no new CRP

[hookset]

I was told by my county that there will not be a new sign-up for CRP for the next two years. With the price of corn going up and a many CRP contracts expiring in the next two years, I am afraid we will be talking about the "good ole days of pheasant and deer hunting" soon. We are talking looseing hundreds of thousands of acres of habitat.

Had to get that off my chest.

joe

[jlm]

I agree! The CRP has turned some parts of MN into awesome wildlife habitat! I sure hope CRP sticks around or we will all see a major decline in not just pheasants and deer, but all wildlife in general! Please contact your state reps. in your area if you believe in the CRP programs!

[lawdog]

Yes the demise of CRP is horrible for wildlife, but don't forget when you talk to the congressional folk to also mention its environmental benefits. This is marginal ground that's put into CRP and it is highly subject to run off issues and soil erosion when farmed. The is bad for water quality and everything else. CRP as a wildlife program alone probably doesn't have the support to remain viable, but as a wildlife, habitat and environmental program, it stands a much better chance.

[gorrilla]

Yeah, if we loose CRP and restrict great raccoon traps in the same year, we have to teach the kids about how the dodo, the passenger pigeon, and the pheasant USED TO BE cool looking birds.

[Cooter]

Corn, corn, corn,...last report I heard they are predicting around and probably just over 100 million acres this year. Prices supposed to be over $3.30/bushel for the next 10 years, probably be closer to $3.80/bushel this fall/winter. Its tough for landowners to pass it up, correct me if wrong, but I also heard net income of around $300/acre of corn - tough to get CRP legislation to match that. In my neck of the woods, I think its great - should improve the deer hunting in my particular area. I understand the concerns of you guys further west.

Anyone hear of CR-33? Think thats what its called. Kind of a program aimed at bobwhite efforts, would also help pheasants. Just had a local program on about that last night. Sounds like a good compromise program but not a lot of acreage ok'd for it in WI and MN. Corn, corn, corn.

Very cornfusing and cornplicated with many corncerns.

[gorrilla]

If corn prices are rising then so should CRP to match it. If they have to reduce the total acerage to compensate the change, some is better than NONE......

What a joke, the AGRI-BUSINESS lobby-ists have wayyyy too much clout and money and us measly sportsmen haven't found a better way to organize and express our opinion. Do you actually think the seed companies, chemical companies, equipment companies, storage and processing companies, transport companies, refineries, are going to let this golden baby slip by them in favor of the environment???

Its not so much the farmers fault, its agribusiness IMO...

The government (we the people) need to accelerate our thinking and realize our necessary increase in taxbased CRP payments is needed to compensate for the increase in corn market. PERIOD. If they let this go permanently by the wayside we'll all fall decades in reverse environmentally. The problem is I'm all for solving Global Warming, but everybody's heard of Al Gore's movie and how big business is polluting the air, but why don't we realize that CRP is a great way to "tie" up that carbon again? It reduces erosion substantially, just look at the recent progress in MN's SW rivers. Not to mention many of our wildlife species are so dependent on the CRP program as well...

The dumb thing non sportsmen don't realize is that this affects them as much as us. I grew up in the "black desert" and lived with SNIRT every winter. The creek in our back yard was muddier than coffee. So I know how hard intensive agriculture with no environmental programs can be on the landscape. My best year hunting ducks as a kid was when I was 14 and the neighbors tile was broken one fall and I had a 2 acre slough in a cornfield. Other than that, the nearest duck slough was over 6 miles away.

When I read this year about the CRP changes, I was at my In-Law in Coon Rapids, they asked me what I was so upset about and when I explained to them what was going on, they didn't even know what CRP was and gave me this blank uninterested look and immediately returned to their previous conversation. Now they are not dumb people, its just dumb that our media and educators don't stress the importance of this issue. It makes my blood pressure skyrocket...

[Eric Wettschreck]

Take a procardia and get your blood pressure under control. If you don't have your health more CRP really doesn't matter.

Corn prices have little to nothing to do with "No new CRP" programs. It's the ethanol boom and the need for corn to fuel it. The ethanol boom and the need for corn to fuel it has also been a major player in the raising corn prices. This too shall pass.

No new CRP is bad for wildlife, yep. This too will soon pass.

[doser]

Gorilla,

You hit the nail on the head..............

[Cooter]

Does anyone know the tax cut per acre for CRP enrolled land, say for a 10 year period?

Back to corn prices, the ag dept predicts prices of at least $3.30/bushel for the next 10 years. Thats not gonna help.

The before mentioned CR-33(?_) - from what I gathered last night - may be a 'compromise' program where a certain percentage of tilled acreage would be left CRP/or planted native/favorable plants for pheasant/quail. For example contoured corn strips would have CRP type habitat strips alternating. I'm gonna do a little research for some better info, I was half asleep last night when I gathered this info! Later.

[WaveWacker]

It was stated earlier to contact your state reps. Your federal reps. are the people to contact as CRP is a federal program.

Straight corn prices aren't really all that responsible with there not being a general CRP sign-up. The federal gov. is trying to save pennies any place it can and that is why there is no new sign-up. What corn prices are doing is persuading some individuals to not re-enroll their existing CRP grounds (which there is funding for certain contract expiration years).

There are also many different practices under a Continuous sign-up CRP (CCRP). Eligible land owners can sign up for these programs at any time. The increase corn prices affect (or have the potential to reduce) the amount of acreage enrolled into these programs as producers may try to continue to get a crop off of some marginal land instead of enrolling it into a program.

[Dotch]

Some of the latest info on CRP. Just my personal opinion and that of several of the marketing meetings and advisory services, the price of corn will likely stay relatively stable for 2 - 3 years. After that, it's anybody's guess and will depend on any of numerous factors. We all heard the "new plateau" BS back in the mid-90's when corn hit $5. Wasn't long and we were talking LDP's and safety nets. Found the link to USDA's website informational. Moderators, if it's out of line feel free to whack my patties with the ruler!

From Corn eDigest:

USDA Announces Intentions To Re-enroll And Extend CRP Contracts

Agriculture Secretary Mike Johanns announced last week new results of the recent opportunity given to Conservation Reserve Program (CRP) participants to re-enroll or extend their contracts, which are set to expire between 2007 and 2010. An estimated 4.1 million acres in CRP contracts will exit CRP between 2007 and 2010. Of the 4.1 million acres, approximately 1.4 million acres are located in major corn producing states.

"The percentage of landowners choosing to remain in CRP is consistent with what we have seen in the past, despite speculation that re-enrollment would drop significantly due to high corn prices," said Johanns. "We are closely monitoring interest in CRP re-enrollment, planting projections and demand for commodities to determine the most appropriate future actions in administering the Conservation Reserve Program," Johanns said.

An estimated 23.9 million acres out of 28 million acres of eligible CRP contracts are expected to be re-enrolled. To read more about CRP contract enrollment, click on the following USDA Web link: www.fsa.usda.gov/FSA/webapp?area=home&subject=copr&topic=crp.

Source: USDA

[gorrilla]

boilerguy, I'll take a deep breath before I type this...

First of all your post makes no sense.?.?

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Corn prices have little to nothing to do with "No new CRP" programs. It's the ethanol boom and the need for corn to fuel it. The ethanol boom and the need for corn to fuel it has also been a major player in the raising corn prices. This too shall pass.

No new CRP is bad for wildlife, yep. This too will soon pass.

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How do you figure corn prices aren't related to increases in ethanol???? They are one and the same lately. And to say this too shall pass?????? Thats just lazy and dumb.

Do you think as years go by and more countries (and the US) build more ethanol plants and the demand increases, we are going to save any marginal farmland??? The payment for CRP type programs NEED to increase. Farmers are supposed to make $ off their land. If the programs are nothing even close to breaking even, how do you expect them to work.

If we let decades of progress environmentally go away with CRP, then what? Cross your fingers and hope the wildlife fairy will come fix it? Or the River Pollution Gnome? Or the air quality Pixey? Not to hack on you too much, but I think making a stink and being the squeaky wheel is the only hope we have. I don't see how putting our heads in the sand and "waiting it out" will help a thing...

[B. Amish]

switchgrass ethanol may be the answer to a lot of ethanol/corn/crp/wildlife/ducknesting cover/water quality/global warming related problems

imagine a crp type payment on marginal land thats planted into perennial grasses (switchgrass) that are allowed to be harvested once a year for the production of ethanol. pretty cool if you ask me.

google cellulosic ethanol to find out more........

[CAJ]

I have a small farm, and it is getting harder to leave in CRP. Taxes have been going up fast and the CRP payments per acre are going down. Then there is the big farmer that wants to cash rent all he can get his hands on. I think in the next 10 years there will be a lot less acres put back in CRP CAJ

[Pistol Pete]

Does anyone know the tax cut per acre for CRP enrolled land, say for a 10 year period? Cooter who told you this??

Tax cut?, Tax cut????,what are you talking about????? I farm and have CRP and certainly don't get a tax cut on any CRP I have. Do you all realize that a lot of CRP programs were and are schedled to be cut even before the price of corn went up. In my neck of the woods cash rent is around 100-140 per acre. CRP payments are around 78-87 per acre for that same land. My CRP is staying in CRP. I'm thinking on more but its a tough decision to make. I may wait a couple years and see if CRP payments go up a little to ease the pain.

[Eric Wettschreck]

Good thing you took a deep breath. Check my last post about your blood pressure. It would be a bad thing to have you stroking out.

Never did I say stick your head in the sand and wait it out. I could write a novel (a real boring one)on how things will change, or I can say it will pass. It's easier to just say things will change. And I never said corn prices arn't related to ethanol. I said corn prices have little or nothing to do with no new crp programs. And if you knew me, lazy and dumb are the last 2 words you would use to describe.

Take another deep breath and read before you post.

[gorrilla]

Whenever there is a different point of view on here it seems to turn into a smug lip off contest.

I just think saying things will change without being an active advocate for CRP is lazy and dumb. Did I say I am describing you, well I guess thats up to you to decide. My intentions on here are to let guys know who might not already, that yes, due to ethanol useage increasing and government programs decreasing, CRP and environmental advancements are VERY threatened and will CHANGE FOR THE WORSE.

If we just let somebody else worry about it, good luck. The majority of the nation is getting more and more out of touch with what it takes to protect the environment. Its always been the sportsmen protecting and paying for more than wildlife like water and air quality.

[BLACKJACK]

Quote:

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Straight corn prices aren't really all that responsible with there not being a general CRP sign-up. The federal gov. is trying to save pennies any place it can and that is why there is no new sign-up.

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We're spending billions in Iraq so we have to cut costs costs elsewhere. Penny wise and pound foolish.

Quote:

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What corn prices are doing is persuading some individuals to not re-enroll their existing CRP grounds (which there is funding for certain contract expiration years).

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You hit the nail on the head there. If a landowner can get $150 acre cash rent, why would he want to leave it in CRP for $100 and acre?

[BLACKJACK]

gorrila, you really need to take a chill pill sometimes!!! Can't you have a rational discussion with getting all hot and bothered?

[BLACKJACK]

It will be interesting to see how this switchgrass and ethanol concept pans out, is it a pie in the sky idea or will it financially work? It could be great for pheasants and wildlife but I just can't see how the switchgrass could be cut and hauled in a way to make it financially viable. With corn, at least the mechanism is there for mass harvest and hauling.

I'm not convinced corn and ethanol are really that great. Yes the corn farmers love it, but the livestock producers hate it, and eventually they have to pass their higher costs onto the consumers. Then considering it takes petroleum based fuels and fertilizer, plus some sort of fuel to distill the corn down into ethanol, is it really a net gain? I've read some reports that say it isn't.

What I really don't understand is why ethanol plants can't use their own product - ethanol - to fuel the distilling process instead of having to use coal, propane, switchgrass, etc?

Then consider the environmental factors. It takes a lot of water in these ethanol plants. Also, in the last 6-7 years that I've been going to SoDak pheasant hunting, I've seen more corn and soybeans being grown on marginal land, hilly pastures being tore up for cropland. Think of the wind and water erosion.

Yes people talk about jobs and less dependence on foreign oil when they promote ethanol but I think on the whole scale, inputs and outputs and environmental factors, ethanol is NOT beneficial.

[Eric Wettschreck]

I really don't want to steal the thread. This is good conversation. However, I'd like to address some of Blackjacks questions then I'll leave it alone for a different thread if one is started.

Switchgrass to ethanol will pan out and yes, it's worth it financially. It can be cut and bailed, hauled loose, etc. There are many ways to plant/harvest/haul that are efficient. Not only switchgrass, but anything that produces starch can be converted to alcohol. It's the engineering that's the difficult part. There are plants that are already using alternative plants besides corn.

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the corn farmers love it, but the livestock producers hate it, and eventually they have to pass their higher costs onto the consumers.

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Yes and no. If livestock guys are feeding corn then there is a price to pay. Corn costs are the same as fuel, fertilizer, vets, etc. It's a cost, a business expense if you will. All prices are going up. However, more and more producers are getting away from corn based feeds and using alternates. Good or bad? Time will tell.

Quote:

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Then considering it takes petroleum based fuels and fertilizer, plus some sort of fuel to distill the corn down into ethanol, is it really a net gain? I've read some reports that say it isn't.

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If I had a nickel for everytime I heard that, and read the so called reports, I'd be a multi super duper gabillionare. Let's not forget this is a very politically involved industry. All sides will produce propaganda for the good and bad of alcohol. Unfortunately it's the average Joe that is stuck in the middle of the mis-information. Without posting a novel I can very much tell you that the ratio of fuel used to fuel manufactured is very much in the favor of ethanol.

Quote:

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What I really don't understand is why ethanol plants can't use their own product - ethanol - to fuel the distilling process instead of having to use coal, propane, switchgrass, etc?

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Alcohol doesn't have enough Btu's to produce the heat required. There are plants using solid fuel boilers AND there are plants that use by-products of their own manufacturing to fuel boilers.

Quote:

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Then consider the environmental factors. It takes a lot of water in these ethanol plants

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Yup. The smart plants will re-use that water, the not so smart ones will not. No 2 plants are the same.

Quote:

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Yes people talk about jobs and less dependence on foreign oil when they promote ethanol but I think on the whole scale, inputs and outputs and environmental factors, ethanol is NOT beneficial.

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It's your opinion and you are surely granted that. Respectfully, I disagree. However, I'm heavily embedded in the ethanol industry so my opinion wil be extremely biased. Please do not ask me details about the engineering, layout, design, blah blah blah of these plants as I can't disclose propriatary information.

I hope some of your questions have been answered. Now, back to the original discussion.

[Cooter]

Quote:

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Does anyone know the tax cut per acre for CRP enrolled land, say for a 10 year period? Cooter who told you this??

Tax cut?, Tax cut????,what are you talking about????? I farm and have CRP and certainly don't get a tax cut on any CRP I have

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I was under the impression it was a tax related program rather than just cash/acre. The 10yr part - I thought you got more/acre the longer you enrolled.

[BLACKJACK]

Thanks for the response boilerguy!! Some of my questions were answered.... I'll have to do some more research and then start a new ethanol thread because I don't want to hijack this thread, but I do think CRP and ethanol and corn prices are linked, maybe indirectly, but they affect each other.

And now your user name makes more sense!!!

[Shane683]

I think that in most counties, the property taxes are the same if the land is enrolled into CRP or if the landowner is getting cash rent. I do know that in some counties if a landowner enrolls some land into a program under a perpetual easement the property taxes are reduced. CRP payment rates are the same - doesn't matter if you sign a 10 or 15 year contract.

[BendnSend]

Ok so let me see if i understand correctly. Taxes are the exact same on the land no matter if you farm it and make a profit on the grain compared to leaving it enrolled in the government CRP program and not clearing any profit? I dont understand how the can set the same tax rate for these 2 types of properties when 1 is obvisouly putting more money back in someone else's pocket? Thats like saying I should pay the same property tax as my neighbor who has a 1.5 million dollar home when im living in a trailer house!

[Cooter]

Obviously I'm not the CRP pro but I think to answer your question lets say the taxes are the same, however you have at least those two options to make a profit/acre. One would be rent or plant crops, the other would be to collect/acre from the CRP program.

I think what's significant is the CRP program sounds like its gonna provide the lowest amount of income when you compare it to either leasing or growing your own cash crop whether it be corn, beans, etc.

If you have a hobby farm or a retirement type situation or you are financially well off CRP is probably attractive. If you're trying to make a living like most its tough to look at much other than the bottom line. BTW - does an average net income of $300/acre of corn sound legit with current and predicted prices? If so that's a lot more $ than say $80ish/acre for CRP enrollent.

Neat topic, lots of different angles and other issues impacted. One already mentioned, cattle prices, hit my uncle hard last year when he sold his feeders.

[gorrilla]

Without getting in a pizzing match and at the risk of more snide tough guy remarks aimed my way,

can't we all agree that the loss of anymore CRP is a terrible thing??????

That's my main point and some people would rather debate other things ethanol, tax breaks, etc.

How would everyone suggest we combat the forces trying to keep acres from starting or staying in CRP?????

P.S. you can't tell me Boilerguy, even though you apparently are tied into the ethanol business that people dealing with ethanol plant think more acres in CRP and out of production is a good thing. Thats the mentality I think we are up against.

[BobT]

My property taxes are not based on whether I am farming my land or not, at least not to my knowledge. I have never filed any statements or avidavit to specify whether I am farming my land or it is setting idle. I do to the extent that I take advantage of the farm programs and must report my land use as part of my contract but I have only been involved since the last bill was passed. There was no change in my tax base when I finally decided to participate. Prior to that, my land was just land.

If I could enroll my land in CRP I would be compensated for it but it doesn't come without some sacrifice on my end. I would be in a contract that also requires me to manage noxious weeds, erosion, etc. It's not just free money as some might think.

It's a matter of choice. Do I put in the work and take the risk of farming it or do I let it set idle for 10 years for a moderate compensation? Yes, I may have a potential to produce well and make more money but then I have to put in the time, put up the cost, and take the risk for that potential. On the flip side, I also have the potential to lose big.

And finally, if I enroll it in CRP (provided my land qualifies) I can rest assured of the satisfaction of providing nesting and feeding cover for wildlife. This too has its merit.

Bob

[Pistol Pete]

BobT, well said, and correct. My farm land is based on value not on what I grow on it or do with it. The same as building a small house VS a large house that costs more. The larger house increases the value of the propety therefor it is taxed more.

As far as switch grass instead of corn, I'm not so sure. I have switch grass in my CRP and it sure doesn't look like much. It is a very thin stemmed plant and I'm not sure how many times you can cut it and expect regrowth. Expensive seed also if memory serves me right.

[BLACKJACK]

You guys have it correct, your property taxes are based on the assessed value of your property, it doesn't matter whats grown on the land. If I build a McMansion and a big machine shed, my assessed value goes up and my property taxes go up.