Logged!

[snapcrackpop]

Looking forward to the gun opener. Dad called back last week after checking our(public area near Fourtown) hunting land. The mature poplars we hunt near was taken down recently.

Boy that stinks. They logged another spot in the area a few years ago and now it is all finger sized poplars!

Why cant the DNR leave a few mature woods alone. A person cant hunt deer or grouse in that junk. Sure, this year we can hunt the new clearing, but soon it will be thick brush like the other stuff.

They have marked a few more trees across the road where we also hunt and thoes big trees will be gone before spring.

At least it will be fun trying the new climber out.

[Powerstroke]

I hope you're not entirely serious about being mad about the logging. First of all its a manmade attempt at doing what mother nature used to do before man stepped in. Secondly, its the finger sized poplar that provide the food and cover to help develop the populations of deer and grouse that you love to hunt so much.

Try to find a way to hunt it. Create a small clearing with some shooting lanes and a ground blind. Or you can hunt on the outside edge of this cover. The animals will love it. It will be a great bedding area and you can hunt within 50yds of it you should have a great chance. Yeah it stinks to lose your tall trees, but its definately in the best interest of the forest and the wildlife.

[snapcrackpop]

I understand the need for logging, but don't see why they can't leave a few mature areas. Now after this year it will be ALL brush. Im talking about a 3-4 square miles of public land.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

yes it is frustrating, they were doing this heavly in our area last couple of years and now i think they're STARTING to slow down. we were at rate of finding new stands every year. I found a really nice area last year, but i think they're going to clear that out within a year or two.

like powerstroke said though, if you could make some shooting lanes in the popple, and can produce! that stuff is thicker than heck! i might actually make a long shooting lane this weekend...

[BobT]

Totally agreed Powerstroke! Those clear cut areas are a deer magnet! Too many believe that a mature forest is a better habitat than a new growing forest. Absolutely false!!! There's no browse in a mature forest because undergrowth is shaded out of existence. All that's left is grasses and wildlife needs far more. A young growing forest is a wildlife refuge beyond compare. Our favorite grouse haunts are 10-year old clear cut forests with plenty of young aspen. Can't beat it. The area we deer hunt was logged off about 20 years ago and we have enjoyed a 75% success rate for the past 15 years. That's outstanding considering the average in Minnesota's arrowhead is a mere 30% success rate.

Bob

Bob

[metrojoe]

I think 3 or 4 year old clear cut areas are the best areas to hunt. The deer and grouse love those young poplars.

[midwesthunter]

Our hunting property borders a clearcut. My stand is located about 30 yards from that clearcut and I see more deer out of my stand than any other hunter on our property. I believe this is because I am hunting next to a young clearcut. This offers the deer a lot of browse plus they feel secure in there because it is thick. Popple is a pretty cool tree because it grows so much in such a short time and because of this, holds its own against alder and other brush in the area. I would recommend creating some long shooting lanes in that stuff. Deer will tend to use these as walking trails also because deer like to take the easy route.

just my 2 cents

[snapcrackpop]

Okay, I get it.

I still think the could leave some big stuff.

Anyone want to lend out a Dr Mower?

The mess they leave behind is terrible, can barely walk the stuff without twising an ankle.

[Powerstroke]

As far as selective logging and leaving behind some mature trees, it depends on the species in the area. I know that in a state forest where I hunt, there has been logging going on in stages the last 10 yrs. The one saving grace is that our area has pines and oaks in it and the loggers were instructed to only harvest teh aspen. Now there are isolated oaks and pine trees in the new growth.

If your area doesn't have any other species besides aspen then it probably was all harvested.

[David Frank]

The black hills of SD are no different. At first I was upset to see the first logging trucks frequenting our area. Now I have realized the potential of these cleared out areas and can't wait to get back out there to see how things look.

[Craig_S]

Can't imagine why this one caught my eye... You've been given a gift. In my experience, deer travel lanes are long learned and extremely habitual. If deer crossed the logged area significantly in the past, this year they will still cross. Big bucks will be exposed like never before. You may have some long shooting, so get ready for some long shots. If you were prepared for 75 yards before, be ready for 150 this year.

As to the future, everything changes. It would have changed if logged or not. I hunt in the middle of the big 1995 blowdown in Clearwater county. Fortunately, I cut my timber just before the storm. Now it's thinning down and a 45 yard shot is possible from most stands. In the blowdown, it's still mostly impenetrable. Those tumbled down trunks take forever to rot if elevated off the ground.

So, change and adapt. In a few years you will be "bow hunting with a gun". And just as successful. If you're good.

Or find another spot to your liking. While your traditional spot is younger, there's someplace else getting older. That's logging and nature both.

Craig

[love to hunt]

snapcrackpop is right to a point. I know the area he is talking about as I hunt the same area. It is not just a little here and there. The cuts are 15,000 cord or more at a time leaving huge areas unusable for hunts. Then 3 years later the brush piles are cleaned up, its a mess. I have complained to the DNR about the mess and the loggers have up to 3 years to clean/burn the piles, and plant saplings.

I am the first to admit that logging is essential for game and a healthy forest, however the cutting he is describing is a little excisive.

They cut a stand one year and two years later the cut another and so on. It is getting harder to finds a place to hunt and a tree to hang a stand in.

I noticed my area is marked for cutting now and my only hope is that it is very hard to get to and maybe they will pass it by.

It wouldn't hurt to leave a little for the folks that use the land for recreation. As it sits it will be 20 years before that land is huntable again.

[PerchJerker]

I can sympathize with your hunting spot being screwed up, but I think there are few things you're not quite right on.

Quote:

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the loggers have up to 3 years to clean/burn the piles, and plant saplings

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You may be right about this but I have never heard it. And you said the area that was logged had been mature aspen. You do not plant aspen saplings. You clearcut aspen because you want the sun to heat the aspen roots/runners (that is why you have to clearcut, so the sun heats the ground). That breaks down a chemical in the roots and gets the aspen to regenerate. Since aspen is one of the best trees for wildlife and one of the best for timber value, many areas are clearcut with the goal of aspen regeneration.

Quote:

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They cut a stand one year and two years later the cut another and so on

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The guidelines to logging for the benefit of grouse and deer are to cut blocks of timber, approx every 5 years. These blocks can be as small as a few acres or as big as 100 acres. This creates age diversity and edges, things that are beneficial to wildlife.

Quote:

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it will be 20 years before that land is huntable again

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With a year or two after logging that area should be full of wildlife, especially along the edges. Sure, it will be thick, and you might not have big trees to put a stand in, but that is not the same as not being huntable. Scout around the logged areas and be willing to move a little from your traditional spot. Chances are good that you will have improved hunting from the logging.

Good luck.

[love to hunt]

I couldn't say if they were aspin or not but trees have been planted as they are all wrapped in a paper protector of some kind and neatly planted in rows.

When I called and asked how long before clean up was to be done the guy on the other end said they have 3 years to do it. True or not, I don't know. Some of the loggers clean up and plant right away and that is nice but there are spots where the brush piles are still there and it was cut 4+ years ago.

Otherwise I understand what you are saying.

[BobT]

Chances are that if the loggers have been required to clean up the leftovers and there have been seedlings planted, then this was more than just a clearcut. This was cut and is being managed for a particular tree farm.

One thing about aspen is that the leftover branches etc. will not take too long to deteriorate. The bark on these trees is very water tight and unless the bark is removed or the wood is split, it rots relatively quick by forest standards. I would expect that in the next 5 to 10 years you will see a significant change take place.

Bob

[snapcrackpop]

Thanks for all the comments, pro and con.

Thanks lovetohunt, at least someone else feels the way I do.

I will try to remember to take a couple of photos of the newly logged areas and the spots that were logged about 4 years ago when I get up there next weekend. "Dich 20" for the locals.

Man, it's less than 2 weeks now!

I'll try to take the pictures of the 3 red cabins also for that thread.

And some more for the "Report your kill" thread.

[Craig_S]

The situation seems a little confusing to me. 15000 cords is well over a section of land. The average cut size in Minnesota is 30 acres. Several sections is HUGE.

But there may be a reason for it. First, the "new" management schemes call for cutting entire stands. Cutting smaller blocks in large stands of old timber creates a lot of "edge" that favors predators. Some of the song bird folks and others are after big patch sizes on the landscape. Plus, if it's really old timber, there's little use in breaking it up. Exposing a new edge to old timber usually catches the wind and the remaining patches have very little integrity.

Second, you're getting pretty close to the prairie fringe there and the intention may be a large brushland management complex. The notion is to favor moose and sharptails, and large cuts do that.

But planting trees in the cuts makes no sense at all if sharptail is a goal. Sharptail hate conifers. Conifers hide predators and sharptail run like the wind if a pine is on the dancing ground.

I'd call the WMA at Norris Camp and see what the strategy is. Yes, it sucks that you have to switch deer hunting techniques, but I think there is a method to this madness somewhere!

Craig

[PerchJerker]

Quote:

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the "new" management schemes

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Could this be part of the "experimental forest plan" by Garber when he was DNR commissioner. Seemed like they wanted huge areas of straight rows of trees and nothing else ---- like some guys say, a nice quiet woods because you don't have any birds in there singing.

[Powerstroke]

I would agree that this area will be huntable next year if not this year. Saying it will be 20yrs is quite excessive. In fact, it will be easier to hunt the the next five years than it will the following 10yrs.

If they are replanting, then I owuld believe that its not so much for a tree farm type plan but more of a regeneration of a certain species. This was don'e not too long ago in Pillsbury State forest. All was burned and replanted within 2yrs. NOw there are lots of nice evergreens growing within a large tract of Bigtooth aspen.

Don't assume that the entire cut area will be replanted. Just cause it wasn't cleaned or replanted yet doesn't mean it will be. I'm sure you could talk to the area forester and get the skinny on the management plan for the area. As a local forester I know that having people be informed about my decisions and the actions we take is better overall. I'm sure there is a very good reason for the action. The DNR doesn't cut that much timber just to make a few bucks.

[Craig_S]

Well, that's an interesting view of past Commissioner Garber's theory. If fact not very conforming at all with my exposure to it. I put "new" into quotes because tomorrow will bring another "new".

The important thing to note here is land management decisions are loosely controlled by the social-political-economic triangle. The forces are in a state of constant flux. And land managers do the best they can to offer good biological decisions as influenced by the forces of the triangle.

You aren't the center of the triangle, I'm not the center of the triangle and occasionally a deer hunter is put off by what the triangle produced.

I suggest we all do the best we can to be informed and try and understand how we're all affected. Not just "you" or "me".

Craig

[PerchJerker]

I don't remember clearly any/many of the specifics about the experimental forest, but I thought they had identified tens (or hundreds) of thousands of acres and given it a 20-30 year management plan. The jist of it was long neat rows of trees, thinned so they grew tall and straight and fast, with no diversity for more efficient harvesting. At one time I had seen a map that identified where all these tracts of land were.

I thought you were referring to this when you called it a "new" management technique. The situation these guys described - a huge block of land cleared and replanted - seemed to fit with what I remembered about the experimental forest.

You say that's not conforming to your exposure to it. I freely admit I may be shaky on the details. Care to elaborate?

[matthothand]

My dad is logging 60 acres of his property and I am curious as to how the deer react to the change. It will be completed one week prior to the wisconsin firearms opener. I hope the deer only need a week to make their way back.

[Craig_S]

Nope!

But you can read all about it here.

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/forestry/demoforest/index.html

I'll add that I don't think there's been any activity with the board for a while. It may be dieing on the vine. But the concept seems like a good one to me. Too many people are far removed from our resources, and part of the idea anyway was to inform.

Craig

[Gordie]

I'm hunting a freshly logged aspen cut and cant wait the deer sign is unbeliveable and the trails fromm the hard woods are beaten down to this cut . The cut was made this past march and the sapplings are about three feet high and what a food source. Now to just pick the right location for my stand?

[snapcrackpop]

Here is a picture of the "gift". An area 250 by 500 yards.

Pretty disappointing opener. I saw NOTHING.

Can't walk the area without watching your every step.

The stuff that was logged a few years ago was never cleaned up either.

[NorthernMN]

I am sorry for you snapcrackpop. Yeah, I have heard many a logger say "It will be just like a park when we are done" OK. What park is that exactly? It sucks plain and simple. It has happened to me a couple times. You are basically left with nothing. Sure it will start to grow back but it will come back thicker than grass. You can't walk through it. You can't see through it. By next year it will al be 6 feet tall sapplings so close together you can't see 10 feet. Great cover but it sucks to hunt it.

[Outdoors_Junkie]

I hunt on the other side of Red Lake, south of Waskish. They do a lot of logging on the state land over in this area too. It seems like some of the loggers are better to the land then others. A lot of them pile up the brush/logs that they don't use and replant within a year. They even come back and cut down the brush a year or two later to give the pine trees a better chance to grow. There are a few that are NOT very good and leave a lot of trees laying all over the area they clear cut. It is difficult to walk thru those areas and not much for deer sign. They replant years later. So, I think there are a few loggers that abuse the woods. The majority are good.

[83walleye]

Have any of you noticed the dogwood plants in the regrowth? They're the red bushes - no leaves - that kind of grow up in a big bush-shaped formation. Man, do the deer love those dogwoods - next time you're walking through a yearold cutover, take a look at the tips of those dogwoods - each one is nipped right off out at the tip - deer love them!

[Craig_S]

Doesn't look too bad to me. There's always some stuff you can't get on a truck, and redistrubuting the slash on aspen areas helps protect site productivity by returning calcium. Calcium can be in short supply on NW Minnesota sites.

By the way, 250 by 500 yards is 25.8 acres. One square mile is 640 acres. I think your original estimate was 4 or 5 square miles of land? There seems to be some discrepancies...

Craig

[snapcrackpop]

Thanks for your reply.

I was referring to the size of the area we hunt 2mi x 1.5 miles and how they are logging off ALL the mature trees in that area.

These deer don't need more brouse the hunters need more huntable woods.

I don't have a problem with logging, just logging my area . Ha!