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Hmong Fisherman? I am!


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SO, learn the $@&* language. My girlfriend broke her neck, has no feeling what so ever in her legs from the waist down, and re-learned to walk after months of physical therapy. Yeah, she knew how to walk before the accident, but can you do it not being able to feel a thing. Try driving a car not being able to feel the pedals. The point, SHE LEARNED!!! Still trying to teach her to swim, ride a bike, and walk backwards without looking at her feet to see what they are doing. Got the doggy-paddle down so far, but learning. The lack of people understanding english is our inconvenience, not theirs!


In your own confusion or struggle to understand it is possible that you fail to see the point. The problem isn't the barriers in place. People overcome obstacles it's in our nature, you said it yourself your girlfriend learned to walk again. Inconveniences is something we all have to deal with in human life and it's never going to go away. Don't take it as a reason to fullfill your own opinions for the wrong conclusions. That won't solve anything but speculate blame.

Understand that people may break the law not because of who they are, or what they can and can't do. Do not mis-interpret that, it's no excuse. Again they break the rules because they think they can get away with it without getting caught. It's simply greed & intentional. (In the defence of new immigrants or those who really just don't know or the few individuals who are in actual need out of the norm to do so for viable reasons, it is a complete different story, even though it still wrong it is done unintentionally)

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Please forgive my ignorance.. but here is what I have always wondered and seriously do not understand.. why would Hmong people want to come here? To such a cold and foreign land? Isn't your part of the world very productive (biologically) and with a full and deep culture and history etc...?

What about your HOME?

I would NEVER in my LIFE leave my home.. Minnesota.. and move to Cambodia or Vietnam (or any other place that is SO different than my home!)...

I just could NOT imagine that.. moving to a place where I would have NO family ties, NO history, NO common language, and NO knowledge to the local wildlife.. the terrain, geology.. the fish, the climate, or the local culture etc... it's just beyond me!... I just have never understood this.

Please educate me... and many of us I would guess... since I haven't a clue why you would want to leave your home to move here.

Just curious.. I have no problems with US immigrants since my own family came from Norway and Sweden a hundred years ago or so.. (and yes... I do NOT understand that either... I went to school one year in Sweden and I cant believe my ancestors left.. I loved it there and miss it to this day 20 years later!)

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Please forgive my ignorance.. but here is what I have always wondered and seriously do not understand.. why would Hmong people want to come here? To such a cold and foreign land? Isn't your part of the world very productive (biologically) and with a full and deep culture and history etc...?

What about your HOME?

I would NEVER in my LIFE leave my home.. Minnesota.. and move to Cambodia or Vietnam (or any other place that is SO different than my home!)...

I just could NOT imagine that.. moving to a place where I would have NO family ties, NO history, NO common language, and NO knowledge to the local wildlife.. the terrain, geology.. the fish, the climate, or the local culture etc... it's just beyond me!... I just have never understood this.

Please educate me... and many of us I would guess... since I haven't a clue why you would want to leave your home to move here.

Just curious.. I have no problems with US immigrants since my own family came from Norway and Sweden a hundred years ago or so.. (and yes... I do NOT understand that either... I went to school one year in Sweden and I cant believe my ancestors left.. I loved it there and miss it to this day 20 years later!)


It is tough to say. The History of Hmong people is bleak in many instances. What is there to know about a culture that is possibly older than the Chinese culture or many other cultures out there of old times. They try to live in harmony with their own surroundings. Some may say where do you go if you don't have a place to call home? I guess for the Hmongs where they go is home. There is no Hmong country. No Hmong Flag. Many Hmongs assimiliate into the SouthEast Asian countries already. Just as your ancestors have assimiliated into America which now where they call home. Hmong simply is doing the same. To become an American and a loyal Citizen of this country.

They are here because of what else? The dream of living a better life.

Google.com is your best friend for resources about the Hmong people. Most immigrants here in the states are here because of the Vietnam War or the CIA and the U.S. government aid. You can say they fought along side with the U.S. as allies in the Wars. In return the U.S. Government granted them entry to the states to be free from persecution of the communist.

Here is a good place to start of who the Hmong are and why they are here: http://www.jefflindsay.com/Hmong_tragedy.html

What the Wikepedia says: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hmong_people

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You can say they fought along side with the U.S. as allies in the Wars.


Uh.. so what? Just because I fought in the (hypothetical) 'Minnesota war' and it ended.. I woud NOT want to pick up shop and move to Slovakia (or whoever helped us defeat the bad guys)... I would more than EVER love my home and stay there.

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You can say they fought along side with the U.S. as allies in the Wars.


Uh.. so what? Just because I fought in the (hypothetical) 'Minnesota war' and it ended.. I woud NOT want to pick up shop and move to Slovakia (or whoever helped us defeat the bad guys)... I would more than EVER love my home and stay there.


Hmmm.. last time I check the U.S. was and still is probably the best place to live in the world. No wonder so many immigrants want to live here right? We live in the greatest country in the world. I don't have a doubt in my mind on that no matter what anyone says.

I guess you really don't understand. Please re-read again my earlier post thoroughly before commenting. Again further your interest by searching or googling the info and I am sure you will come to an understanding. It will end your speculation.

Ask yourself why? What else can it be? To have a better life? Perhaps to avoid Genocide? Really what reasons were there? confused.gif

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Understand that people may break the law not because of who they are, or what they can and can't do. Do not mis-interpret that, it's no excuse. Again they break the rules because they think they can get away with it without getting caught. It's simply greed & intentional. (In the defence of new immigrants or those who really just don't know or the few individuals who are in actual need out of the norm to do so for viable reasons, it is a complete different story, even though it still wrong it is done unintentionally)


I think my third point already covered the aspect of "getting away with it". And again, with every race, there are those that do think they can do anything and get away with it.

And Andy, I would agree with you on what you said in reply to my post. Some Hmong families assimilate better then others, while others have a harder time.

I am hoping with my posts that other people besides the hmong people, can better understand us and judge us not by all the bad things but rather judge us as human beings. So for those of you who know very little about Hmongs, I hope this sheds some light.

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Please forgive my ignorance.. but here is what I have always wondered and seriously do not understand.. why would Hmong people want to come here? To such a cold and foreign land? Isn't your part of the world very productive (biologically) and with a full and deep culture and history etc...?

What about your HOME?

I would NEVER in my LIFE leave my home.. Minnesota.. and move to Cambodia or Vietnam (or any other place that is SO different than my home!)...

I just could NOT imagine that.. moving to a place where I would have NO family ties, NO history, NO common language, and NO knowledge to the local wildlife.. the terrain, geology.. the fish, the climate, or the local culture etc... it's just beyond me!... I just have never understood this.

Please educate me... and many of us I would guess... since I haven't a clue why you would want to leave your home to move here.

Just curious.. I have no problems with US immigrants since my own family came from Norway and Sweden a hundred years ago or so.. (and yes... I do NOT understand that either... I went to school one year in Sweden and I cant believe my ancestors left.. I loved it there and miss it to this day 20 years later!)


The answer to your question lies in all the history books you have read in school. Here is a couple:

1) the American dream

2) Stay and die (Genocide, which Andy already mentioned) or leave the country and live.

Ask any Hmong and I can almost guarantee you, 99.9% will say the reason why they fled to the US is because of reason #2. Simply put, life or death.

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I belive the reason many people from Southeast Asia, Somalia, etc came to Minnesota is because local relief groups, religious organizations and similar sponsors helped them leave refugee camps and come to start a better life. I've thought the same as Slyster. Why would you come to a place as cold as Minnesota when you're from a warm climate? Any place has got to better than a war torn country or refugee camp, even somewhere that gets to below zero in the winter.

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All I am saying is that if I were to move to Southeast Asia for a free, and better life, I would learn the culture and the lanquage! The reason the USA is the greatest country to live in is because our anscestors worked together to make it great. It can't be the best it can be unless we can talk to our neighbors down the street and understand what they are saying. So, yes, the language barrier does hold back a great potential.

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Hmong people dont have much of a written language, much less a history. I believe documentation of the culture didnt start until the 70s.

I have a couple of views. Most hmong fisherman break the law because of the languge barrier. They cant read the regulations and dont understand them. Its usually by word of mouth from other anglers that they know they have to buy a license before they can start fishing. THATS IT. Theyre not told of the open season of species, limits, etc. All they know is license = fish.

The other half of the anglers simply dont give a rats behind. They could care less about regulations. All they know is theyre catching them good, some for dinner, and the rest for the freezer. The DNR does have Asian DNR officers. They give seminars and educate the community when they see them. Again, some anglers could care less. Waste of time for them. Its very sad, but its very true.

to answer some of Slyster's questions. First, you have to understand that Hmong people do not have a native country they can call their own. Hmong people are nomadic farmers and hunters who live in small villages in the mountains. Huts made out of wood and debris with small sections sanctioned off for cooking and sleeping purposes. No running water and no electricity. They farm and hunt as needed for food. As time went on, they could sell and barter for other necessities they needed, be it clothes, guns, etc.

Education was not part of their daily lives. Whatever the Hmong people learned was passed down to them by generations of ancestors. No books, no teachers, no formal written language so no reading and writing. This was back in the day of course. Now, hmong children are in schools with supplies and all the good stuff.

Another very big misconception about the Hmong people is that society still sees them fighting against the US when the Vietnam war came around. Most people dont know that it was the United States CIA who hired the hmong people as guerilla forces to fight for them in the jungles of Laos against the VC. Most of the soldies were kids, teenagers. My dad was barely in his teens when he fought, 15 I think. Since they were fighting alongside the US, they were enemies to the VC. When war ripped through the lands, Hmong people had nowhere to go. small villages couldnt stand up for themselves. So they fled. Ive heard very disturbing stories about how the Hmong people were treated. there should be articles on the internet.

Point is, Hmong people come to this country to start a new life, mainly for their children. They dont want their children to grow up like they did. They want their children to go to school, get an education, so they wouldnt have to endure the hardships their parents went through. Its not as easy as that though. Moving to a foreign country with no education and no understandings of laws can be very scary. Most immigrants now have only seen running water for the first time in their lives. Give them credit, they are trying as hard as they can to adapt to a new world, but there are others that simply wont even attempt to.

Hmong people, like everybody else, do have problems also. What gets on my nerves a lot, and you see it happen occasionally, is that a majority of the Hmong people do not understand that they are guests in this country. they are given the chance to start a new life here but they dont respect that. They think the government owes them something for the war, which I agree with, to a point. But you cant just go breaking laws left and right because you feel cheated and overlooked. This irritates me the most about the Hmong community. Youre guests in this great country. Times have changed, people have changed. You have priviledges now that youve never had before. Feel blessed, feel lucky. BUT, respect it and ADAPT.

Im 100% hmong. Please dont misinterpret me as a hmong hater, that I hate my own people. I dont. Im proud to be hmong of course, but Im also proud to be an american citizen. Montana baby!!!! born and raised. People should not assume before they know the whole story. That gets people in trouble.

On a side note, please dont drink and drive, and say hello to a complete stranger sometime. Youll be surprised at how good you feel.

Thanks for the link fisherman-andy. Thats a good read.

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I wonder if you have any idea just how difficult it is to learn a new language. I have studied second language acquisition and have a minor in Spanish, I have studied it for 10 years. While I can hold a conversation with a native speaker, I am light years away from fluent, in reality, I am probably at the level of a 1st grader. That's after ten years of study! How do you expect someone who comes here as an adult, has to support a family by having a job (which can't be pay too well because of the language barrier) to be able to put the time in to learning a new language? It's simply not possible. I assure you sir, that if you went over to Vietnam that even after years spent there you would be no more bilingual than many of the Hmong immigrants you criticize for not learning our language. It's just simply not feasible. The hope is in the younger generations, those who are growing up bilingual because they are immersed in both our culture and the culture of their parents, kids who can speak Hmong and English fluently. Did you know that if a child hasn't been immersed in a language and taught it by age 12 they will never, and I repeat never, be able to speak it at the level of a native speaker? It's easy to say, "learn our language and culture." It's infinitely harder to actually do so. I don't see you volunteering at a community center on Wednesday nights teaching English to willing immigrants in classes...

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I wonder if you have any idea just how difficult it is to learn a new language. I have studied second language acquisition and have a minor in Spanish, I have studied it for 10 years. While I can hold a conversation with a native speaker, I am light years away from fluent, in reality, I am probably at the level of a 1st grader. That's after ten years of study! How do you expect someone who comes here as an adult, has to support a family by having a job (which can't be pay too well because of the language barrier) to be able to put the time in to learning a new language? It's simply not possible. I assure you sir, that if you went over to Vietnam that even after years spent there you would be no more bilingual than many of the Hmong immigrants you criticize for not learning our language. It's just simply not feasible. The hope is in the younger generations, those who are growing up bilingual because they are immersed in both our culture and the culture of their parents, kids who can speak Hmong and English fluently. Did you know that if a child hasn't been immersed in a language and taught it by age 12 they will never, and I repeat never, be able to speak it at the level of a native speaker? It's easy to say, "learn our language and culture." It's infinitely harder to actually do so. I don't see you volunteering at a community center on Wednesday nights teaching English to willing immigrants in classes...


Thank you for posting this, I was just about to do it myself. It really irritates me when people say "Just go learn English". It just shows how ignorant those people are of what it takes to learn a language.

If anyone here thinks that learning English isn't a big deal I challenge you to go learn a second language. Make sure you pick something that doesn't relate to english at all, something like Chinese or Japanese. And just to make it harder do it while not being able to read any written language, becuase thats what alot of older Hmong people are facing.

Go and try this for one month and see how it goes. Once you do that then come back here and talk about how easy it should be for all Hmong to go learn English.

Until you do that I am just going to ignore your ignorance.

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I belive the reason many people from Southeast Asia, Somalia, etc came to Minnesota is because local relief groups, religious organizations and similar sponsors helped them leave refugee camps and come to start a better life. I've thought the same as Slyster. Why would you come to a place as cold as Minnesota when you're from a warm climate? Any place has got to better than a war torn country or refugee camp, even somewhere that gets to below zero in the winter.


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All I am saying is that if I were to move to Southeast Asia for a free, and better life, I would learn the culture and the lanquage! The reason the USA is the greatest country to live in is because our anscestors worked together to make it great. It can't be the best it can be unless we can talk to our neighbors down the street and understand what they are saying. So, yes, the language barrier does hold back a great potential.


Blackbay - Many Hmongs did not want to leave their homeland. Even today those that still immigrant here didn't want to leave. But it's the venture for a better life that really draws them. Minnesota is beautiful place to live. Why would you want to stay in a place where constant waring is going on and your being marked for Genocide. There are many many good reasons.

Vister - What I have been telling you all along is the Hmong do learn and is fully capable. Those who don't assimiliate well are much older elders in the community. It be hard for anyone at old age. Understand that most Hmong families are still 1st gen. The 2nd gen families will have no problems grasping any concept. The Hmong are assimiliating into society much faster than your ancestors due to modernization.

I really don't think language barrier holds any country back from being great. What makes a country great is their unity & loyalty to stand up for humane rights. Not because they can't write or speak a certain language. This country's diversity of ethnic allow us to see and understand first hand what it takes.

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Very informative...un bias....and true comments. We all have much to learn from one another. We will continue to educate our elders, stubborn, and ignorant ones.....but if you do see something that isn't right. Do your part to help....not the DNR's part...or the police's part. There is no need to be confrontational. Everyone will get what they deserve. Remember....we're out fishing for a reason......whatever it may be...they were out doing the same. Enjoy guys! I hope to meet some of you guys one day. There are some pretty cool cats here. grin.gif

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turn_in_poachers: I could not have said it better myself.

One important thing to remmeber:

Because the Hmong language was always a verbal language that did not get put on paper until very recently (1960's/1970's)...grammatically...the language is very clumsy on paper. What I mean by that it, it is very hard to understand as a written language. Even I, who grew up in the U.S. and fluently can read and write English and Hmong, hate reading Hmong because it is not very easy to understand.

One big issue is that the Hmong Vocabulary is so simple and the vocabulary is so small that a lot of the technical words in the English language cannot be translated correctly and does not make sense.

__________________________________________________________

I know there are many reasons why people choose to do what they do.

But to me all the reasons and excuses come down to one thing...IGNORANCE and GREED.

There is one thing my father taught me growing up...If you don't learn, adapt and change along with society then you will never succeed at life.

My dad started working pushing carts when we arrived in the U.S. in 1976. He worked his way up to be an Automotive Engineer making over $100,000 a year. He never once choose to live on welfare, he was even embarrased to know people who lived on welfare.

If you look at the world around you...those who adapt, learn, and change with society succeed at what they do...Those who are ignorant and arrogant and thinks that "the world owes them" are the ones that are always falling behind (It doesn't matter what race, color or creed you are).

I am proud to say that...I am Hmong and I'm in the United States. I know one thing...If I was still back in Mountains of Laos, I would be dead or wishing I was dead. I don't agree with "all" things that Hmong people do or say...I also don't think that Hmong people have been given their share shake in society either. Hmong people didn't choose to live in the Hills of S.E. Asia...For some unknown fate of chance the Hmong People ended up there because our ancestors ran from place to place all their lives, always trying to escape persecution. We also did not choose to come to the United States. Unfortunately or Forutunately, because the U.S. choose to recruit a Hmong Milita we could no longer exist in a Communist S.E. Asia. With the Pullout of Vietman, many Hmong were immigrated to Australia, France and the largest group to the U.S. For those of you who may not understand...Many of our Parents and Grandparents gave up their lives or their children's lives to find a better life with what little they had to escape the war torn country...so that those who were able to come could find a better life somewhere else. I was lucky, because my Father and My Uncle fought in the War, we got escorted out with the U.S. Military.

We all work hard everyday, collect our assets so that someday, we can pass all we have down to our children, so that they will have a better life then we do. The only exception is that we are not running away everyday from gunfire and bombs(Well in today's society I don't know if that can be said anymore...but at least it's safer).

My wife's mother was shot and killed trying to escape the communist regime. Her Mother was shot in the back from a distance, the bullet passed by her mom's shoulder blade, pierced a part of her heart and the bullet was lodged in my wife's left arm because she was being carried. My wife was drugged with Opium so that she would pass out, because she was a baby and she kept crying because she was hungry. She stayed with her dead mother for Three days until her Father was able to come back and find her. Many parents brought their older children who could walk or run with them...They had to drug, kill or leave behind those that were babies...because they "cried." It was a choice...to live you must be silent...you make a noise and you die.

So to anyone who says...Why are you here? Why don't you go back? That is why....There you die...Here you live. Plain and simple.

________________________________________________________

So...Can we really solve the poaching problem...Probably not.

But what I do know is...If I do my part and try to set an example and continue to be a positive influence on my children and continue to teach them to do what is right and hope that they will be an example for their friends. Then maybe one by one, little by little we can slowly change the world.

I'm sorry for my ongoing ranting but one thing that disturbes me is the fact that...

Hmong people want to make excuses for why they do what they do...and think that it is okay..."Only live for today and don't worry about the future".

Everyone else wants to "assume" that EVERY Hmong Person is a Poacher...Can't say the "Hmong" word w/o people jumping to tell stories of their dissatisfaction with Hmong People.

And the fight and anger continues but there is no resolution.

turn_in_poachers: I commend what you and your brother are trying to do...Although we are a few...hopefully we can be a positive influence for Future Generations.

Sorry for the long rant...but just my .02

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Yes, I do. I am younger and it was a requirement to take a semester of spanish in high school in order to go to college. Yes, it was very difficult. No, I am not fluent by any means, and to this day have forgotten most of it. But, I could one-upon-a-time speak it. As far as learning english goes, it is one of the hardest languages to learn. complexity like There, their, they're and where, wear, words like this that they have to learn the grammar in order to write down the correct form of a word. But speaking one would understand what they mean. But, I do not hear poorly spoken english hardly ever!! Either it is english, or another language. The fact that in high school i was required to take spanish, wasn't so i could move to mexico! It was to pretty much train our brain the ability to learn something. That is why first graders can learn a second language better than a college student. They are still learning the basics of english. So yes, the younger generation will be able to learn it better. As far as the older generation goes, i'd like to say hello while walking down the sidewalk and get a "hi" back, or say it is a nice day and get a yes in return. The fact they can understand some is better than not knowing any. as far as nofish' comment goes about my ignorance, thank you. I guess i am the one with a little backbone thinking america should be a english speaking country. I'm sure you own house to. I live in an apartment, and yes, there are a lot of non english speaking people around me. Try needing a little help with something. trying to ask someone for it, the blank stares you get, cause they don't know what you are saying. Very frustrating. So, for those of you who think I'm wrong in my thoughts, so be it. I know you can't just take a couple lessons and win a spelling bee, i'm not that ignorant. Not being fluent isn't the point i am making, it's knowing a few of the basics, which aren't that difficult, considering i did pass spanish in high school.

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Yes, I do. I am younger and it was a requirement to take a semester of spanish in high school in order to go to college. Yes, it was very difficult. No, I am not fluent by any means, and to this day have forgotten most of it. But, I could one-upon-a-time speak it. As far as learning english goes, it is one of the hardest languages to learn. complexity like There, their, they're and where, wear, words like this that they have to learn the grammar in order to write down the correct form of a word. But speaking one would understand what they mean. But, I do not hear poorly spoken english hardly ever!! Either it is english, or another language. The fact that in high school i was required to take spanish, wasn't so i could move to mexico! It was to pretty much train our brain the ability to learn something. That is why first graders can learn a second language better than a college student. They are still learning the basics of english. So yes, the younger generation will be able to learn it better. As far as the older generation goes, i'd like to say hello while walking down the sidewalk and get a "hi" back, or say it is a nice day and get a yes in return. The fact they can understand some is better than not knowing any. as far as nofish' comment goes about my ignorance, thank you. I guess i am the one with a little backbone thinking america should be a english speaking country. I'm sure you own house to. I live in an apartment, and yes, there are a lot of non english speaking people around me. Try needing a little help with something. trying to ask someone for it, the blank stares you get, cause they don't know what you are saying. Very frustrating. So, for those of you who think I'm wrong in my thoughts, so be it. I know you can't just take a couple lessons and win a spelling bee, i'm not that ignorant. Not being fluent isn't the point i am making, it's knowing a few of the basics, which aren't that difficult, considering i did pass spanish in high school.


Funny, you took ONE SEMESTER of Spanish in highschool only and you claim to know the basics well enough to carry a basic conversation on the street with hispanics? That is too funny... Ive taken Spanish myself, actually I can speak 3 languages fluently. But the point is, at the highschool level, you dont learn very much in ONE SEMESTER ONLY.. LOL. I too have taken Spanish in highschool. I took it for 4 years in highschool, which is equal to 8 total semesters, not just ONE. So of course, I SHOULD KNOW! ANyways, you shouldnt come in here bragging indirectly how learning an language isnt too difficult and how Hmong people should be able to carry basic conversations in public in English, when you havent really experienced the difficulty of learning a foreign language yet, but ONE SEMEMSter OF HIGHSCHOOL SPANISH LOL.. Spanish, some of it, are very similar to words of the English language... Anyways, i thought most 4 year colleges preferred for students to have completed more than ONE semester of a foreign language before entering college?

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Please forgive my ignorance.. but here is what I have always wondered and seriously do not understand.. why would Hmong people want to come here? To such a cold and foreign land? Isn't your part of the world very productive (biologically) and with a full and deep culture and history etc...?

What about your HOME?

I would NEVER in my LIFE leave my home.. Minnesota.. and move to Cambodia or Vietnam (or any other place that is SO different than my home!)...

I just could NOT imagine that.. moving to a place where I would have NO family ties, NO history, NO common language, and NO knowledge to the local wildlife.. the terrain, geology.. the fish, the climate, or the local culture etc... it's just beyond me!... I just have never understood this.

Please educate me... and many of us I would guess... since I haven't a clue why you would want to leave your home to move here.

Just curious.. I have no problems with US immigrants since my own family came from Norway and Sweden a hundred years ago or so.. (and yes... I do NOT understand that either... I went to school one year in Sweden and I cant believe my ancestors left.. I loved it there and miss it to this day 20 years later!)


Hmongs had to come to the U.S.. Hmong people agreed to help and helped the U.S. fight in the Vietnam War, and the U.S., in return, promised to bring the Hmong people to the U.S. if they were to lose the Vietnam War. As we all know, the U.S. lost the war, and so the Hmong people migrated here.

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All I am saying is that if I were to move to Southeast Asia for a free, and better life, I would learn the culture and the lanquage! The reason the USA is the greatest country to live in is because our anscestors worked together to make it great. It can't be the best it can be unless we can talk to our neighbors down the street and understand what they are saying. So, yes, the language barrier does hold back a great potential.


If language barrier matters so much to you, why dont you go learn the Hmong language so that you can communicate with the Hmong elders.... Since learning a foreign language comes to you so naturally because you completed ONE SEMESTER of HIGHSCHOOL SPANISH .. LOl.

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You must be an (Contact Us Please), the point was in a couple months i could speak a little spanish! Not that i was fluent in it at all. Before you come on here all up and down my back trying to make me look like an (Contact Us Please) on the forum, read my posts, maybe twice! You definetely didn't read the first few sentences of my post. Maybe you can speak 3 different languages fluently, but ya can't read one at all. I said I passed spanish, not became a translator after a semester. I should have clarified myself

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As we all know, the U.S. lost the war, and so the Hmong people migrated here.


I'm not so great at history.. but we lost the Vietnam war?

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I'm not so great at history.. but did the US lost the Vietnam war?


Technically it wasn't a war. It was a "CONFLICT".

And I guess it would depend on your definition of winning. We killed more of them then we lost, but we didn't achieve the major objectives we set out to achieve. So it just depends on the way you want to spin it.

Personally I count it as a loss, lots of young Americans killed and nothing gained or achieved from their deaths.

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Vister,

Your ability to pass one semester of High School spanish has absolutely zero correlation to the ability of the Hmong population learning english.

I'm happy you passed and can now say what your name is and count to 10 in spanish. But that won't help you if you need to read the fishing regulations in Spanish now will it.

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Hello All!

Just before I start writing, Just wanted to say that Thanks for keeping it CIVIL. Please remember that this is just a Discussion, and should not be taken by anyone as anything else. Thanks again.

Wow great posts! For the record Slyster, yes we LOST the Vietnam war.....that is the reason our people were persecuted for helping democracy. After the loss, the US pulled out and our people were persecuted because we helped the CIA during the war. We were granted asylum in the states because of our service to the US. I haven't met a hmong elder who doesnt dream about living in his home country again.

Anywho...Caught my biggest crappie this past saturday. It was a whopping 12" crappie. Pushing a pound i'd say. Got a nice pic of it. Caught on a teardrop jighead with a stinger grub, 1.5' under a bobber. How did everyone else do this weekend?

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Hello All!

Just before I start writing, Just wanted to say that Thanks for keeping it CIVIL. Please remember that this is just a Discussion, and should not be taken by anyone as anything else. Thanks again.

Wow great posts! For the record Slyster, yes we LOST the Vietnam war.....that is the reason our people were persecuted for helping democracy. After the loss, the US pulled out and our people were persecuted because we helped the CIA during the war. We were granted asylum in the states because of our service to the US. I haven't met a hmong elder who doesnt dream about living in his home country again.

Anywho...Caught my biggest crappie this past saturday. It was a whopping 12" crappie. Pushing a pound i'd say. Got a nice pic of it. Caught on a teardrop jighead with a stinger grub, 1.5' under a bobber. How did everyone else do this weekend?


I didnt catch anything because NOBODY CALLED ME.

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OK DUDE! i get it.....but let me stress a few points...and does everyone else agree:

1) You have a wife

2) You live farther north

3) it was a spur the moment kind of thing.

haha. see?

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Out of curiosity, any lake in specific. I myself traveled back home this weekend as the ice finally went out on most battle lake area lakes around thursday and friday nights, with help from a driving wind and thunderstorms. All we managed to catch were bass, however they were 19 and 20 inch bass, so decent fish. Not a single panny confused.gif For the record, no we didn't keep them, as they are out of season and a fish only worth keeping on the wall in my eyes!! Good luck fishing, weather looks great for being in a boat, or on shore.

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I actually live in Plymouth. No, I may not be able to read the regs if they were in posted in spanish, but could have if i continued to study the language. My ability to pass a semester does reflect the fact that Hmongs' can learn english. I was unwilling to learn spanish, but did to an extent. In high school, our spanish class had a tele-study, where half way through the semester, we were graded on carrying out a conversation and studying it through a live link with another spanish class out of the state, so yes, it was more than uno, dos, tres, but agreed on the fact spanish is rather easy to learn. But foreign languages are learnable, you just have to study it to know it. You can't pick it up just by listening to other people talk. I have meant no disrespect to those who don't understand the english language. The hmong immigrants have already overcome a big obstacle by coming here, as yes, i'm sure they do miss home. I don't think they should have to speak english in order to be here, but learning a little won't hurt a thing. It may even help out in the workforce, who knows.

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Hmong people dont have much of a written language, much less a history. I believe documentation of the culture didnt start until the 70s.

I have a couple of views. Most hmong fisherman break the law because of the languge barrier. They cant read the regulations and dont understand them. Its usually by word of mouth from other anglers that they know they have to buy a license before they can start fishing. THATS IT. Theyre not told of the open season of species, limits, etc. All they know is license = fish.

The other half of the anglers simply dont give a rats behind. They could care less about regulations. All they know is theyre catching them good, some for dinner, and the rest for the freezer. The DNR does have Asian DNR officers. They give seminars and educate the community when they see them. Again, some anglers could care less. Waste of time for them. Its very sad, but its very true.

to answer some of Slyster's questions. First, you have to understand that Hmong people do not have a native country they can call their own. Hmong people are nomadic farmers and hunters who live in small villages in the mountains. Huts made out of wood and debris with small sections sanctioned off for cooking and sleeping purposes. No running water and no electricity. They farm and hunt as needed for food. As time went on, they could sell and barter for other necessities they needed, be it clothes, guns, etc.

Education was not part of their daily lives. Whatever the Hmong people learned was passed down to them by generations of ancestors. No books, no teachers, no formal written language so no reading and writing. This was back in the day of course. Now, hmong children are in schools with supplies and all the good stuff.

Another very big misconception about the Hmong people is that society still sees them fighting
against
the US when the Vietnam war came around. Most people dont know that it was the United States CIA who hired the hmong people as guerilla forces to fight for them in the jungles of Laos against the VC. Most of the soldies were kids, teenagers. My dad was barely in his teens when he fought, 15 I think. Since they were fighting alongside the US, they were enemies to the VC. When war ripped through the lands, Hmong people had nowhere to go. small villages couldnt stand up for themselves. So they fled. Ive heard very disturbing stories about how the Hmong people were treated. there should be articles on the internet.

Point is, Hmong people come to this country to start a new life, mainly for their children. They dont want their children to grow up like they did. They want their children to go to school, get an education, so they wouldnt have to endure the hardships their parents went through. Its not as easy as that though. Moving to a foreign country with no education and no understandings of laws can be very scary. Most immigrants now have only seen running water for the first time in their lives. Give them credit, they are trying as hard as they can to adapt to a new world, but there are others that simply wont even attempt to.

Hmong people, like everybody else, do have problems also. What gets on my nerves a lot, and you see it happen occasionally, is that a majority of the Hmong people do not understand that they are
guests
in this country. they are given the chance to start a new life here but they dont respect that. They think the government owes them something for the war, which I agree with, to a point. But you cant just go breaking laws left and right because you feel cheated and overlooked. This irritates me the most about the Hmong community. Youre guests in this great country. Times have changed, people have changed. You have priviledges now that youve never had before. Feel blessed, feel lucky.
BUT, respect it and ADAPT.

Im 100% hmong. Please dont misinterpret me as a hmong hater, that I hate my own people. I dont. Im proud to be hmong of course, but Im also proud to be an american citizen. Montana baby!!!! born and raised. People should not assume before they know the whole story. That gets people in trouble.

On a side note, please dont drink and drive, and say hello to a complete stranger sometime. Youll be surprised at how good you feel.

Thanks for the link fisherman-andy. Thats a good read.


You make a lot of good points, I will speak for a few others and say that if the whole hmong community would take the steps that you took to learn and understand the laws (ALL ON YOUR OWN LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE HAS TO) we probably would not be having this discussion right now. My point is that we can not expect the dnr to teach the laws taht's not there responsabilty to it's your's there is no excuse for saying that I don't understand them because I can't read english you to need to take classes and learn them all on your own, hmong cannot expect the dnr or anybody to go to them and say here let me do all your reading and writing for you because you don't want to do it for yourself. If there is something that I don't understand I myself go ask someone to help me understand.

That's my 2 cents I could go on andon but I won't.

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