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Super Black, March 5, 2007
Posted March 5, 2007
Post deleted by Super Black
Nice pics superblack. Looks like you guys had a ball! I am taking a stab and saying that you guys were fishing north of the border right? I can't wait to get back home next week for spring break and those walleye pics got me excited!
Awesome pics SB. Looks like you guys had a blast!
Yep, was north of the boarder, way north!!! Man I wish I lived closer!!
Posted March 6, 2007
Targeting smallmouth in the winter and especially at those depths is very hard on their chance of survival to make it through to the spring. It is very frowned upon from those that have studied their wintering behavior. I hope you kept them all, because, chances are they are laying upside down below the ice right now if you did not.
Gee thanks Rainy dud. If we would have thought any of those fish did not have a chance of surviving we would have kept them. They sure seemed spunky enough and swam back with enthusiasm. Thanks for ripping.
Any fish pulled out of that much water has a harder time surviving if they're not handled correctly. Fishing at those depths requires playing the fish longer and allowing for them to adjust to the change in depth. I don't personally know SB or how he fishes, but that's a pretty serious accusation of basically killing 100 smallies.
Wow, Great report!!! What was the lenght on those crappies???
Largest was 16"!!!!
HEY SUPER BLACK,
SOME GREAT FISH PICTURES & THANKS FOR POSTING THEM, I WAS THERE (3S) ON WEDNESDAY & WE DID WELL., SORRY WE MISSED YOU, BUT IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE YOU NEEDED ANY ADVICE.
AS FAR AS THE SMALLIES YOU CAUGHT, WE FISHED IN MANITOU 1 DAY A FEW YEARS AGO AND CAUGHT 5 SMALLIES BETWEEN 3.5 & 4.5 LBS...WHILE FISHING FOR LAKERS, THOSE FISH WERE CAUGHT IN 55 FOOT OF WATER. I HAVE CAUGHT ALOT OF SMALLIES IN DEEP WATER, AND MANY TIMES THEY RELATE TO TO THE SAME STUCTURE AS WALLEYES., SO SUPER BLACK I REALLY DOUBT IF YOU HURT THOSE SMALLIES ONE BIT, AS FAR AS STUDIES ON RAINY IN AMERICAN WATERS ON SMALLIES HAS NEVER HAPPENED, CANADIAN SIDE RAINY, I COULD NOT SAY, BUT HIGHLY DOUBT IT, FURTHER MORE WE LIVE ON A BORDER LAKE AND SMALLIES HAVE NO SEASON OR SLOT & YOU ARE WITHIN YOUR LEGAL RIGHT TO TARGET SMALLIES IF YOU WISH., ON THE OTHER HAND IF YOU WERE FISHING FOR WALLEYES & CAUGHT THOSE NICE SMALLIES...I BET YOU THOUGHT THAT WAS FUN, AND WHAT A BONUS TO OUR TRIP....BET YOU WERE A WISHING YOU WERE LIVING UP HERE...HUH??? I CAN HONESTLY SAY THAT IS EXACTLY WHY I LIVE HERE.
The MNR has made a video about wintering smallmouth and the anglers who happen upon there wintering grounds. Smallmouth go into a hibernation state and messing with them during this state is not what we should be doing. The video depicks how a wintering population can be easily caught if you get on top of them. The video is letting us anglers to know not to do this or they will shutdown the smallMouth bass fishing from late fall through the winter.
Gord Pitzer from Infisherman, who was also district manager of the MNR up here, has stated in many us his articles the danger of messing with wintering smallouth.
Dr. Ridgeway who has being doing the longest running smallouth bass study in Ontario has relayed much information in his disertions to "leave wintering smallouth alone".
Any biologist in Ontario will tell you the same thing. Leave them alone!
Smallouth bass are at the northern end of their range up here and they have adapted with a type of hibernation to allow them to exist through the long frozen winter period.
FISHMISTER IS CORRECT. YOU CAN DO AS YOU PLEASE LIKE HE DOES OVER HERE, WITH NO REGARD TO THE DAMAGE YOU MAY BE DOING BY MESSING WITH DEEP WINTERING SMALLIES. THE DEPTH ALONE IS ENOUGH TO TOTALLY SCREW WITH A SMALLIE, LET ALONE, IT IS IN HIBERATION STATE. FISH THE OTHER SPECICES IN THE WINTER AND LEAVE THE BASS ALONE, ACTIONS LIKE THIS CLOSE FISHERIES DOWN.
Hibernation? If they are hibernating, then why would they so easily be caught?
Just like other freshwater fish during the winter months, bass do "slow down", but their metabolism.. it's still there.. Here on Chequamegon Bay, I have watched these bass on camera numerous times, and they actively come into lures. Not all the time, just like other fish species, but at times they will move great distances to track down your lure.
The one thing I do agree on, is that these fish can easily be targeted, as they school in their winter haunts. Big schools!!! And once located, they can be caught one after the other on the best of days. So protection for them, ie slots, etc is a good thing to hold a true trophy fishery.
Another thing I agree on, is the depths you catch them from. For me, the fish are caught in 20FOW to 25FOW. And just like other fish species, when caught out of 30FOW or more, they become prone to the "benz" or their air bladders puff beyond recouperation.
But overall, from the thousands of smallmouth I have caught in the winter months.. I would have to say that, you do not have to leave them alone as much as this study says, unless they are coming from really deep water. I have seen very few dead smallies in the areas I have fished, and most I would say come from swallowed hooks on tip-ups.
Where you are is along way from up here in Ontario. These fish stop most feeding for the entire winter from October until april. Thats along time.
They simply suspend in a slow metabolic rate and swim only a few yards the entire winter period. They need the bait put right into their face for them to eat it.
Simple put, these fish are starving themselves through the winter and absolutely do not need to be yanked from over 40 feet of water and played with on the ice. They have little to no food reserves to get them through. They are in a suspended state that will dictate how well they make it through the winter.
If you put a camera down in the small wintering holes you will see many barely moving down there. They will be in the same spot from Oct. till April and if you put the bait in front of there lips they will eat it. Wintering zones are few and far between and that packs the fish into wintering in huge groups.
Like I said " leave them alone and think about this one" or they will close the season down completely if there becomes a problem.
HI RAINY DUDE,
OK, IF THE CANADIANS HAVE DONE STUDIES ON THEM & WANT TO PROTECT THEM. THEN BY ALL MEANS DO SO, HOWEVER YOU CAN'T ASK SOMEONE TO NOT FISH THEM WHEN THERE LEGAL TO FISH, AND IF YOU CATCH SMALLIES WHILE FISHING ANOTHER SPECIES, NO ONE HAS COMMITED A CRIME. IF YOU REALLY WANT DECREASE THE AMOUNT OF FISH TAKEN IN CANADIAN WATER, BUY OUT YOUR COMMERCIAL FISHERMAN. I HAVE WATCHED THEM PULL THOUSANDS OF CRAPPIES OUT PLACES LIKE BLACK STURGEON, STOKES BAY, PORTERS INLET, YOU TALK ABOUT STRESS ON YOUR FISH POPULATION. ALL SPECIES GET CAUGHT IN THESE NETS, NOW THATS STRESS.
Posted March 7, 2007
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YIKES! Probably should stay out of it, but can't resist. I might pose the question why the powers to be in the managment of both the Minnesota and Canadian waters would leave the season open if this is true as you state Rainy Dude. I haven't ever known them to leave it in the hands of the average joe fisherman to do the right thing. I also agree with Fishmeister that if you truly are concerned with the future of the fishery you'd be better off getting the nets out of the water. I don't think we want to compare the catch and release mortality with the commercial netting detriment on fisheries.
Why get excited about the "Carp" of Rainy Lake? The reproductive potential is high. Some folks think that they just waste space in the water.
The answer to your question is not too many anglers have shown that they are targeting smallmouth in the winter. If we continue to see smallmouth targeted then you will see a closed season. In fact, they will close the season far greater than whats needed. This is the way of conservation up here. A few more reports like this and they will shut the fishery down.
Carp are another mans golden dreamfish. Different strokes for different folks.
Granted the reproduction factor is very high for smallmouth bass. But the largest and oldest fish in the system are the most effected. I, like others, like to fish for big fish, and winter kill is the most serious condender at what fish are available.
TO BE HONEST, I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF ANYONE EVER TARGETING SMALLIES IN THE WINTER. I HAVE HEARD OF MAYBE 5 CAUGHT IN THE WINTER 26 YEARS I HAVE BEEN FISHING RAINY, AS MOOSEFART HAS SPOKEN, MOST PEOPLE DO NOT EVER FISH SMALLIES & MANY STILL CONSIDER THEM A ROUGH FISH. I FISH SMALLIES WHEN MY BROTHERS COME UP & ASK TO GO SMALLIE FISHING, BUT I DON'T FISH THEM OTHERWISE., HOWEVER THEY ARE A FUN FISH TO CATCH & ARE A GREAT FIGHT. 2 MY BROTHERS CONSIDER THEM THEIR FAVORITE & I DO CARE ABOUT THEM.
I'M NOT TRYING TO TURN THIS INTO SHOOTING MATCH RAINY DUDE, TRYING TO MAKE YOU UNDERSTAND SUPER BLACK REALLY DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG, AND YOU WERE A BIT HARSH TOWARDS HIM. ALL FISHES MOTABLISM(SP)SLOW DOWN DURING THE WINTER, I GUESS MY BODY WOULD SLOW DOWN TOO, IF MY BODY HAD TO ADJUST TO THAT MUCH OF A WATER TEMP DROP.
ITS FUN TO DISCUSS DIFFERENT VEIWS, BUT ALSO REMAIN OPEN MINDED., AND IF ONE PERSONS VIEWS MAY BE DIFFERENT THEN YOURS, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEIR VIEWS ARE WRONG., GUESS THAT IS WHAT IS GREAT ABOUT BOTH OUR COUNTRIES, WE BOTH ENJOY FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
I really don't want to get into to this, but I need to inject my expert opinion on the matter.
Smallmouth are not targeted in the winter time by anglers, because 97% of ice anglers wouldn't know where to start when fishing them, myself included. Sounds like superblack happened to stumble upon a big school when he was targeting walleyes...there is nothing wrong with that, as long as the fish were playing for an extended amount of time, there will be no harm to the smallies.
As for biological reasons and research here is the facts to set this straight. As a Bio. Major, I am taking ecology. My professor, is a well know Lake Ecologist, primarily known for his studies involving the spiney water flea. Who is actually studing the outbreak on Rainy as we speak.
When I asked him about this question he gave me a few answers and directed me to research material and scientific abstracts on the topic that were created by his contemporaries. Here is what I found.
Due to the difficult task of observing the smallmouth behavior in the winter there is little research available online for smallmouth bass, though many tests have been conducted on largemouth bass because their habitat range is generally open water 12 months out of the year.
When the water hits 40 degrees Smallmouth seek deeper water, generally 20+ feet. In lakes such as Rainy, Kabetogama, Namakan, Sandpoint, etc. This depth will be more like 30-40 feet. Water temperatures are more favorable to homeostasis of a smallmouth bass at these depths, which means that the water at these depths are more favorable for the organism to feel comfortable and also to maintain optimal metabolic rates. Hence, the reason whey smallies school up as much as they do in the winter is because they are relating to the same temperature for optimeal survival.
According to Shuter, Maclean, Fry and Regier in the 1980 study titled Stochastic Simulation of Temperature Effects on First-Year Survival of Smallmouth Bass
" The second stage extends over the first winter, when the young subsist on accumulated energy reserves. Because the ratio of energy stored to basal metabolic rate increases with size, large fish can withstand winter better than small fish. The results from these and other studies were incorporated into a deterministic model of the relations between temperature and first-year survival of small-mouth bass."
All the excerpt is stating is that the older/larger fish from a given population of smallmouth bass in any given lake has a better chance at surviving any stimuli associated with winter than young smallmouth. Now if all the smallies that superblack was catching were in fact young of the year or small bass in general, there would be a greater chance of those fish not surviving, but since they were decent smallies, survival rate should have been enhanced greatly.
As far as the food situation stands, Smallies, like other species of fish, have to feed in the winter time. Smallmouth metabolism does slow down, as has been mentioned but without any sustainance in the winter months the effects on the smallmouth population would be detrimental. According to another Lake Ecology Professor in an article accessed via the UMD online library "Small environmental triggers, such as a weather change(temperature or otherwise) will entice inactive smallmouth bass to actively feed for short periods of time."
Smallmouth do tend to "hibernate" if you should choose to call it that, but it is really not hibernating. Total hibernation would render them suseptible to exterpitation(local extinction) of a given school due to predator/prey interaction. Granted also that smallies will not move as far as they do in the summer months, but they by know means stay in an area that is only a square yard to so. Smallies in the winter time will move up to 100-200 yards as long as the water temperature/salinity conditions are agreeable to their metabolic rate.
So as the story goes superblack happened to hit the school. and due to the weather conditions(front change and temperature change) the smallies became active and started to feed. He has done no harm, nor has anyone else that has caught a smallie in the winter time. It's just one of those things that happens.
I am not trying to offend anyone I just wanted to set the record straight with the evidence. Rainy_Dude has his opinion and I respect that. Smallies are wonderful fish and we don't want to see anything happen to the smallie population in this lake as it is one of the best smallie lakes in the world. On the other hand, no one is doing any harm be catching a few smallies in the winter. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that's fine.
Take Care Guys and Good Luck Fishing!!
Wow guy's, Didn't know this was going to get the response it did. All I wanted to do is to show that Rainy Lake is a world class fishery and that a few guy's had a blast fishing. I visit Rainy Lake a half dozen times throughout the year and really appreciate what the lake has to offer as to the variety of trophy fish. And no, I wasn't "targeting" smallies just for the fact they are there. I was just fishing where the fish were! I think next time I'll just exclude my posts from further outings and then nobody will ever know... Thanks again Rainy Lake, you are a superb fishery.
Hey Tearin Lips!
Just to clarify That post came from Rainy Dude not Rainydaze. Also surely a slip up on your very in depth post. Organism rather than Orgasism. I did get a kick out that as it sounds like your referring to something other than bass. Ha! Rainydaze only catches smallmouth by accident. I'm a Walleye Boy, and wish everyone else would target Smallmouth.
Sorry Daze, didn't mean to...I just got so worried about the details...I know that a spelling error slipped, it happens. Hope I didn't offend you!!!!
SuperBlack...thats not that attitude to have...We love to hear posts about great trips on Rainy! Keep it up man!!!!!
Take Care Guys and Good Luck Fishing!!
BTW spelling error are corrected now!
EXCELLENT POST, YOU WEREN'T DOING ANY SIDELINE ACTIVITIES WHILE YOU WERE TYPING THAT POST WERE YOU...L.O.L.
SUPER BLACK CALLED ME TODAY & ALMOST FELT BAD FOR CATCHING THOSE FISH...THATS CRAZY!!! IF I WAS ON THOSE FISH, I WOULD HAVE STAYED & HAD A BLAST. SUPERBLACK, WE ALL HAVE ENJOYED YOUR POSTS AND PICTURES AND WHAT A TRIBUTE TO RAINY YOU SHOWED US. KEEP IT UP!!!
once you put your hook in the water the rest is up to the fish super black, keep having fun.
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