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Keeter

Conflicting question......

18 posts in this topic

With the limited deer activity so far in the season I was thinking about what I would do if the first deer on stand that I saw was a small buck during the closing hours of season. I love venison but also believe in letting the young ones grow....that alone causes internal conflict with me. I am just curious to see what you guys would do. If you practice QDM but love venison....what would you do?

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I buy an All-Season liscense and try again during the Muzzleloader season.

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I passed up 3 does with aobut 4 fawns with them on opener w-end, I then passed up 3-more fawns the second w-end in Zone-2, there were 3 of us in our hunting party this year and we all strongly believe in QDM and we all got blanked this year. Needeless to say I will be buying the all season license next year and dust the Bow off and take a nice doe or two next year, If I was starving or grew up in the 1940's way up North when they shot deer for food and the dinner table, I would have taken all the fawns to fill our tags up. That's just my personal choice and I don't knock people who think differently too. Just remember all the shooting a person heard within hearing distance is the distance of all the deer in your area of a deer's range of 1-10-15 miles or so, just hope some spikes and fawns got spared for the years to come. Just my 2-cents.

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I would pull the trigger on the small buck, oh wait, I already did this year...venision is much better when you have a young tender deer...IMO...

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Vension chops are much better than tag soup!! I'd shoot him.

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Go with your gut feeling.

Personally, if it were my first year of bow hunting (which will be next year for me), I'd take it if it was the last day. If it were gun , I'd let it go.

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Quote:

I passed up 3 does with aobut 4 fawns with them on opener w-end, I then passed up 3-more fawns the second w-end in Zone-2, there were 3 of us in our hunting party this year and we all strongly believe in QDM and we all got blanked this year. Needeless to say I will be buying the all season license next year and dust the Bow off and take a nice doe or two next year, If I was starving or grew up in the 1940's way up North when they shot deer for food and the dinner table, I would have taken all the fawns to fill our tags up. That's just my personal choice and I don't knock people who think differently too. Just remember all the shooting a person heard within hearing distance is the distance of all the deer in your area of a deer's range of 1-10-15 miles or so, just hope some spikes and fawns got spared for the years to come. Just my 2-cents.


Actually, if you were really practicing QDM, you would have taken a few does and fawns. QDM is quality deer management, and you can not have quality deer management if you don't take out some does/fawns.

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Keeter,

Taking one or two small buck is still a part of QDM. QDM means keeping a healthy buck to doe ratio and culling enough deer so the environment can sustain the population.

Shoot and don't think twice if it is the only deer you see on the last day of hunting. With the lack of deer movement in your area, there are lots of deer not being shot. Therefore, it is mandated by QDM that you have to shoot that small buck. However, if you are practising BBM (Big Buck Management) and not QDM, then it would be wrong of you to shoot small bucks.

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"almostthere", we took 3 does and two nice bucks the year before. It's a person's personal choice what to take and when. One buck can breed a lot of does, I guess our QDM is working in our area when in the 15-years of hunting with our party we have taken 22-bucks with nothing under 8-points, we will have a new hunter next year in our party, "first timer deer hunting" and we will all be proud if he takes doe/fawn for his first deer. I guess if we start seeing less and less deear around we might have to rethink our QDM personal rules in our camp and if it's brown it's down and and see were that takes us the next 15-years.

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c&amagn,

It is a personal choice when it comes to picking and shooting deer. However, if you run QDM into the equation, there is a certain amount a bucks and a certain amount of does that you have to take out of the herd.

Our hunting area had the worst antlers on the planet. That was 3 years ago. We culled a whole bunch of deer (bucks, does, and fawns) and this year we took two of best sets of antlers we have ever seen. The problem was there was too many deer for the environment to support.

QDM does not change. What changes is the amount and sex of deer killed each year.

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It definitely is up to the shooter. This brings up a good conversation though. If you had the chance to do it absolutely right...what would you want, to see deer everytime out...no matter what they were...or to see fewer deer and see mature animals when you do. It seems like everyone has their own opinions and what they want out of their herd.

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Keeter,

If you are in a good spot and the deer herd is healthy, then yes you should expect to see at least one deer everytime: notice I said deer and not mature buck.

I eat what I kill and therefore I value each and every deer I take the same: all are trophies for me. However, if I am going to strive for a "head-on-the-wall" trophy, I would appreciate a buck from a land of very few mature bucks more than a buck from a litter of mature bucks milling around my treestand (like in some of the hunting shows taped in game farms). Now that is a "head-on-the-wall" I can be proud of.

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So what if you decide NOT to pull the trigger on the young buck, only to have him go down the trail to get dropped by someone who loves venison even more then you do? confused.gifgrin.gif

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webwarrior, isn't that the truth!! Although, the only one out there that loves venison more than me has four legs and is going to get shot if he walks past my stand too!!

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I, personally, have no problem with shooting a button buck or a young doe. Even on opening day. They taste better, and I hunt for venison. Not that I'd pass on a big buck, but I prefer young deer on the table.

I read an article some time back (I wish I could remember where so I could quote it) about shooting fawns. The main point that it made was that whitetails have a pretty high mortality rate during their first winter. In most areas, does have twins, and the study found that usually, one of the twins dies within its first year. Of course, there are exceptions, especially during mild winters, etc., but I'd rather see that fawn on a plate than dead in the field.

Ben

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Keeter,

I;ve seen it happen.. I'd sit in my stand, go all day and see nothing then wham! a 4 pointer walks by, I pass up the shot, only for him to get shot 100 yards later.. DOH!@ haha

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Get into archery so ya can start in mid-september and have a couple does in the freezer by the opener of rifle season!! grin.gifgrin.gif

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You aren't alone on that one warrior!! I had read an article in Deer and Deer Hunting mag that had said 92% of 6 month old fawns are bred. Not sure where they got that figure but I'll go with it. Anyway, the point of the article is that a fawn is a deer and will be bred and if you shoot one by the time you gut it and drag it the twin will be bred anyway.

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  • Posts

    • rundrave

      Posted

      I think you need to go back to basics. What you are trying to do doesn't have to be reinforced in just the boat.

      You need that dog to obey and listen to each command you give. If you are trying to get her to sit/stay then that's what you need to work on.

      You can practice and work on that command every time you open the door to the kennel to let the dog out. You tell her to sit/stay and you open the door. If she doesn't you know close the door and repeat.

      Every time you give your dog a bowl of food don't just give it to her make her sit/stay before she get its. There are  varieties of situation that the sit command can be used for. Start with small exercises and work your way up to bigger more complicated tasks, repetition, repetition repetition. Be sure to praise and always try to end work on a positive note. 

      I think the most important thing is don't give a command you cant reinforce.

    • Musky hunter 82

      Posted

      I made it out last night, saw a small buck and a nice doe at 20 yards but to quite to hear them and since I'm in some really thick stuff I didn't see them until they were on top of me.  Also saw another deer 40 yards away but couldn't tell what it was, then spooked something behind (not the direction the deer normally head to in the evening) me as I was getting down.  Almost had a Coyote in the CRP grass when I was walking out, big sucker and the second one see in two sits now (one by my wife and now by me), the land owner said that they are coming up on to his yard now.  I've hunted this ground for 12 years and this is the first year I've seen a coyote while hunting.

      Here's a couple of views from the stand, going to move it to the edge of the CRP field that is about 30 yards behind me.

      20160925_164858.jpg

      20160925_164902.jpg

    • paceman

      Posted

      Made it out for a very short sit Saturday Night. Thunder storms had my son and I scrambling for the truck. Our view. Lots of good deer sign in area. Early SE Corn.JPG

    • 750 this week only Im losing money on this but would rather have someone be able to use it than for it to just sit around. After this week I am going to winterize it and it will no longer be for sale.

    • How is she on the sit command?  That is the basis of everything.  She needs to learn to sit still and wait until the next command.  I don't even teach my dogs "stay" because it isn't necessary if they are solid on "sit".  Every dog has the ability to be steady, it is up to you to teach them.  A lab that isn't steady in the boat is not only annoying, it is potentially dangerous with loaded guns and the potential to capsize a boat in open water. 

      If she knows sit but just needs some reinforcement, it may just take a couple trips where you don't even bring the gun along and let others shoot while you handle the dog. 

      If she's real bad, I would recommend going back to the basics. It will be tougher with an older dog versus a puppy but is definitely worth it. Check out the retriever training DVDS by Bill Hillman. They are spendy but definitely worth it.

    • easyrider25

      Posted

      Looking for advice on keeping the dog focused and quiet in the duck boat.  Was out today and we shot enough ducks to keep her busy, however my dog is such a hyper hypo that it's a  little annoying.  Either whining or jumping back and forth from the front and back of the boat.  Do I just need to establish the expectation and keep on her till she finally gets it or is this how some dogs are in the boat? This is her 4th year duck hunting and she has continued to improve each season.  Overall I am happy with her work, especially with the limited amount of hunting I do.  We were out today for 3 hours, shot 8 birds and she did great on the retrieving end and is pretty much focused on the skies, but if something is not constantly dropping from them I feel like I have a screaming baby on my hands.  It's not really that bad, just very annoying.   I would just like her to sit in her spot, stare at the skies and wait for my command.  Is this to much to ask?

    • On 9/24/2016 at 3:30 PM, ZachD said:

      she's getting big

      She's up to 38 pounds at a few days short of 5 months and does not stop going 100 mph. She got exposed to a lot of feathers this weekend at duck camp. She retrieved dead ducks and geese in the yard after our hunts. The goose was a bit big so I chopped a wing off and worked with that after she picked it up and barely made it back a short distance to me. 

      1 person likes this
    • delcecchi

      Posted

      Maybe that is how they can stay in business 

    • flagislanddan

      Posted

      Fishing Report from Flag Island Resort Lake of the Woods, Northwest Angle 9/25/16

       

      Happy Fall!

       

      On the Minnesota side fishing has been great around Soldier’s and Mergan’s Point. Most points have been producing fish as well as bays due to shiners moving into the bays. Raps and spinners have been successful as well as 3/8 ounce jigs with the jig bite turning back on. Shiners, crawlers and fatheads have all been attracting the fish. The magic depth has been between 8 and 18 feet. The duck and goose opener has been successful with many resident birds still around we have not seen any signs of northern birds in the area. There have been many Woodducks and Mallards around.

       

      Over on the Ontario side the Walleye bite has been great and the Crappies are picking up. Anglers have been targeting fall spots and jigging in 18-28 feet of water. Emerald shiners are on the move to spawn so watch for them in channels and bays with creeks. The water temp is cooling down and is approximately at 62 degrees. Trolling for Muskies in 10-18 feet has also been good.

       

      The leaves are starting to change colors and there is definitely a chill in the air but, there is still plenty of time to get in on some wonderful fall fishing. The best part about fall fishing is some of the great wildlife you get to see out and about. Also, it is a good time to start thinking about your winter ice fishing trip, we would love to have you as our guest!

       

      Until next week, good luck fishing!

      Guides Dan Schmidt, Jeremy Glessing and Devin Rau

       

      Flag Island Resort

      218-223-8011

       

      14352408_10154027624047635_3217819021999145477_o.jpg

      14372283_10154027624017635_7564426901939642848_o.jpg

      14463040_10154032392587635_7055875993614459489_n.jpg

    • flagislanddan

      Posted

      Fishing Report from Flag Island Resort Lake of the Woods, Northwest Angle 9/26/16

       

      Happy Fall!

       

      On the Minnesota side fishing has been great around Soldier’s and Mergan’s Point. Most points have been producing fish as well as bays due to shiners moving into the bays. Raps and spinners have been successful as well as 3/8 ounce jigs with the jig bite turning back on. Shiners, crawlers and fatheads have all been attracting the fish. The magic depth has been between 8 and 18 feet. The duck and goose opener has been successful with many resident birds still around we have not seen any signs of northern birds in the area. There have been many Woodducks and Mallards around.

       

      Over on the Ontario side the Walleye bite has been great and the Crappies are picking up. Anglers have been targeting fall spots and jigging in 18-28 feet of water. Emerald shiners are on the move to spawn so watch for them in channels and bays with creeks. The water temp is cooling down and is approximately at 62 degrees. Trolling for Muskies in 10-18 feet has also been good.

       

      The leaves are starting to change colors and there is definitely a chill in the air but, there is still plenty of time to get in on some wonderful fall fishing. The best part about fall fishing is some of the great wildlife you get to see out and about. Also, it is a good time to start thinking about your winter ice fishing trip, we would love to have you as our guest!

       

      Until next week, good luck fishing!

      Guides Dan Schmidt, Jeremy Glessing and Devin Rau

       

      Flag Island Resort

      218-223-8011

       

      14352408_10154027624047635_3217819021999145477_o.jpg

      14372283_10154027624017635_7564426901939642848_o.jpg

      14463040_10154032392587635_7055875993614459489_n.jpg



  • Posts

    • rundrave
      I think you need to go back to basics. What you are trying to do doesn't have to be reinforced in just the boat. You need that dog to obey and listen to each command you give. If you are trying to get her to sit/stay then that's what you need to work on. You can practice and work on that command every time you open the door to the kennel to let the dog out. You tell her to sit/stay and you open the door. If she doesn't you know close the door and repeat. Every time you give your dog a bowl of food don't just give it to her make her sit/stay before she get its. There are  varieties of situation that the sit command can be used for. Start with small exercises and work your way up to bigger more complicated tasks, repetition, repetition repetition. Be sure to praise and always try to end work on a positive note.  I think the most important thing is don't give a command you cant reinforce.
    • Musky hunter 82
      I made it out last night, saw a small buck and a nice doe at 20 yards but to quite to hear them and since I'm in some really thick stuff I didn't see them until they were on top of me.  Also saw another deer 40 yards away but couldn't tell what it was, then spooked something behind (not the direction the deer normally head to in the evening) me as I was getting down.  Almost had a Coyote in the CRP grass when I was walking out, big sucker and the second one see in two sits now (one by my wife and now by me), the land owner said that they are coming up on to his yard now.  I've hunted this ground for 12 years and this is the first year I've seen a coyote while hunting. Here's a couple of views from the stand, going to move it to the edge of the CRP field that is about 30 yards behind me.
    • paceman
      Made it out for a very short sit Saturday Night. Thunder storms had my son and I scrambling for the truck. Our view. Lots of good deer sign in area.
    • ZachD
      750 this week only Im losing money on this but would rather have someone be able to use it than for it to just sit around. After this week I am going to winterize it and it will no longer be for sale.
    • MattL
      How is she on the sit command?  That is the basis of everything.  She needs to learn to sit still and wait until the next command.  I don't even teach my dogs "stay" because it isn't necessary if they are solid on "sit".  Every dog has the ability to be steady, it is up to you to teach them.  A lab that isn't steady in the boat is not only annoying, it is potentially dangerous with loaded guns and the potential to capsize a boat in open water.  If she knows sit but just needs some reinforcement, it may just take a couple trips where you don't even bring the gun along and let others shoot while you handle the dog.  If she's real bad, I would recommend going back to the basics. It will be tougher with an older dog versus a puppy but is definitely worth it. Check out the retriever training DVDS by Bill Hillman. They are spendy but definitely worth it.