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      Members Only Fluid Forum View   08/08/2017

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minnesotatuff

How will the low water affect the ice heaves?

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minnesotatuff    0
minnesotatuff

ok, thinking down the road a few weeks or so... but, i was wondering if the ice and structure being closer this winter might make the ridges more or less hazardous?

regards,

minnesotatuff

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tunrevir    86
tunrevir

The heaves tend to form more from the rapid expansion of ice and from floating plates that run into one another with the wind(kinda like tetonic plates and earthquakes) The shearing forces cause the ice to heave over one plate or another at the points where there is most resistence. The water being low may have some effect near shore due to more rapid freezing but I wouldn't think it would affect any of the deeper water structure. Wind shear and thin ice is one of the biggest factors to forming ice heaves as a sheet of ice in motion contacts a sheet of ice that is relatively stationary something has to give. Years where there is a slow decline in temps and a steady freeze without wind you will typically see better ice and less "heaving" but a rapid cool down or a substantial wind will increase heaving. Prolonged subzero weather can also increase heaving due to the rapid expansion of new ice as it forms. Heaves will typically form between points of constriction or areas of increased friction along the plates as plates move against one another. Hydrologically speaking that is! laugh.gif

Tunrevir~(low wind,gradual cooling=less heaves)(rapid cooling and/or with high winds =increased heaving) Large surface area with thin ice + high winds =use an access from the other side of the lake!) grin.gif

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minnesotatuff    0
minnesotatuff

thanks tunrevir, great explanation!

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SFBOY    0
SFBOY

an earthquake is a great explanation. i have been on lake of the woods when 50 inches of ice started to move. there was a huge shove that developed rather quickly. the ice was shaking and rumbling and the water was coming six inches out of the holes and back down. i believe that there are underwater waves caused by the plate over the top of another one. since water is essentially incompressible, the volume of ice being shoved under the ice displaces a roughly the same volume of water. depending on how long the shove is, how deep the ice is, where on the lake it happens, and how fast it happens the underwater reactions can be severe. the bottom of the lake is not going to give, so the only place for the displaced water to move is up. the water can literally lift the ice up and down. it is unnerving when you get on a big one. think of it as an under ice salami. wink.gif

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beer batter    0
beer batter

I just had to chuckle. Maybe tsunami? wink.gif

I hate waking up in the middle of the night, in the pitch black, when the ice shifts around.

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JollyT    0
JollyT

How about when you're sitting there in the quiet and you hear the rumble of a crack running across the lake? Then all of a sudden it goes pop, pop, pop, right through the holes in your house! I had a buddy dive out the door and flop on the ice when that happened! smile.gif

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Bobberboy    0
Bobberboy

I can't wait for all of the above to occur!

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papabear    0
papabear

only in MN can you get such a deep discussion about ice. Thank God.

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chris63    7
chris63

In the 90's superior froze all the way across one year.We walked out two miles at sunup and fished all day.Boy when that bugger heaves and shakes it makes low and millelacs seem like little kids.These guys were out on the lake (first time on ice)from California and when it started to move and crash they went running like Bruce Jenner.We were rolling the rest of the day.good times.c63 smile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gif

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chris63    7
chris63

How about pop,pop crack,crack oh what a relief it is,oh you get the jist..........come on cccOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!JUST WAITING.C63

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minnesotatuff    0
minnesotatuff

hahahaha...

ive never seen anyone react like that, but ive had a few heart stoppers.

regards,

minnesotatuff

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