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Borch

WOW that hurts!!!!

15 posts in this topic

Here are some of the numbers that you'll experience in a shotgun and a list of large calaber rifle info for a gun of the stated weight measured in ft/lbs.

.30-06 165gr. bullet @ 2900fps 8# rifle = 20 fp recoil energy

.338 Win Mag. 250 gr. @ 2700fps 8.5# rifle = 34 fp

.375 H&H 300 gr. @ 2550fps 9# rifle = 42.3 fp

.458 Win. 465gr. @ 2220fps 10# rifle = 57 fp

12 ga. 2 3/4 1oz. @ 1125 7.5# shotgun = 16 fp

12 ga. 2 3/4 1 1.4oz. @ 1360fps 7.5# shotgun = 36.4 fp

12 ga. 3" 1 5/8oz. @ 1280 7.5# shotgun = 52 fp

12 ga. 3.5" 1 7/8oz. @ 1280 7.5# shotgun = 60 fp

Ouch!!!

No wonder my shoulder gets sore while patterning all these loads. I'm working on an article regarding patterning strategies that should be available soon. Some of the tips should help with the "significant" felt recoil.

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Ha!

I've seen those same numbers. The rifle guys always complain about their recoil being "sharper." I know what they mean, but felt recoil is still felt recoil. I can tell you there's nothing "dull" about my 3.5" gun!

Joel

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Thats interesting. I've never been bothered by shooting 3.5's in my 12 ga. But a few rounds out of my buddy's .458 win mag was about all I could handle. It really must be a different kind of recoil, either that or those rifle numbers are way under what they should be.

Ryan

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If your shooting at game - you feel nothing

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I am not a physicist but I wonder what variables go into calculating lb-ft. Is time a factor? If not, I wonder if the energy expended by a shotgun shell is delivered over a longer time frame than a rifle cartridge due to the fact that the load is not a solid mass. At the same time, maybe to our shoulder the load may have the same relative impact whether solid lead or a mass of pellets.

Bob

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I am going to question those numbers based upon experience. I have shot plenty of 3.5's and yes, they do kick pretty good, but they don't have the recoil that my slug gun does with 2 3/4 inch 2000 FPS sabot slugs. My slug gun kicks about the same as a .338 Win Mag. I really question some of these numbers.

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The numbers are right. It may not be what you perceive though.

A lot of perceived recoil has to do with the configuration of the gun (action type, stock dimensions, barrel length, where the weight is concentrated in the gun, etc...). A gun with a short stock with a bit of drop and a short barrel (Remington 870 with 20" slug bbl) will feel like it kicks harder. You'll get more muzzle jump and face slap with that gun than a muzzle heavy gun with a long barrel and a long stock with less drop.

Also 2000 fps is roughly 700fps faster than those other loads listed. That also makes a difference.

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gspman made a great point about gun styles.

To compare apples to apples you'd need guns with equal size and mass as well as both guns would need to be break open single shots.

Most 3.5" guns have ways of disapating (sp?) the gasses to reduce recoil. Gas operated actions etc will reduce the recoil because not all of the force was directed at the shooter.

Try shooting a single shot 12ga sometime. Its brutal.

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Quote:

If your shooting at game - you feel nothing


That is so true. It is amazing how much you can hurt after sighting in a gun, then when you go out in the field you are so focused and don't feel a thing.

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I used to have a Rem 870 3.5" which I believe would be right around the 7.5lb range as in Borch's info. Kick like a mule! One summer we shot up an old car for kicks and with just a T-shirt on I rapped off 3 rounds and could not bring myself to pull on the fourth. Ever get your check bone a bit too tight on the stock with one of those? blush.gif I zapped a tom one time with my shoulder sandwiched between a smallish birch tree and the ol mag - not fun, if I'd a missed it woulda hurt more! One thing I've noticed though is rifle recoil is so much more 'compacted', its quicker, sharper if you will than a shotgun which feels more like a heavy push - tough to describe but I'm sure you know what I mean.

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The position you shoot in also has some effect. Sit on you rump while you shoot and it doesn't hurt as bad as when you sit at a bench and lean into it.

Those scopes and red dots on the turkey guns can sure leave a mark too. crazy.gif

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I talked about this with our company physics guru and here's part of his take. First, he said this issue is always under attack and analysis so even what he says is probably challenged elsewhere.

To shorten our 45 minute conversation to just a few words:

When a rifle is fired, there is a factor that comes into play that has affect. The air in the barrel being pushed by the bullet at super-sonic speed is resisting and therfore exerting a force backward against the rifle. Ever notice how a sniper rifle has a sheet metal shield-like device on the end of the barrel. Part of the function of this is to capture the air pressure as it leaves the muzzle and when it does the air is pushing the gun forward. This counteracts the effect of recoil. Without it, what are the odds that an individual could fire a .50 cal. round with any repeated accuracy?

When a shotgun is fired, the velocity of the load is much lower and so the air pressure considerably less therefore, you may not feel as much recoil.

He also said that the amount of time of the recoild is less with a shotgun than with a rifle due to barrel length and other factors.

He went into more details than I could begin to remember so I realize my explanation is quite vague and open to much interpretation. I know that I understood what he was talking about when he was done though.

Bob

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This makes sense to me. Back to the original post - while these numbers may be accurate (as others have validated), the felt recoil is vastly different. Felt recoil is what matters to the user, not the numbers.

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There was another factor that he mentioned that seems somewhat plausible.

Next time you are in a gun shop, pick up a new rifle with iron sights and throw it up. Does your eye line up with the sights or do you find yourself having to lower your head to see them. Likely the latter. He said this was because so many rifles are fitted for scopes the stock is designed to line you up with a scope and not the iron sights. Shotguns are not usually fitted with scopes so the stocks are cut to give you better alighnment.

He said that because of the flatter rifle stock your shoulder is more directly in line with the barrel and consequently you may feel more of the impact from the recoil.

Bob

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Gun fit has always had a major infleunce or felt recoil whether you're talking shotguns or rifles. If it fits you well it doesn't beat you up as badly. wink.gif

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