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primetime49

The Real Truth On Ethanol Pain in the GAS *DELETED*

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primetime49

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Hemlock

Interesting read Primetime....I own a gas station in Canada, and I'm lobbying for more ethanol. Good to have the facts about shelf life and the mixture of the new/old gas.

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JollyT

All motor manufacturers are going to have to go to recirculating sealed systems with alcohol resistant hoses and parts. The auto industry has done it. Everyoneesle will have to too.

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Scott K

Like it or not ethanol is here for awhile, atleast untill they can find a new replacement for fuel, it will be here and we will need to deal with it. It has its disadvantages, but most newer boat motors and vehicles, have adopted to it long ago. MN has been using ethanol in there regular unleaded fuel for a few years now, so if you have used any fuel in MN except premium fuel, you have used it. Yes it has shorter shelf life do to absorbing water, a lower boiling point, and harder starting in extreme cold, but if you havent noticed it yet, you most likely wont. MN is using a 10% blend in all gas except premium, which has or will be changed soon, and are talking about uping it to 20%, but I dont see that happening anytime soon. The upside is thats money that stays here in the midwest, instead of money going to foreign countries.

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Jeremy airjer W

Theres an awful lot of info provided but there are no sources listed. Where did you get your info?

Quite frankly I don't believe half of the hype that gets written/said about ethonal. Of course I also think its not the solution to our energy problems.

Theres no way my auger should start. I use 87 octane oxygenated fuel thats been siiting on the shelf for three years. There no way my snowblower or my lawn mower should start. Once again 87 octane oxygenated fuel no stabalizer and they fire right up. I also run the cheap stuff in my boat but I stabalize that in the winter and I fill the tanks completely full. If theres no room for air theres no room for condensation and theres no room for water!

We get cars all the time that have been sitting all summer or all winter with half full tanks of gas that fire right up and run fine.

All I'm sayin is I have yet to have a fuel problem that I can directly blame ethanol as the problem!

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Eric Wettschreck

I make ethanol for a living.

According to the many "Reports" I've read nothing should run or even start if it has alcohol.

Good think I don't believe everything I read. I'd be out of a job.

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BobT

Same thing here, airjer. I have an old plastic antifreeze container that I have rinsed out and use to store my mixed chainsaw gas. I don't remember when I mixed it last because I rarely use the saw anymore. Maybe once a year in the spring to do some minor trimming. I think I've been using the same gallon of gasoline for about 5 years and have never had a problem. I don't treat it with anything, my saw never has to have the carb cleaned, and it always starts. I just used it about 2 weeks ago for the first time since last June.

My lawn mowers don't get special treatment for wintering my fuel. Just park 'em and restart 'em in the spring. The B&S engines haven't failed me yet.

I think this is the first year I have ever used any gasoline stabilizer in any equipment and I used it in my boat only. Otherwise, in the past I didn't bother and I have never prestarted my outboard before taking the boat out for the first time in the spring. Hasn't failed me yet.

There are times when one wonders if there might be a bit of exaggeration and hype thrown into the mix. For example, when I first got my old M International it was suggested that I needed to use a lead substitute. One day I was reading the ingredients on the bottle and there was one ingredient listed. There were no blanket ingredients either such as "petroleum products" or "inert ingredients", just one ingredient...Kerosene. I was paying $3.50 a quart for kerosene when I could buy it for $1.50 per gallon at the pump!!! Ever since then I just mix 1 to 2 oz. of diesel fuel per five gallons of gasoline and in 15 years haven't had any problems. The tractor got used plenty too because it was may only power plant for the first 10 years. I do notice that the needle valve in the carb will get sticky if I don't use the diesel fuel.

Bob

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Scott K

airjer,

I see you are a mechanic, I am a mechanic also! And as you stated I have never seen a problem that I could point my finger and blame ethanol for it. Although I have seen e-85 cause a few check engine lights and hard starting on non e-85 vehicles. But I dont think besides that it would do any damage to the vehicles, (on fuel injected systems) I have used e-85 in my non flex fuel car, all I noticed a little extra crank time, less economy per gallon, a little less power under heavy load! But I wouldnt use e-85 in my boat, or ice auger, or lawn mower!

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Jeremy airjer W

Quote:

airjer,

Although I have seen e-85 cause a few check engine lights and hard starting on non e-85 vehicles. I wouldnt use e-85 in my boat, or ice auger, or lawn mower!


Agreed!!

(I prefer technician! grin.gif lol )

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Capt. Don*

While I use regular 87 oct. in my small engines (lwanmowers, auger, generators etc) I use 92 oct non oxy in my boat. I have run 87 w/no problems, but the marina has one pump, 92 non-oxy. I have 2+ year old 87 in some of my lesser used small engines and have had no issue. My rule of thumb is to smell the fuel, if it smells like gas, I run it. There have been some documented issues with 10% ethanol on some boats with fibergalss tanks, these were common in the 70's and were considered superior to metal tanks and used by builders like Bertram, Hatteras and the like. The alchohol reacted with the chemistry in the gel-coat and degraded it and got into the substrate creating a gooey substance that got into the engine before it plugged everything tight. Bear in mind the few I have known were designed and built while gas still had lead in it. Most modern equipment is more than capable of 10% ethanol. I have been a mechanic before the label technician was created so owners could justify raising labor rates due to our new found expertise. I started a mechanic and will hopefully finish a mechanic, heck, I've seen carpet cleaning companies refer to their employees as technicians. Way too broad a label for me.

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delcecchi

My understanding is that back in the day there were some materials used in hoses and gaskets that weren't ethanol compatible. But that got fixed long ago.

And don't feel bad, they call boiler operators and garbage haulers and train drivers "engineers".

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Surface Tension

I think that article came from a state that hadn't changed to ethanol blend yet or did so recently.

Any engine will burn old gas, I can put diesel fuel in a gas engine and it will run too. However it won't run properly but most importantly it won't burn clean. In turn thats more carbon deposits building up.

Here is what the concern was when the switch was made here in MN. Oxygenated has a shorter self life and it burns a little hotter. Thats not a problem if your carb is clean. Combine that with a dirty carb and now its a factor. I've seen scoured cylinders and burnt pistons before and after the switch from dirty carbs. Is there an increased amount of that, just the fact that the oxy/fuel breaks down sooner would led me to say yes.

Old gas can be burnt as we already know that. Its what that gas is doing to the carb when in storage thats the problem. You get either gum or the green stuff. Both will plug jets. For that reason I use a fuel stablizer.

About the moister. Its common scene that vented fuel tanks are at higher risk of condensation. After all if the tank is sealed then the only moister that can get in to the tank is what was there before the gas cap was on. What the article suggests and what I suspected is, not only will you get moister from condensation but the oxy/gas itself absorbs water from the atmosphere. That water has impurities. Brass will oxidize from atmospheric impurities. Guess whats in your carb, brass jets, floats and seats.

So in the end both non/oxy and oxy/gas can go bad and gum a carb. I decided long ago that if I'm storing gas it'll be non/oxy with a stabilizer, and in a full tank.

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Eric Wettschreck

Quote:

they call boiler operators and garbage haulers and train drivers "engineers".


And we all need a license to boot!!!! grin.gif

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anyfishwilldo

Quote:

And don't feel bad, they call boiler operators and garbage haulers and train drivers "engineers".


People like us have been called engineers longer than the guys with the fancy pieces of paper that call themselves "engineers".

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Valv

I've been called other names, I don't think I can post it here....heck I though one was my real name when I was very young grin.gif

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tonka

Not a big fan of ethanol and the way I see it is that government wins both ways. They look good backing it cause its environmentally friendlier then gas. Ethanol does not burn the btu's that gas does giving you less mileage meaning you will buy more gallons. The government taxes you per gallon so they make more money too.

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