90,000 + Hooking Mortality

[skunked_again]

I use one of those cheap plastic hook removers. It is not even a pliers, it is a straight plastic with a noch in it. The hook goes into this noch and the sharp edge fits around the outside. Kinda hard to explain, but even if you gut hook a walleye (which one should avoid), the hook pops out every time in short order. They are under a dollar, and are sold at every bait shop.

But back to the original subject. Why should anyone feel guilty catching 20, 30 or 100 walleyes in a day? Lets not forget that these are fish, not human beings, and they are there for us to catch. If a couple here and there or even 10% die, so be it. That's the price one pays for fishing. And the DNR is more than cautious when managing this situation. I agree as someone said earlier: educate. There are a lot of inexperienced anglers that fish mille lacs because it is such a wonderful fishery, and you have to expect that some people just don't know what they are doing. I think the DNR should give out pamphlets as well, rather than the DNR officers sit at the landing giving speeches about invasive species.

[james_walleye]

Am i reading this post right. You dont want people too be fishing Mille Lacs right now because of possible hooking mortality but you would like too see Mille Lacs open 12 months a year. So its not OK too fish right now, but you think it would be ok too fish the big pigs when they are in spawning mode and the most vulnerable they will be all year??

I'd be willing too bet alot of $$ the fish people see floating are being released by the people described in this post. Its unreal what you see on that lake. When i saw what was going on i was surprised i didnt see more fish floating. I think if everyone on the lake (not going too happen) had great release habits (needlenose ready, cut the hook it need be, dont do surgury, camera handy if need, ruler handy) the mortality rate wouldn't be near what it is. If you have 15% of the eyes dying after release you can bet almost all of them are from people who wont get the fish back in the water quick enough. The 85 out of 100 that survive are from people who have their crap together and do what they can too get that fish back in quickly. I dont believe mortality is a numbers game. Its a knowledge game. If you dont know any better, you dont have your "tools" handy, and you dont have a sense of urgency when it comes too getting that eye back in the water, well thats when the mortality issue kicks in and you get fish floating.

[MuleShack]

Quote:

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I think this is an interesting idea, and in theory, "should" work very effectively. There is obviously a learning curve involved with fishing circles and not setting the hook but I bet we'd see a lot less gut hooked fish with circle hook live bait rigs.

Obviously, this doesn't solve the problem of overhandling and improper handling of a fish in the boat, but it lessons the chance of having to overhandle a fish to dig out a deep hook.

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If all the "rookies" or what ever you want to call them folks that keep a fish out of water for 5 minutes and let it bounce around the boat would have to use circle hooks, maybe they wouldn't have the "success" to be able to contribute to the mortality figure.

Truthfully, I like the idea of the circle hook or maybe barbless hooks on the lake ONLY.

They have barbless lakes in canada, so why not have them on a premier lake like this where the majority of the fish you catch have to be released anyway....It would seem to only make sense as another thing that would improve the resource as well as recyle the large fish with out as much harm.

[MOBY RICHARD*]

Unfortunately the DNR recently "clarified' its position on keeping fish out of water for pictures, giving the Green Light for many of the abuses detailed in this post.

Also another DNR report assessed Mortality on Mille Lacs from Walleye Tournaments at 40%.

Also a report by WI DNR on Muskies hooked in the gut, line cut and then immediately released at 83% over one year.

A Texas report on Bass hooked in the throat indicated Mortality of 22% after only 72 hours!

Many of these fish died over periods of time after release due to infection from the hook injury.

It is time we quit pretending there is little or no impact from Catch and Release...

[fishorgolf]

James Walleye, Please read my posts again and tell me were did I ever stated I don't want people fishing ML? What I said was is that people should think about the consequences of catching and realeasing 20 walleyes a day and show some personal restraint when it is best for the lake and those that make there living from it.

I agree that the hooking mortality rate is higher for the "people described in this post" than "people who have there crap together" but they also don't C&R 20 - 30 fish a day. So yes it is a numbers game.

Also..obviously when I stated I want the lake to be a 12 month fishery I wasn't talking walleye fishing all year. Wake up man and smell the coffee.

[fishhawk1750]

It sounds to me that people shouldn't be allowed to take pictures or net fish in this lake. Maybe they should just cut the line when the fish comes to the side of the boat and it is over 20 inches. Just a thought.

[rmrakt]

Yup....or put a timer on your boat...>DING ....get off the lake or you will ruin the fishery!

This lake has been pounded before, has had many floaters before, and has had dead sea time before. The DNR has handled these situations just fine as defined by the current condition of the fishery.

The DNR is learning more and more about this lake as time goes by. Allow them to do their job along with fishermen using common sense.

[hunting4walleyes]

Boy the sarcasm is running deep in this thread. Just remember guys, these are peoples opinions! There is no reason to throw them on the grill and sizzle them for their opinion. Either listen to, or ignore their opinion. The bickering and nasty posts just hurt you and this site. This is a very heated topic right now, just use a little discretion when posting.

[Nova]

I will not quit fishing due to this and I am there every weekend. That being said I do change the way I fish when the bite is this good and the mortality is high. Instead of targeting the for sure thing and catching 30 walleyes a day(which is a whole lot of fun) I use this time to try new things, new ways of fishing and finding different spots to fish. This keeps my success rate down, yet I am still fishing adn learning a whole bunch of new stuff.

[Mo Gator]

fishorgolf - Just wanted to throw my 2 cents at you about looking out for the area businesses - if you want what's best for the business of the lake it is silly to tell people to use restraint by staying away. Resort and baitshop owners do not want anglers to stay away, they obviously want and need our business. At this point in the season with the slowing bite and tightened slot the lake is going to see MUCH less pressure. The few of us who still target walleyes during this time should find no shame in doing so. The tiny amount of pressure the lake sees for the rest of Summer is not going to hurt it.

[james_walleye]

Oh yeah obviously, how did I miss that. Opening up the lake 12 months out of the year without walleyes, yeah that would really boost business.

Bottom line, a person who knows what their doing, does quick and good releases, does less damage releasing 200 walleyes than a boatload who doesnt and releases 10 walleyes. Thats not a numbers game. You are much better off educating than trying too tell someone they should quit fishing after catching 10 fish. I've heard the phrase 10% of the fisherman catch 90% of the fish. I'd bet that 10% of the fisherman create 90% of the floaters. Those are the people that need too be addressed rather than telling someone whos catching fish and using proper release habits too quit fishing after catching 10 fish.

Not sure why i need too wake up and smell the coffee. I've said nothing unreasonable. A boat catches 30 walleyes and 1 dies. Another boat catches and releases 6 walleyes and 3 dies. Which situation needs too be addressed? Thats whats called obvious.

[Faner50]

In my opinion, I think hooking mortality comes from all of us no matter the skill level. These fish are biting because there isn't much forage in lake IMO. Pull those big old weak under fed ladies up from 30 ft in the dead of summer and some are going to die no matter how quick you handle them. Again, in my opinion, it is pretty obvious that the DNR isn't trying to save fish under 14 or above 16. THEY ARE TRYING TO CUT DOWN ON THE FISHERMAN without shuting down the fishing businesses. It is a numbers game. 15,000 lbs left and we hit the 449,000 angler quota. I myself, would feel quilty, launching a boat full well knowing I'm not gonna catch slot fish, just those big mothers out there and 2 of 10 are going to croke no matter how well I handle them. 2 dead 4 pounders = 8 pounds dead which = 4, 2 pounders within slot. Same, same eh? What to do, oh what to do ???? Should I or shouldn't I fish the dead sea.

As to the businesses around Mille Lacs, I feel a bit sorry for them but on the other hand, they knew full well what they were getting into when they started or bought the business. With a decrease in business,(supply and demand) maybe they ought to jack up their prices (like they do with road fees during the winter).

Who knows but it is an interesting situation full of politics, debate, economics and our sporting futue.

[james_walleye]

I think some people are mistaking what im saying. If the mortality rate on Mille Lacs is 15% (not sure what the real number is right now) thats an average. If all people used great habits it wouldnt be near 15%. If all people used poor habits it would be more like 90%. If you go catch and release 10 walleyes and use great habits, your not going too kill 2 fish. Unfortunately because of the average the DNR will assume 2 fish did die. They assume so because the next boat releases 10 fish and half of them or more go belly up. Get more people too use great habits and the average mortality goes down. Now the DNR can change their numbers and we see less of the quota every year go too mortality. So yeah in that aspect its a numbers game. What im saying is that because the average might be 15% doesnt mean that if you use good habits that 15% of the fish will die. And likewise if you use poor habits, only 15% of them will die. What im saying is get a system down, get the fish back in the water quickly, and you shouldnt have too feel guilty about catching and releasing 20 walleyes. Its not straight forward that if you hammer them in a day and catch 45 fish that 8 will die. Use good practices and it will not be that high. Thats why i say its not a numbers game. Its a knowledge game. The more you know, the more effecient your are, the less fish that die.

[Faner50]

Well james, you numbers may well be correct. BUT...Dept of Natural Resources calculated mortality and total catch numbers govern the future end result meaning the lake stays open or closed based on their slide rule and not yours or mine. The only way to be accurate is to put on the scuba gear and that isn't gonna happen.

If those public and private accesses remain full of trailers, and the launches remain full as well, then the DNRs slide rule is going to calculate some pretty high numbers. Throw in another coming week of temps in the 90s and numbers get higher.

I'm not trying to upset anyone just stating what I think. I hope all turns out a win/win for all involved.

[james_walleye]

I dont doubt the DNR's numbers and your right about what might happen. I dont know how too do it, im just saying if we could somehow educate some people on how important it is too be effecient we wouldnt have near the mortality rate we do. Hence we wouldnt have too allocate so much of the overall harvest numbers too it.

[fishorgolf]

James, James, James. I do not want to get into a verbal spare with you but AGAIN were did I say 12 months without walleye fishing?

How do you KNOW 1 fish dies when you release 30?

[fishorgolf]

Well put Fanner50!!!

[james_walleye]

You first said you thought the lake should be open 12 months of they year. Then you replied and said obviously you werent talking about walleyes open 12 months of the year. So OK, walleye season will stay the way it is? And what will be open 12 months of the year too draw business in? Thats what im asking.

I dont know 1 fish in 30 dies. It may be 1 in 50 for someone doing it right. 3 of us released 18 fish on saturday, how do you know if any of them died?

Just nevermind. My bad for thinking that educating people is the answer too reducing mortality. I guess i'll just be glad so many people do it right. Its impossible too educate everyone out there anyway i guess.

[fishorgolf]

James, When I say a 12 month fishery I mean a full season for every species. I don't know if I can explain this any better anymore.

I personally have released allot of fish this year and I believeI have practiced good C&R, max. 30 seconds out of water, rubber nets, wet hands when needed, cut line if any question but I am not going to even begin to claim some of them didn't die. I want to believe they didn't because every one swan away likie they had some place to go but I know that is not the case just because I didn't see them float to the surface.

All I have ever wanted to point out is that when the fishing is so good as it has been on ML this year please use some restraint and think about how this will effect the harvest limit for the year. Not just lets take what we can because we can.

Let's all work to keep this great lake a great all year fishery for everyone to enjoy!!!

[james_walleye]

I just think its hard too tell someone who gets too the lake once or twice a year and drives hours too get there too do what your saying. I made my first and possibly only venture of the year too the lake saturday and if someone would have suggested that too me when i have one day on the lake i would have said "ur crazy dude"!

[fishorgolf]

I am not refering to the people that come up/down and spend a few days on the big lake. What I refering to is the many posts on this form from people claiming to catch 20-30 fish a day over and over again (look at June posts) and then claim they are not killing fish because they are such great fisherman. The guy that catches 2 and kills 2 once a year does less against the quota than the guy who catches 100 and kills 10. Enough said on this.

Everyone keep up the catch reports!

[Willy]

I know what FG is saying.

The bite is tougher now no doubt and the pressure would decrease whether they changed the slot or not.

What he is saying is when it's so dam easy to go out and slaughter them, that people don't need to go there day in, day out and just whail away at em all day long.

There almost comes a point when it is too easy and catching 20-30 fish doesn't really "feel" real out there. Not trying to keep people away or anything, but like he said catching 30 fish a day on Mille Lacs (this year during the prime period) is not an unreal accomplishment. Everybody does it. Go try some other lakes. What he is saying, I think, is don't always just run to the "easy" bite and beat it to smitherines.

[magnumthunder]

Well I'm heading up there in 2 weeks hoping to catch 20 or 30 a day. This will be my first time up there this year and second ever. I'll do the best I can on the releasing part. Some sound selfish because they fish it a lot and are noticing problems. I feel sorry for the ones who have to clean there shore line but thats being a property owner for ya. I live near a school And have to clean up candy wrappers and papers all the time. We should change the rules there too. NO more candy and papers to take home. Living on a gravel road is hard on plants,aninals and other things too. Block the road so no one can drive on it unless it raining. Sorry but I'm going to see if I can catch the fish of a lifetime.

[EyesFishin]

I was just up there last weekend and 3 of us boated 23 walleyes. We were quick. Got our pictures with the big ones and back into the water. Even had to cut a few lines because the fish were hammering our baits and swallowing the hook. We watched one boat with 3 guys catch a nice fish, let it flop on the floor for 5 minutes. Don't know if they were trying to hide their catch. (Hello guys, it's Mille Lacs, we all saw) And then had to pass the fish around to each other, to each get a picture with a fish one guy caught. Atleast 8 minutes out of the water. No clue at all.

[fisherslanding]

very well said just cut the line when its in the GUTS.....

[Faner50]

I have fished Mille lacs for 26 years. Fishing, for me anyway, had its ups and downs until 2002. That year was tremendous. Skinny fish after skinny fish just hammered most any technique designed for walleye fishing. Hooking a leech and dropping it into the depths was like a guy sitting in the back of a United Nations truck throwing loaves of bread to a starving crowd. It has happened again this year. It's again a "no skill involved" fishery.

We were on a flat. My cell phone rang. I put my rod in a rod holder and answered my phone. While talking on the phone, my rod bent. Still holding the phone, I grabbed the rod from its holder, pulled slightly and the circle hook set into a 24 incher. With my shoulder holding the phone to my ear, I reeled it in, unhooked her and let her swim off. It was 1:30 in the afternoon, dead calm and near 90 degrees and streams of mayflies floating the surface. I'd never seen fishing like 02, 06 and again this year. Crazy.

Now, the DNR says 15,000 lbs left to kill to fill the angling quota. I would LOVE to go to Mille Lacs again but I struggle with a decision to go or not. Catching those pigs has been really really exciting and fun BUT.....

What to do, what to do. ?????????????

[ASMOLEY]

Maybe we should have a lottery for walleye permits to fish

[tight_line]

Quote:

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I'd never seen fishing like 02, 06 and again this year. Crazy.

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Seen it one other time in 1992, an absolute blast.

There is one common factor to these kinds of years and that is a low forage base in the lake.

I'm going to think out of the box once here. Let's say that there is a pattern happening with a series of years of low forage, and I mean minnows and YOY Perch and Tullibee, there seem to always be plenty of bugs. One could conclude that is because of a tremendous amount of large Walleye's, Northern, Muskie, and Smallmouth that are cleaning the lake out of food every year. If so, then a harvest target of 22-26" Walleye may deplete the population enough to where the forage may have a chance to grow into large enough numbers to balance the food chain out. The problem is, I for one, do not care to kep and eat that size of fish.

Again, just thinking out of the box

[fishorgolf]

Yes Willy this is exactly what I am trying to say.

[kimmydoll]

Luv to stay and listen to differing views, but I have to go fishing.