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Why so many 26 and 27 inchers?


GoggleEye

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I'll second that about the replicas.

I haven't gotten a fish big enought to have one made yet, but a couple people i know have and they say they are as good as the real thing in looks and size and they wont age on the wall.

Take a couple good photos and let er' GO!

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I'm no biologist by any means but I feel genetics play a large role as well. I've caught countless walleyes between 26-28" across many lakes throughout MN. But only a handful above that mark. It takes many things to go right to produce a 30" walleye. Forage, genetics, and time being a select few. Mille Lacs can produce 30" fish just like any other lake but many just don't grow that big - plain and simple. With that said coupled with the fact that a lot of these 28" fish are taken out as trophies greatly reduces one's chances at a true 30". They're in there - no doubt. Just not at the rate as say.. Saganaga or Lake Eerie... fishing pressure being the main detrement. I also agree with having fiberglass replicas done. Get some great photos... some measurements and put her back! You'll get more satisfaction knowing that your fish is still out there swimming.

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Without a doubt there are 30"+ walleyes in ML. I have never caught one of those 30"+ out of Mille Lacs. From my experience on other lakes, when you see a bit of structure that you are hammering the 19" fish, move just off of that structure and attack those areas that are holding one or two good marks on your electronics. You may not catch one, but just maybe one of those is worth the effort.

Example: Up in the boundary waters during mid June you can bobber fish the walleyes between 6-13 foot of water on any piece of structure. I would always catch enough to eat and then go for a big girl. Try just a bit deeper, or on the flat just off the structure. Most likely they are just cruising or sitting on the bottom. I have found that these fish are more opportunistic than aggressive chasers. It takes a lot of effort for them to chase around a school of bait fish. They will sit and wait for others to push the food to them.

On Mille Lacs, I watch for the huge crowds of people swarm around one piece of structure (marked by the large launch boats that are anchored). I cruise the outside edges with blades/lindy rigs during the summer. Bring the food to them and you will have success. You can hook into big fish anytime, but if you are going to target them, that is what I am talking about. Some people may say I am full of it, but then again, if I was doing what everyone else was doing I wouldn't have the fish that I have. Biggest piece of advice, try something different and you may just be surprised. You also may fail, but at least you learned something.

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The question I have is what is two inches? If 28 or 29 inchers became common then they wouldn't really be trophies anymore. Just like a 26 or 27 isn't really a trophy now (at least not to me out of Mille Lacs). This assumes that its possible to make that happen.

I think the DNR put the limit at 28 because they know based on their data that fish bigger than that are very rare under normal circumstances. Raising it higher would basically make it catch release only for a trophy, and there would be very little if any benefit. I personally do not care for replicas, and if I catch a trophy I want to take it home and get it mounted.

Also, it's true that fish have the potential to never quit growing, but at some point when they get old they begin growing very slowly if at all. I have heard of males topping out in the low twenties. On bad years or when they're really old they could lose weight.

I think the DNR knows what they're doing on this one. It boils down to whether or not you want a catch and release only trophy fishery, and I personally don't.

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Care to share any tips/ presentations for the bigger boys!!! Still looking for one over 28"

Please post a photo of that Monster!!!

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Rodmaker,

This one was caught June 15, 2005 and was in the middle of a 17 FOW flat off a rock point. It was 33.5". It was caught on a Pink Northland Jig and a Lindy Munchies. Weird enough, the temperature dropped 47 degrees over night and all of a sudden I got this on the end of my line. No, this is not a Mille Lacs fish.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s98/Trophyeyes/Matt33.jpg

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Pretty simple red hook, bobber fishin, right time, and that mootee scent. rodmaker, you from moundsview?, iam right across hiway in shoreview

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I talked to a conservation officer last year. He said by their calculations there's some where around a 1000 walleye a year taken out of Mille Lacs over 28". This brings up the question is a 28" walleye really a trophy at that point? I understand not everyone gets to fish everyday but neither do I. I usually only fish on the weekends and I've caught more fish over the 28" mark than I can keep track of. If it's not 30"+, I'm not sure why anyone would want to mount it anyhow. "Hey come check out this 28" walleye I mounted It's so big that only 90% of walleye fisherman have caught one this big, whoopee!" What so special about something that can be done on almost any lake at any time? The fall before last a couple friends of mine were on Mille Lacs and boated 13 walleye over 28" in one night. He has the pics to prove it.

With all that said a 30"+ is truly a trophy on any lake and will never be common. I've only caught a handful of these and I'm still searching for my 32"+. I'd be in favor of a 30" slot on Mille Lacs. I also agree that Mille Lacs seems to have a hard time producing fish over 30", but is it because they keep getting caught and the stress takes years off their life? Is it netting related? One thing is for sure, harvesting a 1000 walleye a year over 28" can't help the situation. Just through friends of mine I've heard of a half dozen or so over that 30" mark this year, not to mention all the ones I've heard about on this forum. I think that there's no disputing the fact that if the slot went up to 30" we would catch more 30" fish. Would it eventually be in the numbers that were seeing in the 25"-27" class? No, not all walleye grow that big, but there would be a lot more than there is now. That's for sure!

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Like a prior post stated it is genetics pure and simple. The Mille Lacs gene pool (and most other lakes) will not kick out numbers of 30" walleyes not matter what. You can feed human beings all the best food and 7ft 6" people are still going to be rare. Most fish will stop at the average which looks to be around 26 to 28" for northern walleyes. A few will exceed that - they are genetic mutants in some respects. Even if all those 30+ are released, they still reproduce with the average gene pool so it won't increase the numbers of 30+ over time. I still advocate releasing the big walleyes but don't expect 30+ eyes to ever be common.

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We need to go this Summer so I can get one over 28". It will be released even if I would get one 29" or bigger. Keep me in mind!!!

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Contrary to many strong opions on this post, its nothing other than catch and keep fishing pressure limiting the potential for 30" walters in Mille Lacs.

Are there other fisheries with more genetic capability to get bigger? Probably.

But if you think fishing pressure doesn't have something to do with 28+" fish being common, don't kid yourself...

As far as a 28" being a trophy. Sure. If its not impressing you, then your not as cool as you think. I wouldn't mind it though if the regs. protected those fish up to 30" someday... No lake outside of the metro area gets such traveling pressure in this state, not even close.

Just try to find the tip of a major flat in the winter(or summer) and see if you aren't surrounded by tons of anglers or old holes etc. It is a LARGE lake, but that doesn't mean the harvest doesn't effect it.

What I don't understand, is the DNR putting a top end to a slot on Red at 26"...???... I've heard many yutz's bragging about the 26.5" eaters they caught this year. DUH!

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I too would like to see the slot raised to 30. Nothing wrong with keeping a 28 incher for the wall, that is your right you get by buying a liscense, but I would personally have a problem keeping one of these beauties. Photo it, measure it, and release it, then go home to your taxidermist and have a replica made!

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Do doubt that fishing pressure plays a big part!!! Last year I made a few trips mid to late June during the week, to try and get away from the crowds you see during the weekend. It was great. Still by no means all by yourself , but alot better.

I still think 28 and bigger is a trophy. It's a blast catching all those fish 25" and bigger. Each one I measure, take photos and release, and just shake my head , I still get pumped on those fish over 25!! Last year my count of fish over 25 " Was 21. 27 3/4" was the biggest. I don't get a chance to get up there every weekend. I think last year I got up there 7 times before the 4th of July.

As far as mounting 28". Can't really blame anyone for getting a mount done. This is a trophy fish!!! I think that if anyone catching one this big would take multiple photos, releasing and giving graphite replicas a shot would not be disappointed!!!

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For each year class(cohort), the mortality rate is 35-50% for each year..The fact is that there are 30 plus inch fish in the lake, theres just not many of them... It takes many years for fish to grow 3 er 4 inches once they reach that larger size in this case Im talking about those 26 and 27 inchers, so if you want to see bigger fish just continue to release those big fish and give them a chance...I dont think that there is much to complain about, a 26in fish is sure nice...my 2 cents

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“Trophy” can only be decided by the angler himself/herself. There is no way I am going to tell someone there 28” walleye is not a trophy. For me, the 10lbs point is really the break point. However, I know what it is like to catch a fish that you have been dreaming of for years. I also know that if I remove a fish there is no chance it will grow to its full potential.

Some things to think about:

If you are not sure about keeping it, if you don’t know if your wife/girlfriend/husband/whatever won’t approve of putting a fish on the wall, please put it back as soon as possible. Consider the length of the fight and the health of the fish. If you are struggling to revive it, might as well keep a 28”+. On the flip side, if it is practically jumping out of your hands in the boat, this fish is ready to go and will have a good chance of survival.

Word of advice:

Dream of your trophies and set your own limits before you are in the heat of the moment, that way you remove the emotion of the situation.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Great thread. The consensus is that its catch and keep. I would agree, but did anyone ask the DNR why fish seem to be stuck at this size? What does the DNR say about extending the upper end of the slot? I have a hard time thinking it is genetics or forage myself. If somone has a compelling argument for those two, I'd like to hear it.

One person pointed out that they believe fish plateau at a certain point and stop growing, using the example of height in humans. At this point its worth pointing out that fish experience indeterminate growth.

from wikipedia:

Quote:

indeterminate growth refers to growth that is not terminated in contrast to determinate growth that stops once a genetically pre-determined structure has completely formed


Others have pointed to forage. As has been pointed out, there are plenty of great prey items with a modest population of tullibee, a great perch hatch and distribution of different sized perch, and even some sucker. The lake supports trophy populations of pike, musky, and smallmouth, so there is plenty of forage available. You would be hard pressed to find a better lake as far as walleye reproduction AND forage. You could get into a canadian shield lake with lots of cisco and whitefish, but not the same ideal spawning habitat as ML.

Mille Lacs is an amazing combo of habitat and fish assemblages. If people want to catch those 30"+ fish, they will have to look elsewhere or find a way to get the slot changed.

Maybe we can pry Dick Sternberg away from Leech and Green to come back and argue over Mille Lacs again grin.gifgrin.gifgrin.gif

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Ya, I agree Dachise. I don't think fish ever really stop growing. I am sure it slows to a point of almost nothing in the latter years, but I believe that fish will die of natural causes, disease, or predation before they stop growing 100%. Mille Lacs does have good forage available or you wouldn't see fat healthy fish like the ones swimming around in the big pond. I think the regulations are holding a lot of these back from reaching 30+ inches. Especially the big females.

GoggleEye

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Does anyone know if the DNR nets some of those females to milk the eggs? If they do, I wonder what size the bigger ones are?

What is the biggest walleye caught on Mille Lacs? Length or weight and what year?

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As I read this whole thread there are alot of good points and there are some ones I disagree on. There are a hundred different reasons why the fish may not get as big in Mille Lacs as lakes such as Erie or Sag or Lake of the Woods, some are as pointed out genetics, fishing pressure (1000 28"+ fish taken out), forage is part of it, and natural causes. But there are fish over 30"+ in Mille Lacs without a doubt in my mind, and there are fish that die due to old age in that lake. BUT they don't get that big unless someone graciously previous released it or it just lucky and not stupid enough to fall for someone's lure. Another reason you guys are forgetting is the netting the Tribe(s) do on Mille Lacs, they do get to take an alotted number of fish (poundage) off the pond and do you think they care if its a 16"er or a 29 or 30"er? So that is another factor, and as their (Tribe's) numbers of poundage of walleye will increase over the years that they can take off by net, we (whiteman) can take less walleyes out than in previous years. Joe Fellegy had an article on this in the Outdoor News about a month ago, which broke down the numbers per tribe and per year until 2011 or 2012 I believe. So you can't tell me thats not a reason for why those 24-27"ers don't get to be 30"+ when they get caught in a net.

Quote:

Some people may say I am full of it, but then again, if I was doing what everyone else was doing I wouldn't have the fish that I have.


Quote:

Some things to think about:

If you are not sure about keeping it, if you don’t know if your wife/girlfriend/husband/whatever won’t approve of putting a fish on the wall, please put it back as soon as possible.


These are valid points and I do agree with you Trophy Eyes. If someone thinks a 28"+ walleye is a trophy they have every right to keep it or eat it. To me that isn't a trophy unless it weighed 10 lbs. or more.

Quote:

If it's not 30"+, I'm not sure why anyone would want to mount it anyhow. "Hey come check out this 28" walleye I mounted It's so big that only 90% of walleye fisherman have caught one this big, whoopee!" What so special about something that can be done on almost any lake at any time?


PieEyed I do agree with you on this statement too, because its really not a trophy when their is a slot in place so fish can get that big in the first place, and when anyone and their mom can go to the pond and catch a fish 28"! That is why IMO it has to be 10lbs or more for me to mount (real, not a graphite, carbon, fiberglass fake!) no matter the lake, but if someone does catch a 28"+ fish and wants to mount it more power to them I guess. If I did catch a 28"er I'd keep it to eat or take a pic and put her back, depending on if I needed meat or not and I wouldn't feel bad about sticking the knife to it either. I have eaten big walleyes (26-32"ers) before, and to me they tasted the same as a 14 or 15"er! So when someone tells me that bigger walleyes are not good eating thats hoggwash to me, because I know better.

Quote:

Milac is a great lake. I drive four hours one way twice a month just to catch and release 20 plus inch walleyes. I hope this summer is as good as last summer.


Lundeye all I can say is WOW and I grew up just under 30 minutes from the pond and hardly fish it maybe 3-5 times a year. I guess when I go on my Canoe trips right away in May and June, and have the fishing I do there it doesn't compare to Mille Lacs at all. The size of fish, the number of fish caught, the solitude (not around 30 other boats like on ML), and you have a shot at getting a true monster fish! But I guess I do the same thing for 3/4 to 1 lb+ bluegills and 12-16" crappies driving 2-3 hours for them, and the same for my canoe trips but I like the solitude and knowing I can have a lake to myself or know the others who are on the lake with me.

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Bluegill, if you don't mind me asking, where do you take your canoe trips in May and June that Mille Lacs can't even compare to?? Rainy? LOTW? Boundary Waters? Saganaw?

Good Luck, GoggleEye

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bluegill,

Seriously, how bad are you trying to stir the pot???

Bragging about eating walleyes up to 32"???

Come on, in this day and age, I'd think your just pulling our leg to get a rise out of people...

If not, then I'd like you to tell me if the mercury in your system is showing a rising or falling pressure for this weekend...

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Quote:

bluegill,

If not, then I'd like you to tell me if the mercury in your system is showing a rising or falling pressure for this weekend...


OK now that's funny!

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I question whether there truly is enough forage in ML. If you add up all of the fish that are caught and kept, with all of the angling pressure, these fish still keep hitting the bait that is in front of them....that tells me they are hungry. Especially the larger fish. When you have so many 25+ inch walleye, muskie, jumbo's, pretty large tullibee, as witnessed in the die off last year, the young forage base has got to be decimated. I saw numerous 28" fish pulled in at the WPT and all I can say is that they were scrawny, some 28" fish were barely above 7lbs. Now go to a lake such as tonka and the 28" fish there are just plain big, fat, broad and healthy. That tells me that they are eating good, regardles of the pressure. THe 24's that you are catching are quite impressive but it takes food to do that. The bigger fish cannot compete for the same forage with the younger fish. THis lake has been hot for years, what should that tell us?

When you go to many canadian lakes, the fish typically do not get real broad, part because they have a limited growing season, but also that the lakes are less fertile with what appears to be a shortage of baitfish. I personally think that the slot should be dropped to clear out some of the 23-26" fish as I can only imagine that they are eating a greater percentage of the forage. This would at least protect the newer year classes, those that continually get pulled out of the lake and also reduce the competition for the larger fish, allowing them to be more competitive for what food is available. Then, I think you would see an increase in larger fish.

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HAppenhook, maybe you need to fish ML for a while longer before you summarize their condition. I've caught lots of fatties and lots of torpedoes. ITS CYCLICAL!

Walleye size as well as perch often depend on the bug hatches, perch hatch, and competition within a given year class of fish. I've seen more healthy walleyes in ML over five pounds and up than any other lake in MN. The closest competition for walleyes is LOW and Red. I'm talking healthy fish, not strictly numbers.

Just look at the DNR's numbers on hours fished per acre and you'll see that Mille Lacs puts these fish out despite having tons more pressure. An eight pound walleye on Mille Lacs has virtually no chance of ever seeing your net unless someone was forced too or chose to let the fish go at one time.

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HAppnhook, I don’t agree at all. I have rarely caught a walleye on ML that is malnourished. Most of them are full. I would say that Gorilla has it right on. Of course the fish are going to have periods of time when they don’t eat or there belly’s aren’t full, but that happens right after spawn, during massive cold fronts and so on. I have fished all over MN and Manitoba. I will tell you that ML has no forage problem. Muskies, smallmouth and walleyes don’t get that big without good food sources. The size of these fish has everything to do with the amount of the fish that are taken out of the lake. As stated before about 1,000 walleyes over 28” were taken out last year. 1,000 fish is not exactly a case for bad forage, but rather, bad management. Put the fish back in the lake and let them get BIG.

As for getting rid of the slot, you have got to be new to fishing. Slot limits preserve the strongest reproducing fish. That is the reason for it, not to control forage (forage being a non issue on ML as far as I am concerned). If you start removing the 22-25” fish, you would kill ML. ML fishing pressure + decreasing the spawning potential = Dead Sea. If my math is correct, that is not exactly the best idea.

The DNR is not stupid, they monitor this lake very closely. They put the slot limit and lake specific limits in to protect the sustainability of the fishery. If we want to catch 10+lbs walleyes, that’s up to our own conservation efforts.

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You are WAY off, the eyes are very healthy and fat right now. About 4-5 years ago when the forage was very low some 28 inchers were less than 5 pounds that was sad. the lake is doing great right now.

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Have to agree 100 % with GoogleEyes & TRZ. Introducing the slot on Mille lacs was the best thing that happened to that lake. We must keep it!!! many years ago it use to be nicknamed "lake of the quarter pounders"!!!

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I stand corrected!!! You guys are good. I should have said, my impression after a full year back on the lake, IMO the fishery as a whole is in great shape, its just that there are so many 23-26 inch class fish that it makes me wonder what kind of long term, or even short term impact that can have on, in this case, the bigger fish. The 23 -26 inch classes look real healthy, and the 28" class appears to be lacking. Guess I need to choose my words a little better.

I had no problem catching 23's on up but saw a lot less than proportional share of 16'-20's, and 28+. I also spent 3-days on the water with PWT pro's and everybody struggled to get four "good" slot fish. Thats 1440 hours in three days collectively. Doc Sampson had his best days on the lake ever with close to 100 fish, yet he struggled for slots and for anything over 28. Suffice it to say in excess of 80% of his fish were between 21 and 28. These fish are the breeders and the eaters, it would appear that everything else is at a disadvantage.

I guess that perception is what I based my statement on.

One question that I do have is how close did we get to the DNR's target of fish taken out of the lake?

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Quote:

One question that I do have is how close did we get to the DNR's target of fish taken out of the lake?


Good question. I saw they released the #'s for Red (they were below harvest quota) so they must have the #'s for ML. Call the Aitkin Office and inquire.

Another point about forage and condition. When you cut up those non-slot fish, you ever notice how much condition (fat) they carry? Those fish are eating pretty good....Safe to say the large fish are eating well also.

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