Guests - If You want access to member only forums on FM. You will gain access only when you Sign-in or Sign-Up on Fishing Minnesota.

It's easy - LOOK UPPER right menu.

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Powerstroke

Doesn't want to "fetch" outside

7 posts in this topic

SO I brought this up a couple months ago and the ideas were all the same. Take a month or so off and try again later. So I'm back and nothing has changed.

Here's the skinny. My 9mo old springer loves to play, fetch, retreive etc IN THE HOUSE. The second we go outside he wants nothing to do with the toys, the bumpers or the bird wings. Occasionally he will take the wing once, but then he gives up on it. He will usually chase it, maybe touch it with his nose but won't pick it up and of course never brings it back.

My thoughts are about getting a nice pheasant or duck trainer (foam) and maybe some scent and make it an outside only/training only item.

We work on obedience training regularly and he sits, stays and comes well, not great, but he does well. He is a machine in the field and loves to work. He never loses sight of me and almost naturally quarters in the field and works a zig-zag pattern on his own. I can't do any other hunt training with him though because he ignores the training bumpers.

One thing I recently came acrossed was I another dog from our same breeder was having the same difficulties. That owner was saying her pup (same age) loves to play indoors but not outside.

He is signed up for a 2week bird/gun intro training in May. The trainer doesn't seem too concerned as long as I don't create a negative atmosphere about training.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pick up a video on the conditioned retrieve, or force fetching as its known as. I have followed Jim Dobbs videos as guides with both of my labs and with a few others friends dogs as well. It will turn the fetch command into a command and not a choice. Follow the steps and dont push the dog ahead any faster just because of a good day or good session. All dogs take the hold command/ear pinch/toe hold/collar stimulus differently as well. My 3 year old black lab never needed anymore than the taught hold command with positive feedback only and I run upland bird competitions with both of them where they must retrieve to hand without taking more than 1 step. My 2 year old needed the whole process. Both dogs are solid and will retrieve and hold anything on command but I would say most dogs running the competitions have gone thru the whole process. You will be using all sorts of different objects for the training before you get to the bumpers/wings/birds. This will also help in the regular obedience as well. Also, it is not a very easy process to go thru with your first dog, so dont be afraid to get help from a professional.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would say powerstroke knows his stuff.

Taking a month or two off is the last thing that I would do.

I have found that sometimes labs are stubborn; enough to make you want to scream, but when my ivory, now 1 1/2, was playing those pigheaded games, I just made more of an effort to let her know who the alpha was.

She wanted to object but I held my ground.

When she did it right, I praised her like no other.

Pups are like kids, and definitely respond to a firm voice and lots of love.

But if all else fails, go to a professional.

However, sometimes you get a dog that just will never be.

Hope that's not the case.

Good Luck!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's my two cents. Your trainer isn't concerned because he knows that he can charge you to force fetch the dog and make it retrieve. I think that by the sounds of it, he is a perfect candidate for force fetch. Second, your dog is only doing it on his terms and not yours. Let this pattern continue and it will spill into other areas of his behavior. Third, don't take a month off with a 8 month old dog. That is a critical period and time off will only make you go backwards. Fourth, get his obedience to near perfect. Do not tolerate anything else. It sounds as though you could use some direction. I would either pay a pro or look for a some sort of Springer or even a retriever club in your area. If you are willing to throw birds, I am guessing that someone will help you. It sounds like the instinctual behaviors (quartering in the field) are fine, so you know you have something to work with. For ten to fifteen minutes a day, you can end up with a great dog. Be patient. Not all dogs are easily trainable. Some of them make you earn it, but still turn out good in the end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am assuming he is interested in retrieving, goes to it when you throw it but just won't pick up the bumper. I force train all my dogs (labs and spaniels) but a good way to start is to work on holding the bumper. Just start with a smaller bumper, insert it into his mouth and make him hold. If he drops it, pick it up and put it back in his mouth and say hold. Once he is holding it comfortably, you can then have him hold it while doing obedience work (i:e healing, come, etc). Even with that, I don't think he will make the transtition to picking up the bumper without force training. As suggested, if you can find a local club or others to train with, I would suggest doing so. There are alot of good dog people in most retriever and spaniel clubs and they could definitely help. Or consider working with a trainer for a short time. If you haven't force trained a dog, it would be good for you to find someone to help you or at a minimum do some reading on the subject. But it is one of those things that experience really helps. Its not that it is hard but it is understanding what is a normal response to the training, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been reading a lot about the Force trainings. I took the months off back in Dec and Jan. Then I started getting back into it once the adult teeth were in solidly. I do agree that my pup is a little tto adventerous and stubborn. There have been many things along the way where I have had to assert myself.

It sounds like I've got the textbook case for force fetching. This is my first pup so I will be paying someone to at least get me going in the right direction. I also found the MN hunting spaniels club and printed off a membership app from them and plan on sending that in. I'm hoping to learn some neat things and find some more support on the matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could it be they are to distracted outside as compared to inside? Or they are only associating fetch with being an inside trick. I would look more towards getting some pigeons before trying to get him/her interested in plastic fetching, get some fun in the game. Throw the pigeons with the dog on a check cord, coming back to you when called shold not be an option, but a way of life. Force fetching can be a real pain with a dog with little retrieve. Better make sure that the dog has a good idea of what is expected of them before you apply the "pressure". The idea of piching ears and sticking dummies in the mouth is not that simple.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0



  • Posts

    • Chill62
      Fished this weekend around Vergas for Tuilibees and ice conditions were loking good till sunday mid day.  The public access are getting chewed up quickly and PLEASE use caution going onto a lake if you are driving.  The next 24 hours will not be friendly for our accesses and sadly if someone is going to fall through it's going to be right out in front of one.  I fished Big Pine on Sunday and found a hole that had been created 4" and I could shove the handle of my ice scoop down 24" without a problem.  It wasn't there when I parked 3-4 hours earlier.  Fishing in the area was slow but fish were very curious and chasing lures.  Saw a bunch of guys our chasing crappies and with how quickly they were moving they weren't having much luck.  We found them on big pine and they were very lathargic.  Saw them on camera and they were barely moving around.  Thought with the water running down the holes they'd be feeding like crazy and that wasn't the case.  We caught a decent amount of tuilibees nothing like last weekend but a ton of SMALL ones.  Few a bunch back down the holes.  I'll be hitting it hard this up coming weekend but I'm using a four wheeler to drive around and I'm hoping Wednesday-Friday morning is going to freeze up hard enough to make it safe.  I have 20-25 guys coming up for a pro staff get together so need to find lakes to try out and explore.   Tight Lines and PLEASE STAY SAFE!
    • Chill62
      Fished Big Pine Sunday afternoon.  Drove out Saturday and checked ice conditions and they looked great so decided Sunday was go.  Got there and set up for crappies and instantly had a nice fish and it wrapped up in the transducer and I lost him.  That was my highlight.  We set the house up to block the wind since the girlfriend was with and trying to make it fun for her.  When we tore down wow did the lake look different!  We found a hole that we could shove the hole of the ice scoop down  24" and it didn't hit anything.  It wasn't there when we started fishing!  Water was murky as heck and lots of floaters in the water.  Fish were LATHARGIC! saw them on camera and they barely moved through the water swimming around.  Usually we have our camera 4-5 feet away from the jig with perfect clarity not the case this weekend 4' away and we never found our spoon!  Coming off the ice the access was getting chewed up but was still passable.  People need to slow down!  We got passed by a pickup doing 30-35 twice!  We were taking it around 10 mph and was causing waves in the water.  Wont be driving back out until there is a good freeze for a while!
    • AlwaysFishing23
      It's worth a try. I found all mine right next to my house like a foot or less I did find some that were 6-7 feet away. Good luck!
    • Hawg
      I'm going to look too. Yard is wet and there should be a few around. Be a good time to try the shock method.  
    • cookie129
        Casey , Dave, Andrew and Josh rolled in Thursday and wasted no time getting unloaded and heading out to look for the elusive yet still catchable upper red lake crappies. They would be hitting some areas that we have done well in the past and in turn may help me  get a starting point on my quest to find the mother load. I'm kinda old school and still go by land marks and depths more then gps spots. From there you have to look for other things as they never seem to stay in one spot as they are on a quest to fatten up for the spawn. Its all about survival for fish as its eat or be eaten and make more fish. Mother nature is a amazing thing. A couple things I have noticed over the years, when you catch little walleye 8 to 10 inches that has always been a good starting point. It may have something to do with the food chain I imagine. We also seem to tie in to big pike on crappie jigs? My brother from Chicago also arrived Thursday eve so I would be hosting him for a few days as he was in old Minnesota. It was great having him here. We were able to fish together Thursday eve and also sunday evening . I even caught a couple fish for a fish fry Saturday as my good friend Boar can attest to. Warren also got to land two nice pike both on the tried and true Genze worm. Not sure why they like that little snowman shaped lure but they sure do like them tipped with a minnow. He headed home yesterday with there 6 fish so that was nice. Jim and Jake rolled into florida  Friday . They also had some friends with a wheel house Eric, Jennifer and Rick so I had a spot all plowed for them. It started off very slow for them but Saturday night sunday morning did pick up and they managed to catch a few fish. Jennifer was on fire and even landed a goldeneye that Eric would be smoking. Lance had Monatna reserved for a couple friends and they also had two wheel houses with them. Grant, Mary, Donna and  Lee. They were old friends and customers of Spider Johnsons. Lance had a 21 foot ice castle that they had stained a dark chocolate color and I really liked how it turned out.  I also killed the exterior blue of lee's house, a midnight blue. I was so disappointed in the fishing in that spot and just do not understand how 20 fish can be caught 150 feet away and narly a bite where they were. Stupid fish.  Casey and his crew did find a couple elusive yet still catchable upper red lake crappies and got stuck on that area and never explored any other spots that I know of. They also managed to get plenty of walleyes in that area so were able to have a fish fry both Friday and Saturday night. The dnr were out and about both Friday and Saturday night. They come in like gang busters? I guess it makes sense to catch people cheating with unattended lines, or fishing with to many lines. I know if I see something my customers are doing wrong I do speak up. I just assume they have there licenses and always try and explain the eating fish on the lake rules. Sunday was a day to say goodbye and hustle to get Montana and florida moved and reset for Shell chick, Jeff, Marty and Shell.  My good friend boar was helping me out this weekend so we had them fishing in no time even after a 3 mile move. The hammer would be joining here sister shell chick to fish sunday eve while I would be spending time in old minesota with me brother. The hammer was up to her old tricks and landed a elusive yet still catchable upper red lake crappie. Shell chick got in to the action and also landed one, plus they also landed a few keeper walleyes. Mean while Marty and Shell less then 150 feet away could not buy a fish? Stupid fish. Mother nature turned her ugly side again sunday eve into all day yesterday except this time it was warm and rain. It was enough to spook Shell chick and Jeff to head home a day early while my good friend and ex helper Marty would stick it out there and keep a eye on the conditions and the houses. I scrambled with Jimbo"s help to get old Minnesota, north Dakota and North Carolina moved as water was starting to go down the holes making them bigger. I also had Dave and his crew coming for north Dakota. I was amazed when I went onto the lake as 99 percent of the snow was gone, yes gone, all turned to water in less then 12 hours. I'll know a lot more today as I came off the lake at 3. I did talk to Marty a couple time and every thing seems ok .Dave has not called so they also must be ok. I'll try and give a lake up date later today. I expect a lot of water has drained under the ice after seeing that water draining down the holes like a toilet being flushed. One year I came out the next day and all the water was gone in 12 hours?