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Questor

Some tests of Sufix 30# Performance Braid

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Questor

I made an earlier post on the topic of how I could not cast 30# Sufix Performance Braid using 1.5 to 2 ounce weights. The line snapped when I cast for distance.

As a follow-up I went down to the workshop tonight with a bunch of line and my Berkley digital fish scale. I know the scale to be pretty accurate and consistent because I have tested tonight it with known weights varying from under a pound to 25 pounds (gallons of milk, quarts of motor oil, various athletic weights, packages of meat that had been weighed on a certified scale, etc.). The scale is rated to 30 pounds. It seems to read a bit heavy, about 5 to 10 percent (i.e., 10 pounds reads closer to 11 pounds.)

I measured the breaking strength of the following lines by tying a snap to one end with a palomar knot, and a no-slip loop knot to the end that engaged the scale. Pull was steady and slow so I could read the scale. The lines never broke at the knot, always in the length of line between the knots.

Here are the results:

new 30# Sufix Performance Braid broke 14.5 to 15.1 pounds

used 30# Power Pro broke at 15.5 pounds

new 30# Power Pro broke at 17.1 pounds

new Trilene XL 8# broke at 7.8 pounds

new Sufix Elite 8# broke at 8.1 pounds

new Berkley Vanish Transition 12# broke at 2 pounds on the first test and 4.1 pounds on the second test.

new Western Filament 30# dacron broke at 14.5 pounds

new Cortland Micron 20# dacron broke at 9 to 9.5 pounds

new Berkley Trilene XL 12# broke at 9.2 pounds

I think these are reliable measurements. As I said, the scale is pretty accurate and consistent, and the breaking strengths felt like they were consistent with the results I got from the scale.

Still wanting some more testing on the Sufix 30# Power Braid and Cortland 20# dacron, I used a set of athletic weights of known weight. I used no-slip loop knots and very gently lifted the weights with the line. Results were within a couple of pounds of what I measured with the scale.

All lines were dry. Are these lines stronger when wet? Some would have to be twice as strong to meet their rated test weight.

Almost needless to say, I immediately discarded the Vanish, which is a bad line for other reasons too.

While it's nice to know that I could qualify for IGFA records with these lines, I really expect them to test at least their rated weight.

Have you actually measured breaking strength of any of these lines? What results did you get?

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slotlimit

Where is the Fireline test?

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slipperybob

You can also test shock strength. I.e. tie a five pound weight to line, raise weight up one feet and free drop.

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Questor

I don't use Fireline and don't have any applications for it.

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ocf1

Questor, just an fyi... that is not how lb. test is tested, It is tested with a tensile tester so these results only show coparrison with other, all reaks will happen at the knot because of the 90 degree angle which makes the line at the knot weaker...., I am doing this for a science fair project right now, it'll e interesting how it turns out.

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Ralph Wiggum

I know you can call Power Pro and they will have you send some line in for testing and let you know how it turns out. I got a bad spool once and they sent me a new spool right away and tested my old line.

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HawgTide

There's a sport fishing magazine that has done a more scientific test (sorry, not allowed to post link) and all of the tested Braids tested out more than their rated break strengths. Suffix 20lb tested at 23.4lbs and PP 20lb tested at 33lbs.

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DTro

You did use a Palomar knot right?

That line should not be breaking at that strength. Something is not right.

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Kyle Sandberg

I did my own little test at home after reading this. I used the 6lb spiderwire supermono. I had it break at 5 lbs and 11 oz. Pretty close to the test on the box. I might try a few more tommorow and let you know how it goes.

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Leif

Just on a first hand note, I would NEVER, NEVER use Suffix again. Maybe its improved, but last time I used it the stuff was stiff and made poor nots. Plus it broke on me a lot. I just really don't like it. I use power pro thats some pretty good stuff. also, if you can find it, Gorilla line is really good as well.

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Questor

dtro:

The line never broke at the knot.

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DTro

10-4

I would not use it for sure then. I think I would contact the manufacturer. It could be a bad lot.

Switch to powerpro wink.gif

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Random guy

Quote:

10-4

I would not use it for sure then. I think I would contact the manufacturer. It could be a bad lot.

Switch to powerpro
wink.gif


Dtro is on to something, I got a spool of Spiderwire Stealth once that was horrible, it must have been the run off when they where making it. The spool was short and texture was odd, it would break if you looked a it wrong.

As for the Suffix, I'll keep using it-

4673flatheadvy4.jpg

outdoors1vl4.jpg

The Flathead wrapped around a submerged log twice and the pike was caught on a 90* angle around a boulder, Suffix has my approval.

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Questor

dtro:

You may want to review the details of my original post.

The issue isn't specific to Sufix, it applies to Power Pro too. See my comparison of Sufix 30# braid to Power Pro 30# braid. They break at about the same pull. Also, I used two different lots of Sufix 30# and breaking strength was about the same.

The bigger issue here is that my tests simulate pulling on a fish or a log or a rock. In other words, a straight line pull. My understanding is that tensile strength is what the manufacturers test and they use a different methodology. I am not sure what that methodology is. My approach of testing the line as I use it seems reasonable. I also did some other tests that used a sudden jerk on the line instead of a straight steadily increasing pull. In those cases the line usually broke at the knot.

I would like to see other peoples test results.

This whole thing is similar to the advent of chronographs in the shooting sports. Manufacturers used to claim higher bullet velocities than were actually obtainable. When chronographs got cheap enough so that the average hobbyist could afford one, the world found out what the actual velocities were. Consequently the manufacturers made their claims more realistic.

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Deitz Dittrich

I'm not doubting you.. but how are you sure, and how did you get the line to break and not the knot...All line tests I have ever done... always break at the knot or FROM the forming of the knot. The only line tests i ever did wher the knot didn't break, was because there was no knot.(many times wrapped around an object.)

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DTro

Questor, I work at a facility that does testing of this nature day in and out (wire tensile strength). I've done my own tests on PP and it has never failed at or below the advertised strength. More times than not it is much higher.

This is with specialized equipment, not a $50 digital scale.

That doesn't explain why the mono worked ok for you (perhaps smaller ratio of error of the scale at low strengths), but you can do what you like. If you don't trust it (suffix or any braid) don't use it. I've seen it tested the right way on expensive specialized equipment and trust it.

Let me follow that up by saying that all my tests were with 50+ pound braids. I cannot speak for the smaller diameter/strength braids, but the PP I have on my walleye rod has never failed me.

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Questor

Dtro:

Can you describe the tensile strength tests? There must be some fundamental difference between the way I did it and "the right way".

When I did my dead lift tests using athletic weights, I know the weights to be within a few ounces of their nominal weight. So even if my scale were wrong, the weights are not. This gives me a lot of confidence in my straight pull tests.

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DTro

Basically it is wrapped around a series of posts on both ends to eliminate any sort of stress fracture that would weaken the wire and skew the results.

One end of the tester has a digital force gauge that is attached to to a screw drive and programmable stepper motor. The amount and consistency of speed has a factor. A slow steady speed is usually the best.

Most of the stuff I deal with is wire and can usually be calculated without doing any tests using the kpsi of the particular material and the diameter of the wire.

I'm not trying to say you are wrong or doubting you, I just know what I've done and seen with large diameters. The smaller diameters may indeed have issues.

Either you are on to something or you are on something grin.gif

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Questor

Dtro:

Thanks for the information about how that works.

I have had really good results with the Palomar and No-slip loop knot, so that's why I used them. If, for example, I used an improved clinch knot, then I did experience breaks at the knot.

The details of my method were:

1) Cut a 4-foot length of line.

2) Tie a no-slip loop knot in one end. This is the end I put on my fish scale's hook.

3) Tie a small duo-lock snap to the other end of the line using a Palomar knot.

4) Clamp the snap into my bench vise

5) Hook the other end of the line to my scale

6) Watch the scale as I pulled gently and slowly, gradually increasing my pull. Since the line never broke at or near a knot, I don't think the knots were a factor.

For the athletic weights part of the test, I did the following:

1) Tied No-slip loop knots to both ends of a 3 foot length of line.

2) Attach one end of the line to a dumbell bar. Add weights to one end of the dumbell.

3) Attach the other end of the line to another dumbell bar. I used this second bar to lift the weights.

4) Gradually and very slowly and gently lift the weights. Again, the line never broke at a knot. Breaking weights were consistent with what I measured with the scale, but was not as precise because I could only increase the weight in 2.5 pound increments.

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ocf1

I had emailed pure fishing about about how they test their line and got this:

Strength is amount of cohesive forces within a monofilament that tend to withstand tow forces pulling in opposite directions of the monofilament. It is measured in pounds or kilograms. When the externally applied forces are stronger than the binding forces between molecules the monofilament ruptures. This rupture point is called the “break load”. It is measured by clamping each end of the monofilament to be tested in the jaws of a tensile tester, applying a constant draw until the filament breaks, and determining the value from a gauge on the machine. The pound test or the kilogram test for that particular diameter of line is the value used to rate the line. This value (or a somewhat lower value) is the one placed on the label of the spool to be sold to the fisherman. The most widely used instrument and method for tensile testing is the universal tensile tester with a constant rate of elongation, with a gauge length of 10”, and the cross-head set to travel 10” per minute. This means a 10” section of mono is being pulled apart at the rate of 10 inches or 100% per minute. At the same time the pen is traveling up and along a paper chart. When the mono breaks the apex of the trace shows the break load while distance the distance the pen travels along the chart gives the elongation. A tensile strength of 100,000 psi is a good dividing line between general purpose and a stronger premium line.

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slotlimit

OCF1,

About 5 or 10 years ago I was watching Hank Parker and he was using a machine to test lines and pitch the palomar Knot. I don't remember what the poundage was the lines were breaking (mostly if not only mono back then)at but he used a bunch of different knots and the Palomar knot was the only one that didn't break at the knot. Which is when i started using it.

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Questor

slotlimit:

You may want to familiarize yourself with the no-slip loop knot. It is very unusual for it to break at the knot. It's a great replacement for knots like the Duncan loop, where you want the hook free to move with minimal influence from the line.

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slotlimit

Thanks for the info. I'll take a look at it.

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ocf1

I did some testing for my science fair today, i hooked up a 5 gaalon pail to the basketball and filled it with water until broken then weighed. All are 14# pound test

Trilene XL: 14,16,15.5 lb.

Trilene XT: 24,19,20.5,15 lb.

Spider wire (original braid): 10,10,14 lb.

stren super braid: 16,12,13 lb.

power pro:12 lb.

I dont know what happened to the braids, more testing tomorrow.

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Kyle Sandberg

Try wetting the braids. There is the theory that wet fabric is harder to tear the dry. I guess the same might apply to braids.

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