Lead shot kills swans - it should be outlawed!!!

[BLACKJACK]

Last week both the Srib and Outdoor News had articles about lead shot killing swans by Annandale. It was confirmed that it was lead shot by toxicology tests and xrays. According to the DNR the swans were feeding in a popular duck hunting spot and even though lead shot was banned 20 years ago, they're still getting enough lead to kill them.

Swans are big birds and easy to see if they're sick or dead, just think of all the other smaller birds that pick up lead shot and go off and get sick and/or die. It also doesn't have to be a spot with a lot of pellets, all it takes to kill a small bird is couple of pellets. Lets stop spreading a poison and ban all lead shot!!!!

The reason I'm posting this is because there has been more than one debate on FM and you always hear the 'wheres the proof". Well the DNR has the dead swans to prove it!!

[Meat-Run]

BlackJack,

So let me get this straight besides lead shot for up land bird hunting you want to ban the lead that is in my 270 cartridge that I use for deer hunting??? Or the the .22 caliber and pellets that I use to teach my boy how to shoot safely and grow up enjoying the great sport of shooting????? Please explain yourself??

thanks,

mr

[B@ssDoctor]

Pretty soon, we will not be able to bring pencils in the boat.

Did they physically find lead pellets in the body? Or was it a jig head from a local lake? Or ??

[B@ssDoctor]

Besides, there is little we can do to prevent the happening of 20 years ago. Swans can dig a little deeper than other ducks and are probably still digging up the shots from 20 years ago. Excerpt from a Lead article:

The number of birds with lead in the gizzard varies among species and regions of the country, but there is a consistent pattern: diving ducks are more likely to swallow lead shot than dabbling ducks. Ducks that feed on plants and invertebrates in the water or on the surface are less likely to pick up lead shot that has settled into the bottom than ducks like pintails that may dig 4 or 5 inches into the bottom for tubers. Snow geese and swans can dig even deeper – as much as 12 to 15 inches.

[deerhuntr8]

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BlackJack,

So let me get this straight besides lead shot for up land bird hunting you want to ban the lead that is in my 270 cartridge that I use for deer hunting??? Or the the .22 caliber and pellets that I use to teach my boy how to shoot safely and grow up enjoying the great sport of shooting????? Please explain yourself??

thanks,

mr

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Beat me to it!

Why does everyone want to ban something? I am so sick of that word! At the rate of all this banning, all we will be able to do with people like you around is watch edited TV with a helmet on in case we fall off the couch. Lets ban everything, its for the children.

[fishermn]

Its ironic how hard we work to protect swans when you can hunt them (Tundra swans) in at least one of our neighboring states...

[B. Amish]

our neighboring states don't have the number of trumpeter swans that we do.

[VMS]

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Pretty soon, we will not be able to bring pencils in the boat.

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Don't think we need to worry about that... The lead in pencils is graphite...not metal. :-)

Steve

[dstrey]

My question is why not ban lead shot in shot gun shells. Just because it is banning another thing is not a good reason. It has been proved time and time again that lead kills anything that ingests it. With all the advancement in steel shells they are just as good or better than lead. If you cant kill it with steel then it is too far away to be shooting at with lead also. As for them digging up lead that was there for 20 years now. That is probably true but why should we be adding more lead to the environment. I dont understand why they didnt ban lead all together when they banned it on waterfowl. Pheasants and doves arent ammune to lead and it will kill them just as fast.

[LoneRanger]

So where does that leave us with fishing weights?

[BLACKJACK]

Meat run, I was thinking specifically about shotshells out of a shotgun.

[BLACKJACK]

bassdoctor, here is a quote from the Strib article

"Last week, the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources confirmed that the recent deaths of 15 trumpeter swans near Annandale was caused by lead poisoning from old shotgun pellets."

Wish I could post the link but if you want to read the complete article goto the Outdoor section of the Star Tribune website.

[Tenpoint]

I have the answer. Just shoot everything with an arrow. I can't remember the last lead broadhead I bought.

[BLACKJACK]

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Just because it is banning another thing is not a good reason. It has been proved time and time again that lead kills anything that ingests it.

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Bingo!!!

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Pheasants and doves arent ammune to lead and it will kill them just as fast.

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Double bingo!

Let me ask the lead advocates this, would you paint your kids bedroom with lead paint? It only killed a few kids, we're not really worried about the other kids that it made sick and possibly did some brain damage...

Lead paint was used in houses before we knew better, now no one would knowingly use lead paint. Same with lead shot, 40 years ago it was all we had, but now we know it kills birds, lets move on to other less toxic shells like steel. Unfortunatly, most people will not voluntarily stop using lead shot unless its banned, thats why a ban is necessary.

[Meat-Run]

Blackjack,

I apologize if I was a little sarcastic but I may have read to deep into your post and I'm sure you didn't mean rifle cartridges and .22 bullets. But the fact of the matter is that two birds are smeared all over the TV's because of lead poisening. Well we all need to think clearly on how we respond to this without a knee-jerk response and I'm not saying you are but the media is guilty of it.

Now you watch this hipe about the lead and you watch some radical in the senate propose a bill on ALL lead bullets and shot just like they tried to do on lead sinkers.

BlackJack this is an important topic and I'm glad you brought this to the forum for us sportsmen to discuss.

mr

[Black_Bay]

Not that it really makes a difference since the swans are dead, but I wonder if they picked up the lead before they even migrated back to Minnesota.

[Bassboy1645]

I can honestly say about the only time I use lead is for trap and skeet...Usually i use steel becasue its all i have. How many times have you needed shells and just dug through the door of your pickup or all five of your hunting coats to round up enough shells to hunt or shoot with?? I just love the laughs when the other guys see all the multi colored shells in a box. Just hafta watch for slugs!!! That being said lead and steel have varying velocities. by hunting with just steel, you can get use to a similar velocity all around. Becasue steel isn't as dense as lead you can use bigger shot for game then what you would normally use. BB-2 shot works great for bunny rabbits and pheasents and its deadly on grouse but one or 2 bbs in the breasts wrecks a lil bit of meat so u need to go for a head shot. The only thing that I like about lead is that the pattterns are much better and that it flies a little bit faster than steel from what I have seen. just my 2 cents

[sparcebag]

Maybe PETA could collect some money and sift all the lead out that was deposited since the 1800s.Or the complainers,Yah get away from lead now!But your great great grandads didn't know that! Its there, live with it! I most likly ate alot a lead growing up, shot from pheasents,ducks,geese, rabbit you know Who should I sue??

[tealitup]

I think it was channel 5 news who had a story last night about this. There was actually at least a dozen swans that were killed on one lake (Clearwater I think). They were still on the ice and in the water. The DNR said that it was directly associated to lead shot from 20-50 years ago.

[crappeyeslayer]

Lead is a metalic poison and a slow working one at that. How could it kill that many birds at the same time. Come on! I think that there is probably more to the story!

[GottaGo]

I find it hard to believe that lead that was sitting around for several decades was suddenly found by all those birds. Is it at all possible that somebody was duck hunting a spot now and used lead shot? Maybe went out a handful of times to the same spot and threw out a couple boxes of lead shot? I know it wouldn't be legal, but just because there is a law does not mean that everybody follows it.

[dstrey]

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Lead is a metalic poison and a slow working one at that. How could it kill that many birds at the same time. Come on! I think that there is probably more to the story!

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If they were wintering there they could have eaten lead pellets for several months. Lead killing these swans is not what my opinion on banning lead is based on. It just seems extremely unnecessary to be putting a toxon into the environment when there are non toxic choices.

[sparcebag]

The lead probably killed them if you know how a birds gizzard works,It most likly put a large amount of lead in their systems all at once.As far as the lead goes you said putting it in our environment is not right?? Where do you think it comes from??

[dstrey]

The environment. But not in ways that swans or any other birds can eat it.

[fisherking01]

The lead shot is now more readily available with the current low water. It is old build up, not new shot.

It's sad that this happened, but not the end of the world. Fact is if you live in MN you will see this from time to time. All of the metro lakes were hunted from settlement until the city engulfed them. I'd bet there is just as much lead in our environment from paint. All bridges were painted with heavy lead paint, remember growing up seeing the paint peeling off, or peeling it off? (all transit bridges including railroads). We do a great job cleaning up now, but in the past it was blasted, and went in the wind, water, storm drains... It's so widespread that clean up of all is not an option.

As for banning lead shot, I don't think it's necessary, but it will eventually happen, at least in areas.

[B@ssDoctor]

Do the birds that die from lead poisoning outnumber the birds we loose from wounding them with steel. This is a stat I have never seen. I personally would NOT like to admit it, but there have been many lost birds that I have shot with steel that have been raccoon bait. I am not proud of it, but I am fairly sure those birds that died of wounds didn't have lead in them.......????

[gorrilla]

fisherking101 hit the reason for the die off of swans on Clearwater right on the head. Were encountering low water near drought now and it could happen more noticeably to swans wintering in a formerly popular duck hunting spot injesting the shot while obtaining grit for their gizzards.

As far as steel shot being a crippler and therefore evil by nature, BS...

It been around long enough and seen so many improvements I say stick with high velocity, practice, and HAVE SOME RESTRAINT AND KNOW YOUR EFFECTIVE RANGES. The problem with continual cripples isn't the shot, its the shooter...

[SmilinBob]

Steel shot works just fine if you get out and practice with it. Why don't the manufactures take some ownership of the situation and just start phasing out lead production so the debate will die out and we can all just get back to hunting and sharing our outdoor heritage. We don't need more laws, we just need to apply a little common sense!

[tealitup]

I love non-toxic shells. A great variety there and all I shoot (except for trap). I buy one or two boxes a week during the off season -sales- but you really dont see anything smaller then #5 or# 6 shot.

Back to the swans... When the ice decreases the DNR are going to pick all these birds up and check them for lead.

[Bassboy1645]

I didnt see anybody mention gasoline......What about gas runoff via the sewers and rainwater?? Gas nowadays is unleaded but what about way back when?? Im sure theres more in the water then just lead too. What about nitrogen and phospohurs levels?? mercury?? My buddies and I talk water alot cuz thats their major and thyre constantly workign on the problem of runoff and pollution. Im sure the main thing is lead from over a period of time but whos to say something else over time hasnt killed them as well?? just a thought.