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      Members Only Fluid Forum View   08/08/2017

      Fluid forum view allows members only to get right to the meat of this community; the topics. You can toggle between your preferred forum view just below to the left on the main forum entrance. You will see three icons. Try them out and see what you prefer.   Fluid view allows you, if you are a signed up member, to see the newest topic posts in either all forums (select none or all) or in just your favorite forums (select the ones you want to see when you come to Fishing Minnesota). It keeps and in real time with respect to Topic posts and lets YOU SELECT YOUR FAVORITE FORUMS. It can make things fun and easy. This is especially true for less experienced visitors raised on social media. If you, as a members want more specific topics, you can even select a single forum to view. Let us take a look at fluid view in action. We will then break it down and explain how it works in more detail.   The video shows the topic list and the forum filter box. As you can see, it is easy to change the topic list by changing the selected forums. This view replaces the traditional list of categories and forums.   Of course, members only can change the view to better suit your way of browsing.   You will notice a “grid” option. We have moved the grid forum theme setting into the main forum settings. This makes it an option for members only to choose. This screenshot also shows the removal of the forum breadcrumb in fluid view mode. Fluid view remembers your last forum selection so you don’t lose your place when you go back to the listing. The benefit of this feature is easy to see. It removes a potential barrier of entry for members only. It puts the spotlight on topics themselves, and not the hierarchical forum structure. You as a member will enjoy viewing many forums at once and switching between them without leaving the page. We hope that fluid view, the new functionality is an asset that you enjoy .
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Mike Wallace

Octane: 90 vs 87. Worth $.10 per gallon?

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Mike Wallace

I'm not the greatest, or even second greatest, with math so is there a significant performance/mileage benefit of running 90 octane vs. 87 octane?

I have a '06 Kia Sedona (yes, it's a minivan, please be kind) and see that these two octanes are always $.10/gallon apart. What gives? would I be better off using the higher octane?

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Gissert

There is such a big misconception out there about what the octane rating means.

Simply put, octane is a measure of resistance to detonation. If the owners manual of your vehicle states that 87 octane is the suggested fuel, that is what you should run. Many folks equate higher octane with better milage/performance. Not necessarily true. If you have an engine that is built up for high performance, then a higher octane fuel is in order.

Sure, your vehicle may run on 90 octane just fine, but you are not really saving any money.

Most vehicles in the last 10-15 years are designed to run on 87 octane.

I had a pal put 100LL into stock snomobile about 10 years back. It fouled plugs and ran terrible until he got some regular pump gas back into the system. The engine just did not have enough compression to get the fuel to burn efficiently.

I think you'll be just fine on 87 octane.

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BobT

You are correct that higher octane does not mean better performance or mileage. In fact, my 2001 Triton will lose both if I run on anything higher than 87 octane.

Using octane that is not what you engine is tuned for has an effect on engine timing. Simply put, different octanes react differently combusting at different rates and the engine timing needs to adjust accordingly.

Bob

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muchowja

The super unleaded higher octane is usually achieved by adding ethanol. Ethanol does not have as much energy as gasoline. That's why people who run e-85 get 2/3 to 3/4 the fuel mileage as if they ran straight gas. So it stands to reason that you won't get better gas mileage, you will probably get a little worse.

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Mike Wallace

Thanks, everyone for the info. Much appreciated.

Mike

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Jeremy airjer W

Good answers everyone!!

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Black_Bay

Quote:

The super unleaded higher octane is usually achieved by adding ethanol. Ethanol does not have as much energy as gasoline. That's why people who run e-85 get 2/3 to 3/4 the fuel mileage as if they ran straight gas. So it stands to reason that you won't get better gas mileage, you will probably get a little worse.


All grades of gas have E-10 added. There are some 93 octane pumps that are non oxygenated but they are for collector cars, snowmobiles, boats...not standard passenger vehicles.

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Sonicrunch

Quote:

Good answers everyone!!


Agreed, great answers by all.

I would like to add that if your vehicle does recommend a higher octane than 87, you are best off running the higher octane gasoline.

For example, Nissan recommends that I use 91 octane in my 98 Maxima. Whenever I have tried running the lower octane, there is power loss and the milage goes down. So much so, that my girlfriend once filled my tank for me. and I could tell she didn't use 91 octane! It felt so sluggish!

The Maxima has high compression. So, when I run 87 octane, it senses pre-ignition, and backs off the timing.

By the way, I would realize no benifit from running 92 or 93 octane.

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Fishbreath1

This topic always interests me now since I have a newer vehicle that states in the owner's manual to run no lower than 87 octane, and up to 93 octane for optimum performance. "Optimum" performance is simply allowing the knock sensor to time the ignition spark a bit earlier (more degrees before TDC than with 87 octane) which gives the engine a bit more power, I suppose. I get plenty of power and mileage with regular gas so thats what I use. Higher octane will resist detonation, but also it burns hotter. If heat is the enemy of all things engine and transmission related, why use the higher octane? Because older cars that don't use knock sensors and have high compression ratios (about 10.5:1 or higher) require the resistance to detonation high octane fuel provides, especially under high heat conditions like racing. OK, no more rambling, just my $0.02.

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Sonicrunch

High octane gas does not burn hotter.

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Whoaru99

Quote:

High octane gas does not burn hotter.


Right. In some respects it burns cooler - well, actually slower, I believe.

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muchowja

All grades of gas do not have e-10 added to them. It states right on the pump if ethanol is added or not.

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Whoaru99

Actually, for Minnesota, I believe all grades DO have ethanol unless it's specifically stated they don't. Those that don't must have the non-oxygenated decal affixed to the pump.

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Papa Grump

Quote:

In some respects it burns cooler - well, actually slower, I believe.


Your correct- The higher the octane, the slower the burn. There is a relation the how much compression you have and how good the airflow( heads) are. In my stock car motors we use 110 octane fuel with 13-1 static compression. Any lower in the octane and we burn up the pistons because the explosion is so much quicker and detonation occurs. Yet on the 9-1 motors that I work on, which are similar in compression to today's motors, regular 87 octane fuel produces more power and cooler temps than the higher octane. Found this all on the dyno and on the track and supported the theory when I tried 93 octane in my truck pulling the River Pro up to the Sturgeon Exersion last year and averged 10 mpg. Tried the 91 octane on the next tank and averged 11.5. Put 87 octane in on the next tank and averaged 14 mpg.

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BobT

That slower burning characteristic of higher octane is precisely why it was advertised for older engines that had developed a knock. The knock was caused by ignition timing that was too early and using higher octane delayed ignition just enough to compensate. It was a bandaid for a timing problem but the fuel industry didn't say that. Not only did it solve the knock the engine performance improved because the timing was more accurate for the fuel being burned. It was this advertising that burned it into our brains that higher octane was better and it stuck. Take the vehicle to a mechanic and have it properly tuned and return to using 87 octane and everything gets rosy again.

Bob

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