I wonder............

[zamboni]

Are the Twins the first team in Major League history to have back to back, everyday 1st Basemen and Catchers to throw right and bat left? Doug Mientkiewicz to Justin and AJ to Joe. Weird.

[zamboni]

OH- PS, I am not going to post the link on here, but if you look up Justin Morneau on wikipedia, they have posts and edits locked out on it and it says- "in order to deal with vandalism" I kinda wonder if he wasn't being bad mouthed by all the people that are/were saying he didn't deserve the MVP award.

[bassNspear]

that is weird

[schweady]

Actually, not all that surprising that stuff like that happens if you've ever read any of the comments folks make on the Yankees' fan forum websites...

[zamboni]

They are (Contact Us Please)- without Morneau the Twins wouldn't have put up one of the best comebacks after the All-Star break in MLB history. Without Jeter the Yanks still woulda won their division.

[PierBridge]

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that is weird

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Not really thats the way Wikipedia works.

No chance the Yanks win the division last year without Jeter.

[Mudcutter]

I second that notion pier, the best SS of all time hitting .318 for his life, deserves a little respect. Oh yeah- Jeter has won how many titles??? Derek Jeter is the best baseball player in all aspects of the game in the last 12 years. and some (Contact Us Please) says he doesn't matter to his team?? Your crazy. Start follwing MLB a little closer and look at some career numbers every once in awhile.

[Jarrod32]

MVP doesn't take career stats into account. It is MVP for a given year. If career stats were considered, Ken Griffey Jr would be a serious contender year in and year out right now.

[zamboni]

Best SS of all time? PLEASE. Wasn't AROD a SS before he came to NY? I think I would have to give him a second look fellas. Defensively, Ozzie Smith is the greatest SS of all-time. Bar None. I think Cal Ripken did pretty well for a year or 15. Ever heard of Ernie Banks? What about a guy whose face appears on the Holy Grail of Baseball cards, Honus Wagner. I could go on and on all freakin' night, PLEASE don't tell me to study baseball or career numbers. I am the 1 out of 5000 people in America right now that would much rather be at a baseball game than an NFL game. I live for Baseball- I used to sit at Kauffman Stadium cheering on a team that would most certainly lose 90-100 games a year (except when I would go to a Twins-Royals game, then its a no-brainer). The Yankees would have won their division last year if Jeter wasn't around, without Morneau, the Twins would have finished 3rd or even 4th in their division.

[SledNeck]

Derek Jeter is probably the best SS ever. His stats blow Cal Ripken's away.

[SledNeck]

career avg.

Jeter .317

Ripken .276

WOW!

[Spinner1]

Another vote for Jeter. I'm pretty surprised to see him getting any love here. Shows the objectivity of this forum. Jeter may or may not be THE best ever, but you can't brush it off like he isn't even in serious consideration Zamboni. Jeter does as much to help his team win as Ozzie ever did. More IMO.

[jigging-matt]

You have to look past just the stats. Jeter is a great shortstop, (greatest of all time hard to say), but some of the leadership and consistency he brings to the team is unbeleivable. There are lots of shortstops with greater range, some with better arms, but would be hard to find another in todays game with his leadership and class. I am a Twins fans thru and thru, and hate the Yankees, but am always a fan of a classy ballplayer like Jeter.

[zamboni]

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Another vote for Jeter. I'm pretty surprised to see him getting any love here. Shows the objectivity of this forum. Jeter may or may not be THE best ever, but you can't brush it off like he isn't even in serious consideration Zamboni. Jeter does as much to help his team win as Ozzie ever did. More IMO.

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You are absolutely right. I am wrong. World Champs in 82, NL Champs in 82,85,87 had nothing to do with Ozzie. Read my last entry again- Ozzie Smith is the best defensive SS ever. There is no argument. is there a mention about Ozzie being the best of all-time? NO- hes the best defensive SS. I think even Vizquel had a better glove in his heyday. I don't know why you guys are so high on Jeter, he DID NOT deserve the MVP last year- the voters got it right. That is what I am saying. You think Cals career BA may have suffered a little because he never took a game off, and maybe even hung around a year or two too long before retiring? Jeter IS a great SS, and a great hitter- but the Yankees have a great team surrounding him, and if he were replaced by a mediocre SS, there is a very good chance they would go to the post season year after year like they do. If you haven't figured out Steinbrenner buys titles, you should have no say about it.

[zamboni]

BTW- BEFORE ANY OF YOU even start about me saying that Vizquel had a better glove than Jeter:

RAWLINGS GOLD GLOVES TOTALS-

OZZIE SMITH:13 (CONSECUTIVE)

OMAR VIZQUEL:9 American League (CONSECUTIVE)

2 National League (CONSECUTIVE)

Derek Jeter:3 (CONSECUTIVE)

AROD won the 2 previous between Vizquels last AL and Jeters first. Bet Jeter was glad they shifted AROD to 3rd, probably still wouldn't have one. I have to say, people are jumping all down my throat over Ozzie and Cal, but noone has even talked about AROD- if you think Jeter is better at SS both offensively and defensively, you are wrong. I stand by my original post, you can post all the lifetime BA and other stats- Jeter might be in the top 10 of all time SS, but he definitely isn't #1 or even top 5.

[maros91]

I am 28 yrs old and Ozzie Smith played when I was a little kid. I didn't get to see him play much but I know he was a hell of a defensive shortstop. I grew up watching the other three people talked about here(Jeter,Vizquel,A-Rod). Out of the three there is nobody better with the glove or bare hand than Vizquel. He has made some unreal plays over the years. A-Rod is by far the cream of the crop when it came to shortstops.(Power and glove). But there is more to the game than just hitting and fielding and that is were Jeter comes in. His is a good hitter and good fielder but an excellent leader. He has been the captain of the Yanks for sometime now and that is a hard thing to do in New York. A-Rod would have been the best shortstop ever if he didn't get traded to New York. It is hard to list a top 5 since I really didn't follow baseball until 1987 when the Twins won their first World series and I was only 8 yrs old but I grew up watching A-Rod at short and I think he had a 40/40 season with a gold glove? A-Rod will end up breaking Bond's record here in the next few years. If A-Rod ever gets out of New York his numbers will go up even yet.

[zamboni]

Thank you, Biff. That was well stated. Jeter is by far the leader of the Yankees, and the captain for a reason. My point is alot of people on here saying hes the greatest SS of all-time, no way.

[Mudcutter]

I agree with the above posts. the whole deal started with Morneau and Jeter and whose more valuable to their team last year. Just one year. I guess then it's a wash. But when you throw a Jeter in the mix for what he means to his team over the years-- (hopefully I'am still around in 10-12 years) in 10-12 years I'll take Jeter's #'s over Justin's anytime, and especially when it counts in OCT. Look at Jeter's postseason stats and fielding. that just about wipes away all other SS performance in postseason. Ripken?? Banks?? Give me Jeter all the time. It's not even close. Wagner??? my goodness he played half his games in the pre-modern era and hit .328 lifetime when the game doesn't even have the same rules as today, thus it's tough to compare different time frames,, but give me Jeter at SS.

ALso for 2nd base-- give me Rogers Hornsby. Look up his #'s sometime. lifetime .358 avg and hit for power and the highest avg of all time in one year .424 (1924). and that was with the same rules we have today. (Modern Era)---

I'll also take Walter Johnson over Cy Young for those who give a rip.

[PierBridge]

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Bet Jeter was glad they shifted AROD to 3rd, probably still wouldn't have one.

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Thinking A-Rod is better than Jeter defensively is the funniest thing I've heard today.

You wouldn't find one manager, general manager or any major league baseball player that would take A-Rod on their team over Jeter..

Ozzie Smith was a lifetime .260 hitter....

Omar Vizquel was in the 270's....

I can't stand the Yanks!!!!

[zamboni]

No, you thinking Jeters better is the joke. AROD had to CHANGE position. Guys been playing SS all his life, and gets moved to 3rd. Give me a break. Jeter paying you guys? I am done with this issue- I SIMPLY STATED MORNEAU WAS MORE DESERVING OF THE MVP LAST YEAR- then all this crap. You guys need to quit commenting on the Twins, and start a Yankee forum, sounds like you're all more on their bandwagon

[PierBridge]

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I SIMPLY STATED MORNEAU WAS MORE DESERVING OF THE MVP LAST YEAR-

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We certainly agree on that....

[zamboni]

Quote:

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Bet Jeter was glad they shifted AROD to 3rd, probably still wouldn't have one.

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Thinking A-Rod is better than Jeter defensively is the funniest thing I've heard today.

You wouldn't find one manager, general manager or any major league baseball player that would take A-Rod on their team over Jeter thats about as laughable as it gets.

Ozzie Smith was a lifetime .260 hitter....LOL

Omar Vizquel was in the 270's....LOL

This is getting good in here....LOL

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VIZQUEL CAREER FIELDING % .984

O SMITH CAREER FIELDING % .978

AROD CAREER FIELDING % .977

JETER CAREER FIELDING % .975

WHOS LAST???????????????????????????????

[maros91]

A-Rod is better than Jeter defensively at SS. A-Rod would have about 10 gold gloves if he don't move to third. I would say A-Rod struggles defensively at third but so would Jeter if he got moved there. Here are some numbers to ponder over. These numbers are with A-Rod and his 8 years as a SS and Jeter with his 10 years at SS:

Total errors at SS

Rodriguez: 131

Jeter: 173

Field Pct

A-Rod: .977

Jeter: .975

Offensive Numbers

A-Rod: .310 AVG 340 HR 969 RBI 170 SB

Jeter: .317 AVG 183 HR 853 RBI 249 SB

I bet all but one general manager takes A-Rod over Jeter. I'll give leadership to Jeter and that is about it. A-Rod is on tough S.O.B. He hits 35 HR and drives in 121 and people in NY are calling for his head.

[zamboni]

Biff I don't know what to think about these guys- Jeter, Jeter, Jeter. I had him on my fantasy team and traded his rear end for Tejada- can't rely on Jeter to hit me any HRs. AROD anyday.

[PierBridge]

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A-Rod is better than Jeter defensively at SS.

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Nobody could possibly believe that A-ROID could ever play shortstop again."see Chuck Knoblauch LOL" he's to fat and slow to have any chance to play shortstop at the major league level. The Steroids killed any chance for him to even be an average defensive player at any position.

He can still hit the ball.... except when it matters most. "CHOKER"

Yes Omar and Ozzie were better defensively then Jeter.

Other then that neither could carry Jeters jock strap.

Keep sticking your feet in your mouths this is fun!...

[maros91]

Quote:

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These numbers are with A-Rod and his 8 years as a SS and Jeter with his 10 years at SS:

Total errors at SS

Rodriguez: 131

Jeter: 173

Field Pct

A-Rod: .977

Jeter: .975

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Numbers don't lie me boy.

[PierBridge]

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Numbers don't lie me boy.

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IF 'IFS, ANDS OR BUTS' WERE CANDY AND NUTS.

Shoulda woulda coulda....

Actually the numbers do lie if you factor in A-Rod's career at shorstop back when he was a very good shortstop and 40lbs lighter he played on artificial turf and indoors versus Jeter who plays outdoors on a real field.....NEWS FLASH...big difference!

Is there anything else I can clear up for you guys.

[Willy]

Sorry Pier. You are wrong about part of this one.

Most any manager or team or anyone with much of a brain would take A-rod over Jeter. Jeter is good, there is no doubt and yes he may be on the all-time list as far as shortstops go, but his numbers aren't near as good as A-rod in almost any category.

Why are you talking should, woulda, coulda? These other guys are giving stats and you are giving intagibles and excuses.

P.S. I do not care for either Jeter or A-rod and I do not think Jeter deserved the MVP over Morneau last year either.

[jigging-matt]

Pier, How do you figure that Ozzie couldn't carry Jeter's Jock? 13 gold gloves and a stellar fielding percentage. As I stated in past post Jeter does have some intangibles, such as leadership, But Ozzie was also that type of leader in his day. Morneau deserved MVP last year, and Jeter is a great player, but not the greatest shortstop who ever played.

[PierBridge]

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Pier, How do you figure that Ozzie couldn't carry Jeter's Jock?

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I already said Ozzie WAS a better feilder....UMMM I'm pretty sure there is more to baseball then fielding "back flips don't count" like maybe hitting!!!!!!!!!!!!! I haven't checked the STATS but I would venture to say Jeters worst year would be better then Ozzies best year offensively......