New State Park?

[not_nuf_time]

I can understand how everyone wants to keep their own little private corner of the world to themselves, but it's still a way better idea than having another 75 palacaes on the lake. Thats another 75 mini marinas, 200 more jet skis,150 more docks sticking out in the lake. Compared to a state park that would probably put in 2 to 3 accesses. If you've ever spent much time at state parks, you'll see they aren't full of trash strewn all over like you indicate, maybe some are. From what I see the visitors respect the property as much land owners. It's just a different way to enjoy the outdoors. As far as the weed issue, mute point, plenty of visitors already that aren't local. Also highly unlikely to have 400,000 visitors. Maybe you were being sarcastic, if you were, sorry.

[ditchpickle6996]

justinG

I'm really confused. How are a bunch of condos going to creat more job? What does mining have to do with a state park when this is not an area where mining is proposed? Students? Where are you going with this? And taxes,,, well,,, I posted on that already.

pickle

[BRULEDRIFTER]

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justinG

I'm really confused. How are a bunch of condos going to creat more job? What does mining have to do with a state park when this is not an area where mining is proposed? Students? Where are you going with this? And taxes,,, well,,, I posted on that already.

pickle

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Me too! At the very least the park would generate a small handfull of seasonal and permenant jobs in the area, where adding 150 mansions, would not add any long term jobs. Just temp gigs for loggers, real estate dealers, and the lucky gardener.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure JG has bailed on this thread so I don't think he'll chime in to clarify his post.

Oh, well.

I personally feel that the state and local economies up in that area would benefit far more from a new state park vs. a yuppy community that would maybe spend a month out of the whole year living there. The locals would not see much of any of their money. Also, this would be a very unique park, that in the end would consistantly draw people. It's going to be "progressive" w/ internet, and also open in areas to still allow hunting. Its in one of the most unique areas in the region, an area everyone wants to visit. I really don't think it would lie stagnant and not pay for itself over and over again.

I really hope this happens. It would be ideal to just leave it alone, but a park is a far better option then another yuppy infested lake that would eventually lock out any locals or tourists from using the resources.

[SkunkedAgain]

Out of ignorance I'll ask my question:

Does the state park proposal end the Three Bays development, or are they separate issues?

[JustinG]

Bruledrifter,

All that I was really getting at in my earlier thread was our governor and decision makers down in St. Paul need to get their heads on straight. They are all ready to jump on this state park bandwagon, but what about several mining ventures ready to spend Billions of dollars on new ventures up here? Pawlenty has already vetoed 11 million dollars needed for infrastructure improvements to get Minnesota Iron and Steel going. What is 11 million dollars when a company is willing to invest 2 Billion and create 500 new jobs that hardworking people can actually survive on? That project was supposed to start construction this fall, but has been put on the back burner because Pawlenty is not willing set aside money for infrastructure improvements. Our governor has already robbed the 21st century minreals fund which was created years ago from the taconite tax for infrastructue improvements needed to make new projects work. Our roads, power grid, rail lines and harbors cannot support industry right now and the 21st century minerals fund was created for this. And now that is gone. How many millions do you think they are going to need to get this state park up and running? I will bet more than 11 million!

The point I was trying to make was this:

Tourism dollars alone cannot sustain a local economy- plain and simple. We need our mining industry to move forward and our leaders in St. Paul to get some priorities straight! Northern Minnesota is more than just a "weekend escape to the lake."

Justin

[bwtrout]

The first problem with that rational is that money will not go to other things, plain and simple. The second problem is when the state supports business development on the range it is usually by way of tax breaks. Plus the mining jobs are going to made available for union employees sitting on the bench in Duluth and the Twin Cities, not any one looking for employment on the range.

[Steve Foss]

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Tourism dollars alone cannot sustain a local economy-plain and simple.

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Dude, you're sitting there typing that in Ely, for God's sake. Without the whole draw of tourism, Ely would be a hole in the woods, even though it started on timber and made a good go of it for decades on mining. That was a long time ago, and if it weren't for the draw of the woods as a prime motorized vacation/trek location before the Wilderness Act and a prime non-motorized area after the Wilderness Act, your golf course and your job certainly would not be here, nor would much else.

[Jackpine Rob]

Spoken like a true packsacker Steve.

Leaky and I graduated from Memorial High School in Ely in 1978. Our graduating class was around 120. The population of the town was a bit under 5300.

The town had mining, logging and tourism.

How big was the class of 2007? What's the population total on the signs entering town today?

There are still some families in town that are dependent on the mines - but nothing like it was. Lose those jobs, and the town will contract yet again, and the school district will suffer even more.

If some of the new mining ventures being discussed can make a go of it, the difference to the town would be profound. Young families, more money in the local economy - you'd have to have seen things 30 years ago to appreciate how different the town has become, and what it could be again.

Tourism will never fill the economic void left when the mines closed. As a former mayor of Ely once quipped "how many knick-knack shops can one town support?"

As for the taconite tax funds Justin - you might want to ask a few pointed questions about how that money has been spent over the years - - much of it squandered looooong before the current governor.

Chopsticks anyone? How about engineered stone? Spent much time at that sterling attraction known as IronWorld? I sometimes ponder where all of that money went, but it just gives me a headache....

[JustinG]

Thanks, Jackpine for the response. Glad to see someone else feels the same way...

Wake up Steve, how many people in this town have an annual salary of over $20,000? Most people in this town are working 2 or more jobs to make ends meet. Young people are moving away from here man! The Ely school district is in financial ruin because of declining enrollment! The bottom is going to fall out of this place if we can't somehow keep young people here! Do you honestly believe retired folks moving here from Chicago are going to make Ely's economy robust? A 3 month tourist season doesn't put food on the table 12 months of the year!!!!!!!!!!

[ditchpickle6996]

justinG,

Just exactly how are the town homes going to help the area more than a state park? That is what this post is about right? The senseless ramblings you have made on this thread (see my previous post) have nothing to do with anything besides the fact that Ely is not where it once was economically. Tourist dollars from the park are better than no dollars at all.

pickle

[JustinG]

Pickle,

I am all done with this post. I have said what I needed to say and I will no longer be checking this post. I think we have all beat this thing to death and from here on it is just beating a dead horse. I wish everybody a great evening and I by no means wanted to make any enemies over this. Take care everybody and good fishing!!!!

Justin

[BRULEDRIFTER]

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justinG,

Just exactly how are the town homes going to help the area more than a state park? That is what this post is about right? The senseless ramblings you have made on this thread (see my previous post) have nothing to do with anything besides the fact that Ely is not where it once was economically. Tourist dollars from the park are better than no dollars at all.

pickle

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AMEN!!!!! That was my point as well. I agree with JG on some of things that need to happen to keep Ely afloat, but that's a whole new thread on it's own. Oh, JG, I know you'll read this. Like the Godfather says, "everytime I try to get out, they suck me back in"

[swamptiger]

I understand Justin's point of view - a steady $40-$50K job with benefits is much better than flipping hamburgers or trying to sell knick-knacks to the tourists for three months out of the year, however, this is really not an issue of mining versus tourism. What this is about is whether or not this particular piece of real estate should be turned into private (probably mostly seasonal) homes, or into a state park. As I said before, I have seen what too much private development does to a lake, and the outcome is not good.

[Steve Foss]

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Spoken like a true packsacker Steve.

Leaky and I graduated from Memorial High School in Ely in 1978. Our graduating class was around 120. The population of the town was a bit under 5300.

The town had mining, logging and tourism.

How big was the class of 2007? What's the population total on the signs entering town today?

There are still some families in town that are dependent on the mines - but nothing like it was. Lose those jobs, and the town will contract yet again, and the school district will suffer even more.

If some of the new mining ventures being discussed can make a go of it, the difference to the town would be profound. Young families, more money in the local economy - you'd have to have seen things 30 years ago to appreciate how different the town has become, and what it could be again.

Tourism will never fill the economic void left when the mines closed. As a former mayor of Ely once quipped "how many knick-knack shops can one town support?"

As for the taconite tax funds Justin - you might want to ask a few pointed questions about how that money has been spent over the years - - much of it squandered looooong before the current governor.

Chopsticks anyone? How about engineered stone? Spent much time at that sterling attraction known as IronWorld? I sometimes ponder where all of that money went, but it just gives me a headache....

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Jackpine Rob, you got me wrong. So let me clarify in a way I should have taken the time to do initially.

I didn't say a tourist economy was a GOOD way to run a town (it's not). I simply said that's what it is NOW, and people do make livings here. Tourist/service economies pay generally low/seasonal wages, which don't allow families raising children to make much of a living, so relatively few families locate here. That is the single largest reason the school has been in decline and will almost certainly stay that way for awhile longer, before perhaps leveling out at some point.

Ely's economy is driven today largely by two things: Those who come to visit and those who maintain seasonal homes. Not completely driven by those two, but almost. So we are a tourist/service economy, and virtually all we have left of a formerly deep and healthy little economy is a result of that. I say "we" rather than "you," Rob, because whether you like it or not I'm one of those incomers, and I earn and spend money here, contributing to the local economy in the city of your birth, where I now call home.

Is this economy we've got now a good one? Not for families, and I don't think it's a good economy for a community, either. So, Jackpine, I was not in any way defending a tourist economy and I don't like them, myself. I'd rather see a wide combination of industry, high tech, tourism, logging, etc. I have absolutely no doubt that the varied local economy that was a combination of logging, mining and tourism a few decades ago produced a much healthier community.

That being said, it seemed to me Justin was missing the point that Ely is in fact stuck with tourism now, and that's what prompted my comments.

And I'm not going to fall into the packsacker vs native thing as you've done. You can call me whatever you like and it doesn't change anything. All labels do is damage a decent discussion.

What does any of this in Ely have to do with development and state parks around Vermilion? Quite a lot, because there are many parallels.

[Cliff Wagenbach]

Steve,

Well said!

I have lived in Tower since 1957 and have also seem all of the changes happen here that have happened to Ely. HATE IT, but that is just the way that our towns have evolved and all that any of us can do is to try to make this evolution fit in with the way that we all would like to live, at least to some degree!

PS, I am probably still considerd a "Packsacker" here also!

Cliff

[Steve Foss]

Cliff, thanks. I haven't even been here long enough even to be called a packsacker, really. I think Jackpine Rob was honoring me with that label, giving me a little more status among the locals than I actually have.

Just joshin' ya Rob. It's all good.

Probably because of my newspaper career (which I just ended this summer) I think I know more than I really do. Pretty common attitude among newspaper people. I know, we suck.

If I decided to start another family and had a couple more kids while living in Ely, and if they grew up here and attended the declining school and graduated with the seven other seniors that will likely be the graduating class size in 2026, then, and then only MAYBE, would my kids not be considered packsackers. Even then, they'd never be considered locals. Well, they MIGHT have a chance if they change their names to Fossancich, Laitafoss or Smrekfoss.

[upnorth]

There is something about the "Range" communities and not being born and raised here where you will always be an outsider. Moved up here to Chisholm in "99" and I am nowhere near being really accepted. There are a few exceptions, but not many.

The economies of most communites North of the Twin Cities have changed dramatically in the last 20 or so years. I grew up in Duluth prior to moving up here and I can tell you things there for the Blue Collar guys have changed pretty close to as much as Ely, Tower and other Range cities. I worked for several larger manufacturing places that closed the doors and came close a couple times to packing it in and moving south(Then my screen name woulda been downsouth ) I suffered through more than a few lay offs to stay in the Northland and paid the price financially. If you want the life style sometimes you gotta make some sacrifices. "Not all that glitters is Gold"

[minndonn]

A good small community is one where it takes 25 years to be a local but you feel welcome in 5 minutes.

My family has been state park campers for over 30 years with an occasional stay at state or federal campgrounds. 20 years ago when our kids were young the parks offered a lot for the family. Most parks had lifeguards who kept the beaches raked and clean plus safer. Now the beaches do not get the attention the guards had time to do and some are overrun by geese which have made the beach dirty and possibly unhealthy. Very few have naturalists and no rotating programs at the parks. We used to decide which park to go to by the rotating naturalist programs. Our kids also learned a lot. Also the maintenance at the parks has been reduced. With the reductions many parks offer little more than the forest campgrounds. That is why I have started staying at the forest campgrounds more often. Look in the camping forum for Budget Cuts.

I am very glad they are going to do a State Park at Vermillion but am concerned they will not fund it adequately as they do not do now with the other parks and also will the addition of another larger park reduce the budgets for the existing parks. As busy as the state parks are getting (North Shore) we need more places to go expecially since so many private campgrounds have closed.