

[walleyes12]

If anyone needs help getting rid of some coyotes in the St. Cloud area, email me, I do alot of coyote hunting, really its the only hunting I really do.

[email protected]

[picksbigwagon]

for what it is worth, I would help out with problems around the metro area, SE corner, or around hinkley. I do other hunting, but I have private land access for deer and turkeys.

[roosterslayer]

well if we'll going to go there, if anybody has problems between the metro and st. cloud. Send me an email. December through March its all i do, as the gives me the ok...!!

[BobT]

“Unfortunately to many experts in the field of wolf studies are much more empathetic with them than the realities of life.”

It is just as likely that too many hunters are anti-sympathetic toward wolves. We have a biased opinion don’t we? After all, we compete for the same prize. But then, we NEVER kill for fun, do we?

When you become ill you trust the doctor to use his training and experience to provide you with accurate diagnosis, don’t you? If you don’t you could save your money and not see him. Why not trust the biologists to use their training and field experience in the same way? Unfortunately I believe the majority of the experts in the field don’t agree with you.

It’s like my ex-wife that insisted that our son suffered from ADHD while I disagreed. I believe to this day that the evidence showed that we were failing as his parents to provide him with proper self-discipline training and her pursuit was the easy way out. She took him to at least four different psychologists/psychiatrists before she finally found one that would give her the diagnosis she was looking for and prescribe the stimulant, Ritilin. I and 3/4 of the doctors they saw believe we did our son a disservice.

I guess if one looks hard enough he/she can find someone to agree with just about anything from either side of the coin.

Bob

[picksbigwagon]

I have been teaching for over 15 years BobT, I agree with your assessment 100%, The word NO needs to be learned and understood at a young age.

[Guest Kyle]

[quote Unfortunately I believe the majority of the experts in the field don’t agree with you.

---

BobT-

I think I understand the majority of what you are saying. I agree, but could you clarify this for me:

Do you mean "experts" as in the biologist, and "you" as in the hunter? Im not sure how you mean that.

My experience is that alot of hunters dont believe what the biologist say, and vice versa. Am I on the same page with you?

[CodyDawg]

BobT, I agree on the discipline angle.

I have a little different take on coyotes. There was a study that was presented at a state PF convention from the U of SD that showed that IMPORTING coyotes to areas with a known high concentration of fox increased the pheasant population. The reasoning was that the yotes drove out the fox. Fox have a smaller home range and target pheasants. Coyotes have a larger home range and target other species (wabbits and mice I think I remember) first. So from a purely pheasant angle, coyotes might not be that bad.

Also, you might want to start with Delta Waterfowl in terms of research, they are big proponents of predator suppression and have done many studies on them. Again, this will probably be on the bird angle, but it might provide some clues.

[BobT]

Quote:

---

My experience is that alot of hunters dont believe what the biologist say, and vice versa. Am I on the same page with you?

---

I think we're probably on the same page. Note that I said the "I believe" the biologists disagree with your opinion but like you, it is my opinion and I don't have figures to back up that particular statement with fact. It's just what I believe to be true. In other words, I could be wrong.

Bob

[carpshooterdeluxe]

Quote:

---

BobT, I agree on the discipline angle.

I have a little different take on coyotes. There was a study that was presented at a state PF convention from the U of SD that showed that IMPORTING coyotes to areas with a known high concentration of fox increased the pheasant population. The reasoning was that the yotes drove out the fox. Fox have a smaller home range and target pheasants. Coyotes have a larger home range and target other species (wabbits and mice I think I remember) first. So from a purely pheasant angle, coyotes might not be that bad.

Also, you might want to start with Delta Waterfowl in terms of research, they are big proponents of predator suppression and have done many studies on them. Again, this will probably be on the bird angle, but it might provide some clues.

---

i can agree with this 100% as i have read the reports from usd, as well as a report from sdsu's biology guys about nesting success in controlled conditions (high fence range, x amount of yotes vs x amount of fox vs x amount of coons, skunks etc.) the sdsu study stated that during duck and pheasants breeding seasons, coyotes, while not opposed to taking a free meal of hen mallard or pheasant, would consistantly spend more time mousing and preying on rabbits. trapping fox and skunks will get you way more birds on your land than shooting a coyote. but as far as deer go, i dont really have an idea one way or the other on the effects of coyotes. all i know is that my .22-250 and sks are equal oppertunity predator killers.